T Nation

Young-ish and Very Active; I Think I'm Low



-age: 31
-height: 5’8
-waist: 30
-weight: 157
-describe body and facial hair: moderately hairy chest and torso, lots of leg hair; somewhat patchy beard, though not noticeably patchy when I let it grow out

-describe where you carry fat and how changed** never used to carry any fat, really. Now some at sides and a lot in thighs/butt

-health conditions, symptoms [history]: ADD

-Rx and OTC drugs, any hair loss drugs or prostate drugs ever: Nothing Rx right now other than an anti-inflammatory; no on hair loss or prostate drugs. Was on anti-ADD medication on and off for a few years.

-lab results with ranges: right now, just Total T of 305 with range being 170-800 (LOL). Doctor said my 305 was normal. Previously tested at age 27 or 28 at 370 and the doctor said I was low then, but didn’t provide a range.

-describe diet [some create substantial damage with starvation diets]: caloric deficit right now; 120-150g protein a day, mostly from beef and chicken, and everything else is just decent carbs and fats

-describe training [some ruin there hormones by over training]: sprinting 3-5x a week; weights 2-3x a week

-testes ache, ever, with a fever? No

-how have morning wood and nocturnal erections changed: still get morning wood on most days.]

I went for an all-around checkup a few weeks ago. The doctor, at my request, pulled some blood to check my T-levels. She then told me to come back in 4 months to discuss.

I was getting anxious so I called to see about the results today. The doctor told me I was perfectly normal - 305ng.

I asked if that wasn’t the low end of normal.

She said that the normal range for a male was 170-760, so I was right in the middle in her eyes.
I blinked and said okay and ended the call shortly thereafter.

I do just about everything lifestyle-related you can think of: I sprint semi-competitively and thus run every day to every other day, I weightlift heavy compounds 2-3 times a week, I sleep 8 hours a night (sometimes interrupted by my baby, but I’m actually in bed for about 9-10 hours). I supplement with zinc and D3 and a few supplements for muscle-building.

My sex drive has gotten abysmal lately (after a brief unexplained surge a few months back, I find myself almost never initiating; maybe once every 1-2 weeks!). I’m having a hard time losing fat without losing muscle. My track times are not what they should be. My focus - always bad because of ADD - is atrocious and I have a hard time getting any work done. I feel fatigued at the office. Etc.

Like everyone here, I’d rather simply be blessed with skyhigh natty levels. The thought of being dependent on a cream or injection for the rest of my life scares the hell out of me. But if I’m at 305ng as a super active 31 year old, who am I going to be at 35? 40?

Am I way off base here? My test was not in optimal conditions: I had two cups of coffee and no meals at that point and got tested in the early afternoon, rather than the morning. But 305 seems awfully low for someone at my age.


Get a new doctor. 305 isn’t anywhere close to normal for an active young man.


Thanks, gigem.

I’m not sure if I should just call in to another general practitioner, or find a specialist, or what.
In my teens and twenties, I had a pretty absurd sex drive - when I noticed that flagging a few years ago, I chalked it up to the new career (attorney) and tried to ignore it. I suppose it’s partly a normal part of the aging process, but it seems like I went from (indicators of) high testosterone to low low testosterone in a short period of time.

Depressing. I called an endocrinology clinic, but they’ll only take referrals. So unless I go ahead and find a new one, I’d have to convince my doctor - who thinks my testosterone levels are just dandy - that they warrant more scrutiny.


Where are you located?
Wild ass guess: Halesowen

Get all of your lab results and post with the lab ranges.

In the 2nd post of the first topic in this forum, follow these links:

  • advice for new guys – provide more info about you
  • things that damage your hormones
  • finding a TRT doc

Any illnesses or accidents a few months ago?
Blow to the head?
Started any medications? [OTC or Rx]
Change in exposure to chemical or fumes at work?

Many here have low T and low thyroid function.
Did you stop using iodized salt months ago?
Do you now get cold easier.

CBC with hematocrit
fasting glucose
fasting cholesterol

Check you oral body temperatures to eval your overall thyroid function:

  • when you first wake up, should be 97.7-97.8, higher is OK, 97.3 is a problem
  • also check for 98.6F/37C mid-afternoon


Yeah, thanks KSman. I’ve been browsing through and noticing how incredible a help you are to everyone here.

Location: Yoknapatawpha County (Actually one state over - Louisiana)
I’m picking up my labs today. The doctor said they tested serum testosterone only, not free. I’m obviously going to have more labs done.

  1. Illnesses/accidents in the last few months? No.

  2. Blow to the head? No. Many when I was playing football ( ages 12- 23)

  3. Started any medications? No. Just added some supplements to my stack - Zinc (which seemed to presage the sudden boost in sex drive), D3 (1000 IU/day), HMB (ClearMuscle by MuscleTech), Phosphaditic Acid (via soy lecithin granules).

  4. Change in exposure to chemicals/fumes? No.

  5. I have never thought about iodized salt. I’ll check in.

  6. Cold easier? Not that I noticed.

  7. Lab tests: I think only serum testosterone was measured out of what you listed and I’ll need something more specific next time.

  8. I’ll check body temps.


5’8, 158, 10-11% bodyfat. I’ve got a beard, a bit patchy (not terrible). Very hairy legs, a little bit of hair on the chest. I’ve actually gotten stronger in the past few months despite not putting on much visible muscle mass. Chalk it up to increased CNS recruitment.


Read everything you can from KS man, click the top thread and read everything you can. It can be hard to find a doctor. Look up “compounding pharmacies” in your area then call and ask if they deal with doctors who write prescriptions for Test, hCG and aromatase inhibitors. Ask for a list of doctors, check their websites and give them a call. Hopefully you can find one that knows what they’re doing. Post all your lab work here for KSman. Do a ton of research.


Been working on researching everything.
I’m in the bottom 5% of men my age, despite doing just about everything possible to keep my levels up.

After calling around, I’m seeing a urologist today. I am honestly scared. I grew up with what I assume were high testosterone levels - insatiable sex drive until my mid-20s, facial hair very early, lots of sports, pretty strong for my size (though that speaks more to muscle fiber-type distribution I think). Now I’ve got the testosterone level of an 85+ year old man. I hate feeling weak and neutered. But I also want more kids and fear dependence on exogenous hormones for whatever reason.

I’'ll keep reading and also update this after my appointment.


Where are body temperatures?


I realized when I got home that my wife took the thermometer with her on a trip back to see her parents. She’ll be back this afternoon with it. I’ll get it then - thank you for reminding me.


Apparently we don’t have an oral thermometer, only this surface one for the baby. My temps came out in the mid-98s but I want to re-do it with an oral.

Visited a urologist today. He did not seem terribly knowledgeable but told me he’d recommend Clomid for a guy my age…but that he does not prescribe Clomid and I’d have to wait 3 weeks to speak to a doctor at the clinic that does.

I asked why Clomid over Nolva. He didn’t give a real answer.

He said he’d recommend against TRT at this stage because I still want kids. I asked if HCG would preserve fertility to some degree. He didn’t give a real answer.

I asked if it mattered what the cause for the apparent Testosterone crash in my mid-20s was. He said it did not.

I’ve got an appointment with the other doctor in 3 weeks. Time to keep spinning my wheels with my sprinting and weightlifting training until then. I’m sure he’ll order more tests, tell me to come back in another month or two, then delay some more.

This is my life and my health - both physical and mental. It seems like I’m fighting for it and everything else is working to delay any treatment.


A Sisyphean task.

I started TRT at 22 years old. You can check out my explanation of my TRT experience since, my dos centavos if you will, on the matter in my vid here.


A single blood test doesn’t mean much due to random natural variations, interrupted sleep the night before, etc. You cannot be diagnosed with low T until confirmed by follow-up tests. They also have to be morning tests (before 9 or 10 I think) after a good night’s sleep for comparison with standard ranges, since everyone has lower T in the afternoons, so an afternoon test is not valid for diagnostic purposes. Also, there are studies indicating new fathers naturally have lower T levels. This is temporary.

Athletic training, especially endurance training but also excessive weight training, is known to cause lower T levels.

It is easy to oversupplement with zinc and cause problems for yourself that way. Also, zinc should never be taken without copper in the appropriate proportion.



My T was last tested in 2011 or 2012. Morning test, I hadn’t been working out much at that time. I believe my number was 370 back then.

I take a multi with copper in it, possibly not enough.

I think I’ll go get a full profile done before my next scheduled appointment.


Great video. The “natty” discussion is very interesting. Thanks.


Thanks for the feedback. You’re welcome.


Okay, on my own initiative I went to get a full blood panel to present to Uro #2. I’m sure the people here will be better at interpreting the results than him though.

This is really such a mind-bender for me. In some ways, I’m extremely excited.
I suppose I won’t immediately see the results of regular T levels - I’m not going to instantly go from the back of the pack to the front with my running. I’m internally debating using a SARM to make up for lost training time. Any advice on that front would be welcome.

I’m also not sure if I can expect any “recomping” effect. I know some guys experience simultaneous fat loss + muscle gain when they boost their T levels to the normal range, but I’m not sure if it’ll work for a guy like me who has been training his butt off for years and is already at 11%. Thoughts?


@KSman, let me know if I’m totally off here?

I’m considering expatriating in a few years, to a rural central American area, once my family saves some money up. I’m 31 now.

Right now, as mentioned, the clinic I’m going to is apparently likely to put me on a SERM at the end of the month. But if I’m like everyone else here, I’ll be moved swiftly to the gel, and finally injections. With this in mind, I’m leaning to trying to just skip the preliminary steps and go to injections now.

If I ex-pat, I doubt I’ll have consistent access to injectable T. So I might have to try a re-start before I go.If I’m 35-40 when I do, I don’t know if I qualify for still being part of the “younger guys’ game” you mention in the 1st post of the HPTA Restart thread.

I’m not sure if I should let that dissuade me now.

If I’m on injections for 5-9 years (and doing everything during that period to maintain testicular function as best as possible), are my chances for a restart good? Not to great levels - just something between 100 and 300 (I’m at 305 now). Something above 0.

If the chances are decent, I’d try to do the restart about a year in advance of the move and gauge results. If nothing happens, I’ll think about expating to a more metro area.

I know there’s probably not good stats on any of this, but I’d be interested to hear even informed speculation.


Here are partial results, with E2, Total and Free Testosterone all still pending:



Ok, latest labs complete (summary of previously-posted stuff along with results that came in this morning):

Total Testosterone: 362 ng/dl (Range: 250-1100)
Free Testosterone: 79.7 pg/ml (Range: 35.0-155.0)
Estradiol: 14 pg/ml (Range: < or = 29)
TSH: 4.71 mIU/L (Range: 0.40-4.50)
T4, Free: 1.2 ng/dl (Range: 0.8-1.8)
HDL Cholesterol: 37 mg/dl (Range: > or = 40)
Glucose: 100 mg/dl: (Range: 65-99)


This test was done earlier in the day than my one that came back at 305. I’m worried that the doctor is going to think 362 (in bottom 5% of men my age, according to Vermullen), is too high.

E2 is…low? Symptomatic of low total t?


My last bump here until next week, when I get LH and FSH numbers. Anyone with thoughts pleasseee chime in.

Comparing my numbers to others on the board:

TSH is high, I’m not sure I’ve seen anyone with TSH as high as mine yet. Obviously something going on there. So secondary hypogonadism and hyperthyroidism?

E2 is low, not sure I’ve seen on here with E2 as low as mine.

Total test for my morning test (362) looks to be on the mid-high side of things for this forum, though I guess I’m young for the group.

Free test looks to be low though maybe not proportionally low, relative to my total test? Free T = 2.2% of Total T.

79.7 on Free T is below the median (95) for the listed lab range, as is Total T (675). I can’t tell if my instinct is right that the Free T is less bad or not, given my weakness with numbers.