T Nation

You Know Like, Fat People..?

Well… is it just laziness, or not quite enough effort diet-wise or exercise wise, genetics for the poor few - or what?

What got me thinking was:

1/ Yesterday, whilst having one of my many shites of the day, i picked up a womans mag from one of my family members who had left it on the floor.

2/ The 2 logs i have been following fairly regularly, Fattyfat’s log… and The 280lb Bulk topic. Especially fattys log.
Now i find them both very inspiring, and it got me thinking about the motivation, determination and all that stuff that WILL result in those particular people realizing their goals, of that i am sure (Except the 280lb thing, but we have gone over that!)

As for point 1, here is the thought…
The magazine had a coloumn in by a woman who is a D list celeb and eternally fat (For the Brits here, it’s the fat, black one from big brother years ago… Alison something…)

And the coloumn was about “Diet Buddies” Join me in trying to shift those stubborn pounds: with treat of the week, low calorie microwave meal for one of the week… you get the gist.

Anyway, it got me thinking. To a bodybuilder (Either competing; amateur, professional or not, but very very serious) it doesn’t affect the final result - when they step on stage/the beach or whatever - what body-type they are.

Take a pure Endo-Morph for example, I bet this Alison is just a pure Endo-morph, but she has struggled with her weight for years… but a bodybuilder endomorph, they will have taken that into account and simply go lower on his/her carbs! Increase his/her cardio to 2+x daily, plus their lifting schedule! And boomph! 12-20 weeks later… 4-6% (Under 10% for the rest of us!)

Is it purely about the effort, dedication, motivation and DISCIPLINE that bodybuilders in general possess that set them apart from other the demographics that diet for aesthetic reasons*, and are some people like Alison just missing the mark by concentrating on “Treat of the week” (which is chocolate based BTW!), and trying to lose weight by the easiest means possible (therefore not achiving it!), OR is she likely to have that particular gene that makes her unable to lose weight once it is put on…?

Bear in mind, i am talking about the Endo type people out there, Apples. FAT. Obese. Gunts…ahem. (for the Brits - a Gunt is a Gut with a Cunt, or a cunt with a Gut, those women… you know!)

Not the poor fuckers that are so fat, they are being crushed under their own body, and cannot get out of bed, let alone their house without a crane…

*I want to justify why i chose Bodybuilders as the example of an endo-morph sportsman… It is because in all the other sports, endo-morphs who are successful are so usually BECAUSE of the extra weight, and do not diet/exercise down to the amazing condition that bodybuilding endo’s do. (although they do control their weight)

Take Hammer, Discus, Boxing even… the endo’s that compete have alot of muyscle, yes. But they are usually no leaner than 15% - which is not to be sniffed at, but for the purpose of the argument, i think you understand where i am coming from.

So which is it? A simple case of not enough discipline, or a genetic ruling that cannot be helped?

Joe

This thread should probably be in the “Get A Life” forum.

This isn’t really discussing specific training goals, it is just general wonderings about fat people.

Nature vs. Nurture! Well observed, Joe. Personally, I think genetics set the stage for being overweight. People start off as a little bit bigger fish than everyone else due to genetics. But then, its generally their own choice to become whales or stay the same/leaner. Granted, the rest of their lives they will have a predisposition towards gaining, but that’s where the diciplined truly stand out.

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
This thread should probably be in the “Get A Life” forum.

This isn’t really discussing specific training goals, it is just general wonderings about fat people.

[/quote]

What about:
“how do they get big in jail?”
“At What Point Do You Say Forget it?”
“Hardgainers dont exist”
OR
“good bodybuilding books?”

These aren’t really discussing specific training goals, either.

Joe

Dude, most people are fat/obese because they do not put in the effort. They may CLAIM they have tried everything, but what they haven’t tried is watching what they eat intelligently for many many months while lifting weights 4-5 times a week every single week and actually working hard enough to see progress.

One of the ladies at my job brings kolaches and doughnuts to work every single day (or at least MOST days). It is no wonder she weighs a probable near 350lbs. If she were to ever say she has tried everything, I would fall over laughing at the obvious joke.

Unless someone has a true metabolic disease, I do not consider obesity some random act of nature.

It takes a long time of ignoring the damage you are doing to get that fat in the first place. There is also way too much info available today for this to happen passively. These people know which foods they shouldn’t be eating. They just keep eating them because they like it or they think this makes them normal.

I wish the idea of bringing doughnuts to work would die quickly.

Mind you, there is a “Fitness Connection” right next door and NONE of these women have memberships.

Thanks, and i ABSOLUTELY agree!

Joe

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Dude, most people are fat/obese because they do not put in the effort. They may CLAIM they have tried everything, but what they haven’t tried is watching what they eat intelligently for many many months while lifting weights 4-5 times a week every single week and actually working hard enough to see progress.
[/quote]

You have it all wrong.

These people all just have hormonal issues or a really slow metabolism. I seriously doubt their obesity could be related to the fact that they eat like pigs and barely exercise.

You are who you choose to be. Most people choose to eat like shit, look like shit, and be fat tubs of shit.
Barring a serious medical condition, people are fat because they choose to be fat. They make conscious choices every day which they know are associated with being a fat slob, and they continually choose to stuff their faces with high calorie shit foods.

Yes, it is true that genetics plays a role in weight gain and obesity, but no one is going to tell me that they rapid weight gain in the last couple decades is due to genes, we didn’t mutate and pass along a fat gene to the last generation.

Boils down to fat people choose to be fat. It only takes a serious conscious choice to drop the weight.

If you’ve ever worked in a cafe or restaurant then you wouldn’t need to ask. It’s more like actively working towards becoming obese than any of the options you posed.

You obviously forgot to take into account the “Fat Genes” that we, as humans, have evolved since the inception of fast good. People being lazy and cheating during their “trying everything” couldn’t possibly be the reason.

[quote]will to power wrote:
If you’ve ever worked in a cafe or restaurant then you wouldn’t need to ask. It’s more like actively working towards becoming obese than any of the options you posed. [/quote]

Agreed. I saw one woman stuff down an entire box of fried chicken and then make a comment that she may be gaining weight as if that was a surprise.

That hugely obese guy on the Discovery Channel who hadn’t left his bedroom in 10 years until his family moved Thanksgiving dinner to the living room (prompting him to have to walk for the first time in years to get to it) make me want a contentional death penalty allowed to anyone who helps fat bastards stay that fat and get even fatter.

Someone who can’t walk should be getting real skinny really quick. Someone is bringing them food everyday when their stomach alone takes up an entire queen sized mattress.

I think its pretty simple, if you are overweight it is because you havn’t put in the effort to lose the weight. So for the people who are fat and say they can’t loose weight it is simply a matter of dedication.

It often seams that these people see their ecto and even more meso morphic friends going out and eating shit and along with what is seen on tv and what not, think that that is how everyone lives and are not willing to do what is necessary to lose the weight; they don’t want to/have the dedication to, eat the same boring foods at the same times day in and day out.

When people start thinking of food primarily as nutrition for the machine that is their body, then they will begin to make progress!

I think most people lack the discipline to get lean and stay that way, and blame genetics for it.Sure genetics may have them predisposed to more fat gain (If it is even genetics I think most of these people think of the skinny teenagers with the amped up metabolism as normal genetics) but they do not have the discipline to not eat crappy foods that make them fat, or exercise to burn excessive calories.

They claim to have tried everything but, all they have tried are popular crash diets or diets that replace normal food with lower calorie crap food that will not help them in the end.

Barring any health issues I’m absolutely sure the mindset is the number one reason for getting fat.

I’m talking from both a personal and an observer’s point of view.

Of course, there are lots of other reasons attributing to feeling OK in fatty mode. One of those reasons is society’s hypocrisy:

“But we love you the way you are.”

“It’s what’s in your head that counts. Bodies waste one way or another.”

Saying one thing and meaning the other: double moral standards at their best.

And now don’t think I’m a newly reformed health shizzer ranting about his “holier than thou” bullshit. I’m not.

I work with lots of - in one way or another - intelligent people. Nevertheless, they’re not able to understand why I even lift. I’m not telling them about my plans to get ripped because I don’t want to waste another fucking minute explaining myself. I just won’t. Until I’m cut I’m gonna wear my wide clothes and come summer I’m gonna show up wearing a tee.

Genetics will only take you so far. How many bodybuilders started off with ‘poor structures’, or ‘wide hips and narrow clavicles’ or all the other terms you hear thrown around. The reason BBers can rise above this is (and I’ve given this A LOT of thought)…

They don’t define themselves by their sport. They can be detached and look at their ‘work’ and see what needs work. What parts need more size, what needs more definition. They are then disciplined enough to implement their strategy to accomplish said goal because the end result is worth it.

On the other hand, most ‘normal’ people (non-training/fat types) will take comments or descriptions about their physiques (if you can call them that) as a personal attack. You are not objectively describing their build, you are attacking them as a person.

This is why when some fat people have a difficult time losing weight (didnt realize that it takes effort), they fall off the wagon, saying something like “This is who I am!”, or some other feel good B.S. that allows them to validate their inability to put forth enough effort to change their situtaion.

I’ve done a lot of commercial artwork for tv and films, and in the process, have become equally detached from my artwork. I have to be because that is the nature of the industry. With so many people collaborating on a project, if your particular contribution is ‘off model’, or just doesn’t fit, it gets removed, or reworked.

It’s not a personal thing, just how it has to go to get the required end results. I always see some young kids right out of art school who takes every criticism from a director as a personal attack on his ‘creative vision’, or his choice on ‘style’. Some people, no matter how hard thgey try, or say that they try, cannot be objective about certain things.

I always saw this parallel in bodybuilding and artwork (at least in my own life) as what has allowed me to actually achieve my own resultd. If my ass looks a little fat one day, I want my gym buddies to tell me so I can work on it. If I’m drawing a particular character a little off scale, I need someone to give me a heads up.

This is how you learn, and this is how you make progress. It’s not easy, and it requires work, and that’s the harsh reality.

S

Haha! Good stuff…

It is ridiculous you even feel like you have to cover up, so as not to start a debate or whatever about wanting to improve your body/image/health!

That is the nature of human beings though, political correctness “gone mad”

We cannot try to support, understand, protect one demographic/race/sector/population without doing the opposite to the other “side”!

We cant support people wanting to be, or being happy with over weight, without resorting to slating people who are wanting to lose weight, and get cut. (which is in my view the most ridiculous thing i have heard of!)

We cant support wanting to be slim, lean without attacking the other side! (Fat people)

I am totally guilty of this too, as i am 100% in the same view on this as the professor.

Just an observation.

Joe

If your fat all it takes to lose weight is the right diet and power walks every day. That sounds easy to me. I wish I could do that and see results.

I get the same response from so many people about “hardgainers” and “fatasses” lol. They all state that they’ve tried everything and nothing works. Their problem is the problem of probaly 95% of new gym goers. They want results fast. They try a diet for a week or two and if they are not shredded in that time they give up and write it off as “it didn’t work for me.” People like this don’t realize that it takes years to build good physiques. The excuse for genetics can only been taken soo far. lol

Oh another favorite of mine is the person who buys a bunch of supplements and says “while i’m taking this stuff i’m going to eat healthy and work out hard” then when they finish their supps they are back to the same lazy routine with their diets and training program. IDK I just don’t get these people. lol

Gerdy

Honestly, it comes down to personal responsibility more than anything. As a high school teacher, I can only use the analogy of my students grades and academic performance. I dont know but when I was younger and I brought home shitty grades, my dad would flip a lid. I made sure I got disciplined from my dad and then the whole “you’re life is ruined” lecture from my mom (always the worst). Kids in my classrooms…they just dont care. Their parents make COUNTLESS excuses…“oh they have ADD” or “you know they just dont like history that much…” You think the kids dumb…just meet mom and dad and you’ll know why.

The point im making is…this generation (I say this generation because obesity is climbing in this generation) lacks PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. 95% of my students ALWAYS blame something else for their lack of academic achievement. They do the same with their lives, diets, everything.

Im pretty sure most of our parents taught us a sense of responsibility and make sure we knew we were in charge of our lives and thus we have the jobs we have, or look the way we look. It all starts with taking responsibility…something most (American) parents dont teach their kids.

I don’t look down on fat people. A woman I know has worked 30 plus years in factories doing pretty demanding manual labour. Then she went on to run her own successful business working 17-18 hour days everyday of the week.

She was overweight because she only ate two crappy meals a day and didn’t have the time to prepare something healthy because she was too busy putting food on the table to support her family.

I really hate generalisations.