Nice. [quote=“bulldog9899, post:39, topic:219700”]
was it right or wrong who could say at the time.
[/quote]
Who gives a fuck lol. You got him the results. That’s what matters. This is exactly why I used to just tell beginners here to go find big and strong guys in the gym to train with instead of musing about optimal programs and stuff but apparently no one wants to hear this lol.
I just threw that statement in because I figured someone would question my reasoning for doing it ,since a few may call it blasphemy that I didnt stick 100% with the all Holy 5x5.
FYI …not done yet. My approach with him has gone through many phases. It going to take another 2 post to get through it.
To be honest i would be remissed if I didnt use the experience Ive gained under the bar not to use it to help my son succeed in his goals.
Quick question you a older guy? If so you might know what im talking about… When I started going to a actual gym in my youth. We are talking real late 80,s FUCK IM OLD. Back when the gyms where a little more Hard core and more Mom and Pop type of business and not so commercial as today. You made Friends with the Biggest baddest Son of Bitches their hope they would take you under their wing and didnt eat your sorry ass. Dont recall allot of talk about optimal programming going on there back then.Pretty much lost that when the internet came along … not to mention the heavy rise of commercial gyms and those independent gyms went bye bye.
I’m 37 this year. That’s exactly how I started training in the mid 90s but I lived in a pretty backwards part of the world at that time so it was probably like the 80s anyway lol. It was basically common sense back then. Lift heavy to build mass. Even when doing bicep curls. Feel the intended muscles working. Use isolations to pump up and fully fatigue the muscle at the end. That’s it. All we did were bodypart splits. Nowadays in Internet Land, these guys would be the last people you should listen to since they got big in spite of what they were doing.
OH yeah…you know where IM coming from!
I would emphasize form and the mmc. I started as a teen lifting heavy without feeling the muscle work. I feel that one of the first programs listed 4x8 or 3 x 10 would be good to teach the mmc and feel of moving the weight with muscle and not just momentum and force. This way you get mass gains as well as strength gains. After 6 months to a year I would have them switch to a strength based program. Unless there goals were strictly for aesthetic purposes. Plus noob gains will come from any style of progressive overload so might as well hammer home form and mmc emphasis
@dt79 little slow on my end on the write up…Got my son doing a meet in three weeks . ill throw the video up in here. Heres a video him on the Mat from this past wrestling season …mind you hes a little scrawny from the conditioning. currently his weight is about 15 -20 lbs back up from the season
I’m pretty much convinced when @T3hPwnisher talks about getting beginners to take up a sport before starting to lift or at least while lifting and I think you believe this too. This probably wouldn’t be as important if it was still the 80s and 90s and younger guys were more active imo but it seems the xbox has replaced a lot of physical stuff we did when we were kids.
Any of you can suggest how this would be approached in application to this thread, i.e, how would you do it if you were to train the guy personally?
For me anyway I really prefer working with someone who has at least been active in a sport . Mostly because they have a foundation you can build on and i find its easier than someone who has never been physically active in their life. Now for clarification… I dont train people as a profession, I also dont seek people out either in my area but they tend too gravitate my way. I tend not to get people whom want to lose 10 lbs or just be fit.Last guy I worked with is seriously into Spartan racing and needed some simple strength training. I have a MMA guy wanting me to take time and help him put meat on his frame. So im lucky in the fact I tend to get self motivated people whom have a competitive streak. Which i think that one of the big pluses … Go into your average fitness physicality and look at your average person whom have never been in active with any type of sport. By my observation they seem unmotivated , unfocused and dont seem to have allot of drive. That is the one thing that having them involved in a sport helps to develop. I know in the past that im terrible working with people who dont have some sort of sporting back ground . Im just not the type who can play cheer leader for them every second…
I don’t think the sports thing is as important as being conscious of the things you need to do to address the fact he/she hasn’t ever played sports.
Like, if he’s been a bit of a pasty nerd, hunched over a computer all his life, he’s going to have mobility deficits and weaknesses that a person who’s been athletic isn’t going to have.
If someone decides one day to hit the gym and get swole, trying to convince them to play lacrosse or some shit for 6 months before they’re allowed to pick up a barbell will be a hard sell.
But how do you teach this pasty nerd intensity without making him snort coke or holding a gun to his pet bunny’s head while he squats?
that’s a good question, and honestly I can’t really answer it but I do think that if someone wants it badly enough then the intensity thing will just come naturally to them.
Yeah, this is all purely theoretical. I know from experience that, if someone decides they want to lift weights, they’re not going to buy into the idea that they should get into shape before they do it. I’ve actually seen the idea mocked pretty often, even by contributors to sites like this. We just have it in our heads that lifting weights IS how you get in shape.
In truth, if I had someone who had no sports background want me to train them, I’d simply say it was beyond my capability, because it really is. I don’t know how to teach all that stuff. If someone had a sports background, I’d know how to work with them. Like @dt79 said; this wasn’t a problem that existed when I grew up. Hell, I was a fat kid growing up, and I still played A sport year or physical activity round from age 9 through high school.
Dave Tate had another solid attempt at solving this problem in his “Education of a Powerlifter” series
To summarize; you take a new guy and you make him “train” with the morning crew. Their job is to load plates. You do this for a few months, and by the end of it the guy has moved enough weight by loading plates that they’re ready to start pulling a sled and getting the basics done.
I think if you did this with a big crew of strongman guys, you could pull it off. Setting up events IS a workout, and you’d get plenty athletic just doing that for a while. But, again, it’s “bitch work”, and you can’t really sell it to a guy who just wants to lift weights.
Great from a training approach - terrible business model.
Would your training approach change if the goal was purely aesthetic?
I ask because I have trained younger guys that wanted to “look good naked” and quite few did not want to put in hard work or should I say did not want to do the tougher exercises i.e deadlifts, etc.
I found that keeping rep ranges above 5 reps at an RPE of 7-8.5 kept them going and honestly brought on better progression in strength and muscle…
Speaking purely for myself…
Very very slightly on the training approach…core Philosophy I base my training approach on not a chance in hell.
Im not even sure what people mean anymore when they say when their goals are just aesthetic anymore…other than they want to resemble what ever look is currently in vogue at the time. Use to guys wanted to look like Brad Pit in fight club… than like MMA guys now im guessing more like NPC physique guys…Heck if I know.
Now if my son decided he wanted to actual step on a stage I would program some direct body part specialized work to bring up a lagging body part…
Me personally I think some guys use the excuse to justify why they wont use harder compound movement…even if it might speed up the process of adding lean muscle onto their frame . Which some will agree will make them “look good naked” as long as they dont have excessive amount of Body fat.
Dont say that!!! Your not suppose too be able to add strength and muscle at the same time!!! 
Real talk, is there anything more to dieting when you aren’t cutting other than: hit a minimum amount of protein, eat a balanced amount of carbs and fats, eat a ton of protein/carbs/calories before, during, and after training?
I really like the idea of having someone gain a basic level of fitness through sport and body weight exercises before moving to weights. It’s not like it’s a must, but teaching form to someone with an athletic background is so much easier than your regular couch Potatoe.
I couldn’t agree more with people in this thread about just going and finding some big guys to train with. Newbs really need to realise that 90% of your progress comes from the following things.
I know a lot of people on this site have a massive “thing” for 5/3/1 and I can kind of see why. Not saying everyone must do it, but if instead of a newbie program hopping every 2-3 months looking for the next best thing… What if they just got in a proven program like 5/3/1 and stayed on it, consistently, for years, how much more progress they would have made and how many dumb question could have been avoided? I like the way wendler preaches stop majoring in the miner, if your young you have loads of years to make progress… And if you stick to just hammering what’s most important consistently you will make fantastic gains.
Consistency is the only thing that works for 100% of people 100% of the time. If you can’t say that for the last 3 months you have not missed a training session or meal. Then there is the reason for you lack of progress… Not because your not doing a fancy program or aren’t using the latest supplements. It’s because you have not been consistent with the factors that are the most important.
End of rant lol.
My son just turned 14 so I’ve started taking him to the gym.
He really has no athletic history other than some organized soccer some years back.
Our workout is Dan John’s 40 day program (DL, OHP, BB rows, KB swings, and a carry) and some arm isolation work for a finisher so he can see some quick results in the mirror.
Nutrition is a protein shake with natty PB on top of whatever else he’s eating.
He many not continue with lifting but I feel knowing how to spend a productive hour in the gym is a life skill like throwing a ball, shooting a basket, or changing a tire.