T Nation

You Sure Ali Would Beat Tyson?

I’ve seen ali fight, but tyson just seems like he would rip ali apart. literally…http://youtube.com/watch?v=8KemCbR-zGw

Tyson never beat anyone worth a damn; and some of the guys that beat him wern’t exactly the best fighters of all time. To name a few Buster Dougeless and Holyfield. One the other hand, Ali beat Foreman, Frasier (who I like beter than Ali), Liston, etc. THERE IS NO COMPARISON!

[quote]Beauzo wrote:
Tyson never beat anyone worth a damn; and some of the guys that beat him wern’t exactly the best fighters of all time. To name a few Buster Dougeless and Holyfield. One the other hand, Ali beat Foreman, Frasier (who I like beter than Ali), Liston, etc. THERE IS NO COMPARISON![/quote]

Ali beat Foreman by simply outlasting him. He didn’t do it because of greater strength or even greater skill. He took hits until he tired him out…because Foreman was all power but less endurance. His strategy saved his ass. On someone like Tyson who would possibly keep coming (if based on nothing but insane rage), I think he would have his hands full.

Ali never fought “fucking crazy”.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Ali never fought “fucking crazy”.[/quote]

I agree with that quote completely. However, as far as outlasting opponents, I definitely give the edge to Ali. Tyson was so quick to KO boxers, he had problems once his fights lasted into the later rounds.

I think it would be closer than people give Tyson credit for, but I still give Ali the edge.

In his prime, Ali moved like a middle weight. I’ve never seen anything since. And like I’ve said, Tyson never really fought anybody and definitely never beat anybody.

Can you imagine Ali taunting Tyson pre-fight? Tyson would be so mad he wouldn’t be able to see straight. Ali would have Tyson right where he wanted him.

Tyson was a great boxer even though many see him as strictly a knockout artist. He was so good at knocking people out that he would have been silly not to go for the KO in the opening rounds. However,when he didn’t get the easy KO he could become frustrated.
Ali would have taunted him mercilessly before the fight and frustrated him in the ring. I don’t think it would have been a walk in the park, but I would definitely give Ali the edge.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Beauzo wrote:
Tyson never beat anyone worth a damn; and some of the guys that beat him wern’t exactly the best fighters of all time. To name a few Buster Dougeless and Holyfield. One the other hand, Ali beat Foreman, Frasier (who I like beter than Ali), Liston, etc. THERE IS NO COMPARISON!

Ali beat Foreman by simply outlasting him. He didn’t do it because of greater strength or even greater skill. He took hits until he tired him out…because Foreman was all power but less endurance. His strategy saved his ass. On someone like Tyson who would possibly keep coming (if based on nothing but insane rage), I think he would have his hands full.

Ali never fought “fucking crazy”.[/quote]
yep, i saw a special on that fight once. ali did the infamous lub dub against the ropes until finally, foreman was too tired and ali just went at him. too bad for foreman though, he went into a state of depreciation for an incredibly long time. then made his comeback with his grills.

but i have another question for u guys: if tyson kept hitting ali, wouldn’t he eventually tire ali out? it seems like hes one of the most powerful boxers alive.

Tyson would knock Ali the F$CK out …No contest .Ali might dance around ,But make no mistake Tyson would manage to hit him ,and then the only thin Ali would be able to recollect about the fight would be how many lights were above the ring…

Tyson’s idle is Sonny Liston. Cause he was a bad scary man and one of the hardest hitters on the planet. Ali was 7-1 underdog in their first fight when Ali was 22. Liston used low blows rabbit punches, head butts and put resin on his gloves and rubbed it Ali’s eyes. Ali still beat him.

In the Foreman fight…Foreman wasn’t exactally out of shape - to say he gassed isn’t really accurate. Ali had put him in a frame of mind were he thought he just had to catch him and then Ali insulted him in the ring with a flurry of right hand leads. Of course he saw red and went for the pummelling. Foreman trained on a specially strengthened and weighted heavy bag - he used to dig holes in it with his gloves. This is what Ali absorbed for 8 rounds almost without response (apart from further taunts) before knocking him out.

A lot of Tyson’s opponents were beaten before the fight began - look at their eyes in the square off. Ali was the master of psychological preparation. Anyone getting in the ring with Ali would have had 8weeks of brainwashing first - Tyson wouldn’t stand a chance, in fact his mental breakdown would have come a lot sooner - in the ring!

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I do not see why Tyson would not have given Ali a tough time.
I mean Ali had a tough time against Doug Jones, Chuvalo, Mildenburger, lost to Frazier and Norton. Later Wepner and Jimmy Young.
I am talking about prime Tyson 1986-1990, not post Buster Douglas. Depends which Ali you pick also before being stripped of his boxing license or after being reinstated.
Tyson was not just power he had some of the quickest hands for a heavyweight ever. He also had great skills, under-rated defense(which was very good) and an under-rated jab(which also was very good). He threw in combinations and could go for 12 rounds if he had to. His chin was very good and he was just a warrior. If Floyd Patterson gets respect then Mike Tyson definetely deserves the same for his boxing ability and achievements.
Foreman tired himself out against Ali, watch a hw fight these days and count how many punches are thrown. HWs historically don’t throw as many punches as their counterparts in lighter weight classes, because they get tired. If you have ever boxed you would know that trying to throw hard punches for three minutes against a live opponent is extremely tough.

[quote]GERRY.P.SHARMAN wrote:
Tyson would knock Ali the F$CK out …No contest .Ali might dance around ,But make no mistake Tyson would manage to hit him ,and then the only thin Ali would be able to recollect about the fight would be how many lights were above the ring…[/quote]

Right…Ali had one of the best chins ever. He took a flush Frazier left hook and hopped back up. Tyson knocking him out would be highly unlikely.

Ali wins this one, hands down. I’m talking prime Ali, the Ali that fought Cleveland Williams, and the prime Tyson. First of all, Tyson as a person was filled to the brim with self-doubt, and Ali would have preyed upon that outside of the ring.

Tyson’s could not win a fight when his plan “A” didn’t work. Buster showed this. Ali would have used his brilliant footwork and stinging jab to waltz around the ring with Tyson for the first half of the fight. Tyson would stick to his “A” plan, bobbing and weaving and coming right at him. Everytime Tyson sets up to throw, Ali is already gone though, and Tyson eats a jab or two as Ali dances away.

Mike might catch him here and there, but Ali’s chin was substantial and he wouldn’t be dazed enough for Tyson to capitalize. Meanwhile, Ali has peppered Tyson’s face with 20-30 jabs a round, a few crosses, and Tyson’s eyes are swollen. His “A” game not working, Tyson starts getting panicky and wild, Ali has mastered his timing, and those jabs start turning into hard combos.

Eventually we see Tyson hit the canvas in the late rounds, 10-12, and the fight is over. Ali wins this one 8 out of 10 times. Too fast, too smart, too good at keeping range, and Tyson was just too predictable.

[quote]B.b. in stress! wrote:
I’ve seen ali fight, but tyson just seems like he would rip ali apart. literally…http://youtube.com/watch?v=8KemCbR-zGw[/quote]

I reckon Tyson would get fustrated by Ali’s movement and would therefore lose.

However, these who’d beat who debates are fun but kinda pointless

Fun is pointless!?!? What are you? Amish?

I throw my vote in for Ali as well, although a young Tyson was a wrecking ball in the ring like few other fighters I’ve seen.

However, it depends on which Ali we are talking about. In the Foreman fight, that was Ali after all of the BS he went through for his Vietnam War conscientious objector status (a topic that deserves a thread unto itself… always nice to see your means of earning a living stripped for your political views).

The guy was out of boxing completely for what… 3 years? He was never as fast and fluid as he was before that. Give me that Ali against pretty much anyone.

On a side note, why all of the boxing threads of late? I’m not complaining since I’m enjoying them, just noticing a trend.

FYI - The new full-length “Rocky Balboa” trailer is out. I will admit it… I’m excited.

http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/rockybalboa.html

[quote]Donut62 wrote:
Ali wins this one, hands down. I’m talking prime Ali, the Ali that fought Cleveland Williams, and the prime Tyson. First of all, Tyson as a person was filled to the brim with self-doubt, and Ali would have preyed upon that outside of the ring.

Tyson’s could not win a fight when his plan “A” didn’t work. Buster showed this. Ali would have used his brilliant footwork and stinging jab to waltz around the ring with Tyson for the first half of the fight. Tyson would stick to his “A” plan, bobbing and weaving and coming right at him. Everytime Tyson sets up to throw, Ali is already gone though, and Tyson eats a jab or two as Ali dances away.

Mike might catch him here and there, but Ali’s chin was substantial and he wouldn’t be dazed enough for Tyson to capitalize. Meanwhile, Ali has peppered Tyson’s face with 20-30 jabs a round, a few crosses, and Tyson’s eyes are swollen. His “A” game not working, Tyson starts getting panicky and wild, Ali has mastered his timing, and those jabs start turning into hard combos.

Eventually we see Tyson hit the canvas in the late rounds, 10-12, and the fight is over. Ali wins this one 8 out of 10 times. Too fast, too smart, too good at keeping range, and Tyson was just too predictable.[/quote]

nice work. i feel like this fight actually happened !

I think a better fight and a better argument would be Ali in his prime vs Holyfield in his. That would have been epic.

I think the Ali-Tyson argument would have to be based on the Frazier vs Ali fight in which Frazier rocked his world. In my opinion, Tyson (i.h.p.) could clobber Frazier, thus annihilate Ali.

Sugar Ray Robinson > tyson + ali