I’ve read a lot of the articles on T-mag and other places too. I just don’t think low volume is gonna work for me, it doesn’t really seem to work for many people unless you consider not even looking like you weight train ‘working’.
I’ll probably go with a 4 day split though, if it’s too much volume i’ll give restless’s routine a shot.
Restless: do you mean do Day 1, Day 2, Day 1? So i’d do it like mon/wed/fri?
thanks
[quote]Mon: Chest/Biceps
Tuesday: Shoulders/back/abs
Wednesday: Legs/Triceps
Thursday: Chest/Biceps
Friday: Shoulders/back/abs
Saturday: Legs/Triceps
Sunday: off [/quote]
Did you get this out of Arnold’s Encyclopedia?
If you’re not on juice, this routine will kill you.
One just remember your a begginer and you need begginers advise… I wish we find that theard Demo Dick worte a couple months back for begginers and newibies I can’t seem to find it. It needs to be put up for this guy again…
And probably to all newbies should read that thread…
Yes M/W/F…
To Restless:
Sorry, just found your first post a little confusing. I just wanted to clear things up. You’re probably right, he is gonna do what he want no matter what we say. M&F pollutes the mind. Believe me, I went through this about 8 years ago.
There’s really no need for such volume for a beginner. You are a raw beginner so any training at all is going to be an increase above baseline volume for you so just do what you need to do to start making progress…at this point, following a high volume routine designed for someone with 5+ years experience won’t give you any more results then a basic 3 day routine. The progression in bodybuilding is not linear. What I mean is…if a basic low volume routine along with a proper diet enables you to gain 2 lbs of muscle per week then doubling that volume isn’t going to double your gains. If anything all the extra volume will just increase your training setpoint so that in the future you may HAVE to train at higher volumes to make any gains at all where you could have just started basic and gradually built up from there as you grow.
Ok, well I guess the only reasoning for doing more high volume is… of the few people I know that are actually ripped (He’s 180 @ 6%, only been training 6 months or so) most use the higher volume. This guy used it from the start, he’s what he did: (well similar, i changed it very slightly)
Day 1: Chest, Triceps
Day 2: Legs
Day 3: Shoulders
Day 4: Calves, abs
Day 5: Back, Biceps
Day 6: Rest.
Day 7: Rest.
4 x 6-10 per exercise. (3 second negatives, pause, explode up)
1 Minute rest between sets for chest/shoulders/back, 1 1/2-2 minutes for legs, 30-45seconds for biceps/triceps, calves and abs 20-30 seconds.
=-Chest/triceps=-
Incline Dumbbell Bench, Flat Barbell Bench, Dumbbell Pullovers, DIPS
-=Legs=-
Squats, Stiffleg Deadlifts, Leg curls, Lunges
-=Shoulders=-
Military Press, Arnold Presses, Upright Rows, Front DB raises
-=Calves/Abs=-
Calve Raises
Weighted Crunches, Twist Crunches, Reverse crunches 3,2,1 TUT for abs
-=Back/Biceps=-
Palms Away Pullups, Deadlift, One Arm DB Rows, Shrugs
Incline Dumbbell Curls, barbell curls, Hammer Curls
Diet: I’m gonna aim for 300g+ Carbs, 250g+ protein and let fat fall where it does.
Restless’s split does look pretty solid. My goal isn’t for strength at all, only size. I want to see actual results in a year. I’ve done a little weight training before… in school we did the low volume full body stuff and the intensity was just never there. I love lifting weights and love the feeling of an intense workout. I think this is best for me right now. If i’m burning out and not gaining, i’ll probably try upping the cals then i’ll give restless’s routine a try.
thanks for all the replies, also any suggested articles (other than tmag, i’ve read most) for a newbie to bodybuilding?
ONE if you want to listen to our opinions… Listen to it. Why the hell are u following another newbies program when we are giving good advice here…
This is where u want to be for solid advice and information on training…
I wish we can bring up the thread that Demo Dick wrote for this I can’t seem to find. because this guy needs to read that thread over and over again…
Newbie’s advice? He’s actually pretty big, newbie or not… He got to 180lbs in less than 6 months from 150lbs. Now he’s in the 190-200lbs range at sub 10% bf. He actually competes in bodybuilding competitions… and i’ve seen his pictures, it’s not bullshit. good advice, as is yours i’m sure, but I just wanted to get your guys opinions of his advice too.
Hey ONE, everyone’s different. I for one do not recommend a full-body workout 3X a week, but I’m sure that would work for some. When I first started I got the same advice and it did nothing for me. Then I switched to basically what you’re proposing. It looked like:
Mon: Chest/Tris
Tuesday: Back/Shoulders/Bis
Wednesday: Legs
Thursday: Chest/Tris
Friday: Back/Shoulders/Bis
Saturday: Legs
Sunday: off
I went from 135lbs at 6’0" to 165lbs in 7 months. BF went from 7 to 9%. A friend did this routine with me and he gained about 25 lbs, while dropping BF. We were both beginners, neither of us on any kind of juice or prohormones. Just food and protein powder. I’ve put 5 other people that were total beginners on this program, and the worst of them gained 15lbs in 6 months. None of us have exhibited symptoms of overtraining. Since then I have gone from 160lbs to 202lbs at 10% on an even higher volume routine. No juice, some prohormone use.
Now everyone is different, and there’s no telling what will work for you until you do it. But counting myself I know of 7 people that got what I consider excellent gains on a program similar to the one you are proposing. Keep in mind that we were all beginners, and we were all in the 19-22 age range. Thought I just throw another experience out there. YMMV.
Here is my 2 cents,
this is the routine that works for me, and it’s relatively simple, takes very little time, and will train your whole body in only 2 days a week. You might have to make some changes to include shoulders. I had a serious shoulder injury and can’t train them directly with any kind of volume, but luckily my shoulders are the one part of my body that respond no matter what I do to them. Anyway, you will do this program 2 days per week, and you will eat everything that doesn’t bite back. You will do 4 groups of supersets, 2 sets of 8-10 reps each.
Incline bench press
Bent over Rows
Squats
Romanian Dead lifts
(Note, for this one, the squats is 1x20 followed by a light set of pullovers to strech your ribcage, then 1x15 for the RDLs followed by another set of pullovers…Don’t start too heavy on the squats if you haven’t been doing them, but you will work up heavy pretty quick, just keep at it)
Dips
Pulldowns (front or back)
Curls to the back of the neck
triceps pressdowns
This program worked for me, and I think it would put muscles on a pool cue, but…whatever. Best of luck
Damned, I posted a lenghty reply a couple of days ago but I think the server froze on me or something.
I recommend you read the HST article and Brya HAycock’s interview here at T-mag and maybe then you’ll understand what I mean.
That’s Bryan Haycock’s. This forum is still seriously missing a edit function.
That “edit” function would be nice, Restless.
Okay, fitone and One, here’s the post by Demo Dick. And I agree with you f.o., it’s worth reposting.
Read up, One!
"It seems that with the advent of T-Nation there are a LOT of new folks coming into the fold of the forums. This is mostly a good thing. I just wanted to offer a “Public Service Announcement” to some of you who may be trying the workouts and diets found in this wonderful magazine, as well as some of the underground information regarding the use of androgens for physique enhancement and/or athletic performance.
First, if you’re new to training, or even an experienced weightlifter who has never dieted specifically for fat loss, please “start small”. In other words, it probably isn’t a good idea to start Renegade Training or EDT while simultaneously doing the Fat Fast. You will likely burn out and get discouraged. You may even get sick. Start with something like Chris Shugart’s current version of the T-Dawg coupled with a reasonable training program. Eat correctly for your goals and activity levels, and be realistic. In other words, don’t expect to kick ass in the gym while dieting down, and don’t expect to go hypocaloric to put on muscle without at least a little fat gain.
Simultaneously, recognize that some of us are able to do take some pretty extreme measures to get to our physique goals. Some of us are not. There is variance in what works for us, and it is up to the individual to find the right coupling of diet and training to get to where they want to be. Not everyone can train intensely seven days a week, eat less than 100 grams of carbs a day, hold down a full time job, and manage family affairs. If you are someone who can’t, then modify your training program and diet accordingly. Exercise should enhance your life, not be a substitute for it.
Remember that no amount of supplements are going to make up for a shitty diet and half assed training routine, unless those “supplements” are of the illegal, injectable variety, in which case, you have no business using them in the first place.
Finally remember that you must be patient. Gains and physique changes will come in time. Newbies have it best. They see their bodies changing every week as a result of their efforts. The longer you do this, the more patience you must cultivate within yourself. You know the guy at your gym that put on 75 pounds of muscle in his first year of training? The one who doesn’t shower at the gym because of the abscesses in his glutes and the acne on his back? The very same guy who is at this moment noticing that one of his nipples itches constantly and is a little swollen and sore, and will probably end up on HRT for the rest of his life? Don’t be that guy. If you’re gonna juice, educate yourself and build a solid foundation first.
Hope everyone is getting where they want to be. "
I agree with Fitone
Full body workoutsthat Must include
bench press
bent row
chins
military press
squats
deadlift (or varitety)
Why?
Cause you will get big and strong on these.
Good form and posture on these exercises carry over to most other exercises.
total volume would be low so you dont burn up needed calories.
You dont have to do all of these exercise in one workout but at least once per week. Oh and why do you want to do so much chest work and bugger all work on you back? Your back is a little bigger (well should be!), and in my mind needs more stimulation, from different angle than the chest.
I don’t see what’s so great about that post. All it says is, some people can gain quickly (aka people who train hard) and some people cant (aka people who make excuses). And that a beginner should start slow–I agree, I’m gonna try using weight that I can be intense with but i’m gonna focus on form the first 2 weeks or so. It seems like the poster mainly posted that directed at people who wanted to easy way out – taking gear as a beginner, which I don’t want to do.
One - You have received a lot of good advice. You also have some good ideas of your own. Since you have set 1 year as your time period to see some significant progress, why not use most of the advice given, over that period of time? Most of my training splits for myself and my clients fit into a weekly pattern, rather than “3 on- 1 off” type of routines. Nothing wrong with those by the way, it’s just easier for some people to use M-W-F or M-Tu- Th-F type routines. However, you can and should mix up your splits from month to month. I would suggest training on each split/workout for 4 weeks at a time. In one year, you can do 11 or 12 of these cycles with 4-8 rest weeks strategically placed when you need them. Since you are a beginner, I would suggest that you try very hard to make sure your routines are balanced in regard to: pushing/pulling movements, and vertical/horizontal movements. In other words, don’t do 3 times as much volume for flat bench presses as for shoulder presses or rowing movements. Ian King has some excellent articles that explain this concept. If you don’t want to do legs that much now, fine, just apply to the same balance to your hamstring/quad training. I suspect that when you get into it after 6 months to a year, you will see more value in lower body training anyway and then begin to give it more effort. By the way, your lack of enthusiasm for lower body training probably explains why you don’t think full body workouts are very intense. If done correctly, meaning you squat or deadlift twice as much weight as you bench in every workout, you would probably see the point of some peoples posts who suggest full body work. I’m not giving you a hard time about this, just pointing out some things that seem to be true of many beginners. And I’ve worked with well over a hundred of them.
The take home message is - Don’t worry too much if one particular split is not perfect, because none of them are. You will only be doing each one for a limited amount of time anyway.
One here a few things that I think you need to lay out for yourself before you “get in over your head” as Demo Dick says:
Lay out your goals short and long term… That way you have something to shoot for.
Set a plan out for yourself. Take a look at all the suggestion that we have given you and plan it out.
Which brings to Progession. What I mean by progession is Bodybuilding, weightlifting is like everythingelse in life. You first learn to crawl, then walk, then run…
So what means start off w/ a 2-3 day low volume routine w/ compound momevents at 3x10 reps then work from there…
Finially in conclusion. When you have reached your goals always make new ones…
If anyonelse wants to add to this feel free…
I’m gonna do a 4 day split to start off with. My shor-term goal, by June, is to be 180-185lbs at under 10% bodyfat. My current weight is 170lbs.
Do you think I should go high carb/or just medium carb? I was going to shoot for 300g+ carbs, 250g+ protein but I might do ~200g carbs and 250g protein. Fat will probably fall around 80g’s or less. I think that totals out to around 2500 calories–I think that might be good to start with since I barely eat anything now. If i’m not gaining or body composition isnt changing, i’ll add cals. Would it be better to add carbs or fats if i do that?
thanks
dcb, do you suggest I change my routines monthly even if i’m still making solid gains?
One - Good question. The answer is yes/it depends. Even as a beginner I wouldn’t advise you to stick to one program for more than 6 weeks, and this is at the VERY outside edge. Only do that if you’re very happy with your progress. However, let’s say that a month goes by and you’re happy with your program, so you stick with it 2 more weeks, but your gains kind of slow down during those last weeks. Looking back, you would be kicking yourself a little for not changing it up after a month. If you wait until a program runs out of steam, then you’ve stuck with it too long. Better to get with something new before your current routine stops yielding gains. As you progress through the year, and years after that, you will find that you adapt to programs at a faster rate.
The other issue is injury prevention/joint pain. Performing the same motions week after week can lead to pattern overload, which can cause severe joint pain. Do a search on “pattern overload” if you want. Changing your workout more frequently will lessen your chance of encountering this problem. The number one example of this is most male newbies overuse of the flat bench press. I’m not saying “don’t bench.” Just change the angle, and grip, as well as your equipment from month to month (barbell vs db’s). When you read “injury prevention” you may be thinking “so what, that will not happen to me.” Trust me, you will experience pain from time to time that slows down your progress. The more you can avoid this the better for gettin’ big. That reminds me, make sure to put some rotator cuff work into your program.
You need more than 2500 calories. Way more I would say, as long as your % body fat isn’t too high right now. 250 grams of protein isn’t bad. Go back and reread Berardi’s articles on nutrition for gaining mass. That will give you a lot of insight into how many calories you need and what kind of carbs and fats to look for.