[quote]MaximusB wrote:
security measures (which were circumvented by the school valedictorian and shared with the other kids within just one week). [/quote]
That kid’s going places.
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
The school district I live in (not the one I attended when I was in school) just spent $1 Billion on iPads for every single student. The pilot program showed that after 1 month, 30% of those iPads are “missing.”[/quote]
I am speechless.
[/quote]
Each iPad cost about $700 each, which included the educational software and security measures (which were circumvented by the school valedictorian and shared with the other kids within just one week). [/quote]
Read about that. Ironically (?) the local school board here did the same thing last year and this place is as conservative as it gets. It’s also MUCH smaller so I think they have had more success with the rollout. I do think they have had their share of issues though with breaking and theft. I don’t remember hearing about anything catastrophic though and they still have them so it must have went well enough to keep here.
Why were the iPads 700 aren’t those like 500 retail and you’d think a discount for buying in bulk for a school? [/quote]
The people here are uninformed, and woefully paralyzed by political and bureaucratic fuckery to the point where they don’t care.
I agree that the school district should have made a bulk deal with Apple to get a lower cost, I am not sure why they did not attempt to do that.
The deal came with a proviso, Apple would cover loss/theft/damage up to 5% of the iPads handed out, which has already been passed within just 1 month of this program being rolled out.
Here is another issue, within 2 years, this generation of iPads will be obsolete because the tech is constantly improving. Will these school districts who do this buy a new set of iPads, or whatever tech is optimal at the time ?
If you plan to continue this idea of constantly giving kids this kind of technology, it is going to become extremely expensive to maintain. And I have yet to see that giving a kid an iPad translates into scores getting better.
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
security measures (which were circumvented by the school valedictorian and shared with the other kids within just one week). [/quote]
That kid’s going places.[/quote]
Strongly agree with you here.
And while I think some kids would use this resource to learn, many will not. Most kids go on Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, etc with these things.
The school district had a meeting recently over the public outrage. A parent asked who would be responsible if the device becomes lost or stolen, the superintendent made it clear it would not be the kids or their families. So again, if not the kids or families, then who ? Minutes of crickets.
On the college level, here is another example of why the future looks bleak.
"Hugo Schwyzer, a controversial gender studies professor who provoked a storm of protest after inviting porn actors to his class, has resigned his position at Pasadena City College, officials said Wednesday.
The college had started an investigation after Schwyzer admitted on his website to having sexual relationships with several students in recent years."
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
The reporter who wrote this is mathematically-challenged himself.
[/quote]
yup.
[quote]
Averages are near meaningless, especially in the USA which is very diverse.
To be blunt, the IQ (or whatever metric you want to use) in the USA is not on a clean bell curve, but is rather bi-modal, with 2 modes — one above the solidly above the international average and one below.
Not the case in Japan or Holland or other countries that are not as diverse.[/quote]
Correct. They don’t have Walmarts in Japan or Holland. They don’t know what stupid looks like. But I will put the best and the brightest from the US against any of theirs.[/quote]
Our best and brightest are probably not a product of our public school system, whereas theirs by and large are.
Public educational systems in Europe and Asia seem to be designed to turn out educated people (imagine that!). Our public schools seem designed to turn out another generation of unquestioning, obedient, semiliterate consumers who will end up dependent on the government for their livelihood. Ask yourself where the preponderance of American congressmen and Fortune 500 executives send their children to school. More than likely it is not to a government school.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
We disdain the teaching profession, intellectuals and intelligence itself.
[/quote]
Why would the best and brightest teach at a public school full of disrespectful kids for 40k/yr? You’re leaving a lot of money on the table teaching at a public school with a Masters degree.
Good teachers make a huge difference. Unfortunately it is extremely difficult to get rid of poor teachers and replace them with better ones. And the pay does not necessarily attract talent. My mother has been a teacher for nearly 30 yrs and has just really broken through making some decent money, but still nothing compared to what others with a Masters degree in other fields make. I respect teachers that have a talent and make that sacrifice.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
security measures (which were circumvented by the school valedictorian and shared with the other kids within just one week). [/quote]
That kid’s going places.[/quote]
Strongly agree with you here.
And while I think some kids would use this resource to learn, many will not. Most kids go on Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, etc with these things.
The school district had a meeting recently over the public outrage. A parent asked who would be responsible if the device becomes lost or stolen, the superintendent made it clear it would not be the kids or their families. So again, if not the kids or families, then who ? Minutes of crickets.
On the college level, here is another example of why the future looks bleak.
"Hugo Schwyzer, a controversial gender studies professor who provoked a storm of protest after inviting porn actors to his class, has resigned his position at Pasadena City College, officials said Wednesday.
The college had started an investigation after Schwyzer admitted on his website to having sexual relationships with several students in recent years."
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-college-resign-20131009,0,764664.story[/quote]
Yep. I’m with you on this one. My niece goes to one of the biggest and richest high schools in Austin, TX. She has had a “school ipad” throughout high school. I witnessed firsthand how “I need to do some homework” actually means, “I need to flip obsessively though my old pictures.”
Kids need to learn the old fashioned way. We see the same thing in the gym: “I’m gonna do standing one-legged off balance one-fingered skullcrushers today. SO good for the core.” No. Just load a rusty bar with rusty plates and pick it up. The bells and whistles become a way from abstracting oneself farther and farther away from the actual work.
There is nothing on an ipad that will change the way children think even a small fraction as compared with reading “Politics and the English Language.” And, added bonus, the latter doesn’t make kids manic, nuerotic narcicists. Someday, yes, it’s important to know how to use the stupid little things. And I do see the advantage in making sure poor/rural kids get to know tech in school, just in case. But damn. And $700? Jesus.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
The reporter who wrote this is mathematically-challenged himself.
[/quote]
yup.
[quote]
Averages are near meaningless, especially in the USA which is very diverse.
To be blunt, the IQ (or whatever metric you want to use) in the USA is not on a clean bell curve, but is rather bi-modal, with 2 modes — one above the solidly above the international average and one below.
Not the case in Japan or Holland or other countries that are not as diverse.[/quote]
Correct. They don’t have Walmarts in Japan or Holland. They don’t know what stupid looks like. But I will put the best and the brightest from the US against any of theirs.[/quote]
Our best and brightest are probably not a product of our public school system, whereas theirs by and large are.
Public educational systems in Europe and Asia seem to be designed to turn out educated people (imagine that!). Our public schools seem designed to turn out another generation of unquestioning, obedient, semiliterate consumers who will end up dependent on the government for their livelihood. Ask yourself where the preponderance of American congressmen and Fortune 500 executives send their children to school. More than likely it is not to a government school. [/quote]
I disagree. Based on personal experience, I pulled my kids from an inferior private school to the much superior public schools. I realize that my area is ‘special’ in that we have the best schools in the state. But the schools my kids attend are better then the private school they went to before and I went to.
I did both, private and public. Honestly, aside from wearing uniforms, there was no diffence from what I can tell. I wasn’t behind in anyway when I got to the private high school from my inferior public middle school education.
Bottom line on these stats is we have some serious bottom dwellers skewing the mean.
It’s just easier for small countries with small populations of similar peoples to have a higher mean intelligence. They are more alike than they are different. We are more different than alike.
Your also talking about countries who have little worry. They don’t have to defend themselves because we will protect them. Their economies are small and more isolated. Flatly, they don’t have many of the worries we have to contend with being a large country, a world power with a large diversity, and the largest economy in the world.
I spent a lot of time in Europe in my youth, I can tell you this, the world rises and falls on the United States.
We are the ones who knock 
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
security measures (which were circumvented by the school valedictorian and shared with the other kids within just one week). [/quote]
That kid’s going places.[/quote]
Strongly agree with you here.
And while I think some kids would use this resource to learn, many will not. Most kids go on Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, etc with these things.
The school district had a meeting recently over the public outrage. A parent asked who would be responsible if the device becomes lost or stolen, the superintendent made it clear it would not be the kids or their families. So again, if not the kids or families, then who ? Minutes of crickets.
On the college level, here is another example of why the future looks bleak.
"Hugo Schwyzer, a controversial gender studies professor who provoked a storm of protest after inviting porn actors to his class, has resigned his position at Pasadena City College, officials said Wednesday.
The college had started an investigation after Schwyzer admitted on his website to having sexual relationships with several students in recent years."
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-college-resign-20131009,0,764664.story[/quote]
Yep. I’m with you on this one. My niece goes to one of the biggest and richest high schools in Austin, TX. She has had a “school ipad” throughout high school. I witnessed firsthand how “I need to do some homework” actually means, “I need to flip obsessively though my old pictures.”
Kids need to learn the old fashioned way. We see the same thing in the gym: “I’m gonna do standing one-legged off balance one-fingered skullcrushers today. SO good for the core.” No. Just load a rusty bar with rusty plates and pick it up. The bells and whistles become a way from abstracting oneself farther and farther away from the actual work.
There is nothing on an ipad that will change the way children think even a small fraction as compared with reading “Politics and the English Language.” And, added bonus, the latter doesn’t make kids manic, nuerotic narcicists. Someday, yes, it’s important to know how to use the stupid little things. And I do see the advantage in making sure poor/rural kids get to know tech in school, just in case. But damn. And $700? Jesus.[/quote]
x2
Whats wrong with a pen and paper?
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
The reporter who wrote this is mathematically-challenged himself.
[/quote]
yup.
[quote]
Averages are near meaningless, especially in the USA which is very diverse.
To be blunt, the IQ (or whatever metric you want to use) in the USA is not on a clean bell curve, but is rather bi-modal, with 2 modes — one above the solidly above the international average and one below.
Not the case in Japan or Holland or other countries that are not as diverse.[/quote]
Correct. They don’t have Walmarts in Japan or Holland. They don’t know what stupid looks like. But I will put the best and the brightest from the US against any of theirs.[/quote]
Our best and brightest are probably not a product of our public school system, whereas theirs by and large are.
Public educational systems in Europe and Asia seem to be designed to turn out educated people (imagine that!). Our public schools seem designed to turn out another generation of unquestioning, obedient, semiliterate consumers who will end up dependent on the government for their livelihood. Ask yourself where the preponderance of American congressmen and Fortune 500 executives send their children to school. More than likely it is not to a government school. [/quote]
That’s because the schools in Asia and much of Europe (say, Germany)–though not all of Europe–don’t give a FLYING FUCK if you fail out. Your success is on YOU. Their schools are graded in a way that it is a trial by fire–don’t place high enough in the percentiles on your year end comprehensive exams? Sorry, you can’t go to college. Go find a trade to work, we don’t care. You aren’t even allowed into college prep high schools if you fail to earn proper grades in the equivalent of middle school for fucks sake. And this stuff starts young.
The US could do something like that. Then again, it would infuriate too many mouth breathers and be too un-PC.
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
Yep. I’m with you on this one. My niece goes to one of the biggest and richest high schools in Austin, TX. She has had a “school ipad” throughout high school. I witnessed firsthand how “I need to do some homework” actually means, “I need to flip obsessively though my old pictures.”
Kids need to learn the old fashioned way. We see the same thing in the gym: “I’m gonna do standing one-legged off balance one-fingered skullcrushers today. SO good for the core.” No. Just load a rusty bar with rusty plates and pick it up. The bells and whistles become a way from abstracting oneself farther and farther away from the actual work.
There is nothing on an ipad that will change the way children think even a small fraction as compared with reading “Politics and the English Language.” And, added bonus, the latter doesn’t make kids manic, nuerotic narcicists. Someday, yes, it’s important to know how to use the stupid little things. And I do see the advantage in making sure poor/rural kids get to know tech in school, just in case. But damn. And $700? Jesus.[/quote]
Absolutely agree. I’ve been saying the same thing about graphing calculators for years, so the new Ipad craze in schools is just asinine. Kids don’t even understand basic order of operations anymore, they just type it into the calculator for the most basic of algebraic functions and never even get into the real functionality of the calculator. A basic scientific calculator is all one will ever need, and even then not nearly as often most assume.
I have a BS in math. I’ve never owned a graphing calculator. I borrowed one for a matrix theory class simply for the raw computing power to do matrix calculations in a timely manner and that was the only class I ever even used one for. A TI-30 and later a financial calculator was all I ever needed.
[quote]florelius wrote:
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
security measures (which were circumvented by the school valedictorian and shared with the other kids within just one week). [/quote]
That kid’s going places.[/quote]
Strongly agree with you here.
And while I think some kids would use this resource to learn, many will not. Most kids go on Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, etc with these things.
The school district had a meeting recently over the public outrage. A parent asked who would be responsible if the device becomes lost or stolen, the superintendent made it clear it would not be the kids or their families. So again, if not the kids or families, then who ? Minutes of crickets.
On the college level, here is another example of why the future looks bleak.
"Hugo Schwyzer, a controversial gender studies professor who provoked a storm of protest after inviting porn actors to his class, has resigned his position at Pasadena City College, officials said Wednesday.
The college had started an investigation after Schwyzer admitted on his website to having sexual relationships with several students in recent years."
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-college-resign-20131009,0,764664.story[/quote]
Yep. I’m with you on this one. My niece goes to one of the biggest and richest high schools in Austin, TX. She has had a “school ipad” throughout high school. I witnessed firsthand how “I need to do some homework” actually means, “I need to flip obsessively though my old pictures.”
Kids need to learn the old fashioned way. We see the same thing in the gym: “I’m gonna do standing one-legged off balance one-fingered skullcrushers today. SO good for the core.” No. Just load a rusty bar with rusty plates and pick it up. The bells and whistles become a way from abstracting oneself farther and farther away from the actual work.
There is nothing on an ipad that will change the way children think even a small fraction as compared with reading “Politics and the English Language.” And, added bonus, the latter doesn’t make kids manic, nuerotic narcicists. Someday, yes, it’s important to know how to use the stupid little things. And I do see the advantage in making sure poor/rural kids get to know tech in school, just in case. But damn. And $700? Jesus.[/quote]
x2
Whats wrong with a pen and paper?
[/quote]
Absolutely NOTHING. We still use them in the professional settings when the software tech fails.
In order to be truly successful–truly KNOWLEDGEABLE–you need to understand the mechanics of how things are processed in math, science, and physics; and that is done by doing the work bodily, not on a calculator. Also I do believe there is something to be said for being able to take notes in the margins of a textbook in terms of subject retention. I know I can’t assimilate near as much material in a text if I have to use it in electronic format. They still have yet to come out with a good enough electronic “note taking” software.
I think we should replace the Department of Education with the T-Nation PWI forum. We could solve a lot of problems.
The internet did not exist when I was in high school and college.
I am just curious what many of you think…
If you all had access to this tech and information we have today when you were all back in high school and college, how do you think it would have affected your performance and productivity ?
[quote]tedro wrote:
I think we should replace the Department of Education with the T-Nation PWI forum. We could solve a lot of problems.[/quote]
Lol
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
The internet did not exist when I was in high school and college.
I am just curious what many of you think…
If you all had access to this tech and information we have today when you were all back in high school and college, how do you think it would have affected your performance and productivity ?
[/quote]
The switch happened while I was in school, and I can assure you that I became lazier because of Google books and things like it.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
The internet did not exist when I was in high school and college.
I am just curious what many of you think…
If you all had access to this tech and information we have today when you were all back in high school and college, how do you think it would have affected your performance and productivity ?
[/quote]
I didn’t have the internet in high school, but I will try to comment.
The information is a huge boost. The ease of research and being able to find more relevant information is amazing. When I was a kid we literally only knew about what books we had in the library or what an Encylopedia had. Now you can find all sorts of things using the internet. I’m constantly changing my viewpoint on politics, health, etc based on what I read with the internet. I have no doubt for me alone it has made me much more intelligent.
The problem is you can also waste serious amounts of time with non school related activities. Kids have always found ways to do with without distractions. We had drop outs, burn outs, lazy kids, etc. before the internet. Technology didn’t create this, but give me a boring teacher and an iPhone and I would have a hard time being engaged with the teacher.
A lot of it is some of the same difficulties with jobs. How many people post during work, check phones during work, etc? I have a few friends who own their own businesses who say they have seen employee productivity and even their own go down with all the digital distractions.
I’m also concerned on working memory and other associations. I mean I frequently google stuff I “know” simply because now I’m too lazy to even think about certain things long enough. I know I’m not the only one here like that. Google is the ultimate mental crutch and that’s coming from someone who uses it all the time.
I’m certainly not arguing that a massive percentage of the American public isn’t moronic. We’re in agreement there lol. However I think some of your reasonings for why this is are irrelevant.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Americans watch more television than any other people on earth besides the British.
We spend more as a nation on video games than the other nine nations in the top ten combined.
[/quote]
See I don’t think either video games or television inherently decreases intelligence. My childhood friends and I spent practically our entire youths doing both at the same time. You can actually learn quite a lot from each. Traditionally these days the smartest kids are the nerds who play lots of video games…
Amongst my 7 closest high school video game/television addicted friends, 2 of them were valedictorian (one was a year younger), and two more were tied for salutatorian. The average ACT score amongst the 8 of us was a 34 (I was the dumb one dropping the average with my 33 lol). I cannot see the argument for virtual forms of media affecting intelligence.
[quote]Karado wrote:
Yeah, why we weren’t we taught ‘‘Vedic Math’’ in School for example is beyond me, you can also graduate
High School without ANY education on Laws or your BASIC rights beyond the scope of the Constitution and Bill Of Rights,
and low/no risk BASIC saving and Investing strategies that would virtually guarantee EVERY High School graduate of being Millionaires
before the age of 50.[/quote]
You weren’t taught Vedic Math because it is generally inconvenient, hard to understand, and when it is taught (It’s actually common in elementary schools these days) teachers bypass the basic principles of multiplication and go straight to the Vedic Method.
In order to understand how the Vedic Methods work, one must first have a thorough understanding of basic algebra. When it is taught today, it is taught as an “easy” way to do math for young children. In reality it is much more difficult than our conventional methods because the student is not taught why it works, they are simply memorizing a method that will lead to major roadblocks as problems get more difficult.
Vedic math is nothing more than a method of solving basic problems. Even at a young age, it is important to teach the proof of the method. The proof behind our conventional multiplication methods is obvious to all but the dumbest kids that haven’t yet mastered addition. The proof behind Vedic math is not at all self-evident and cannot be taught without already understanding how multiplication and basic algebra works.
If you like it, fine. It can be a convenient shortcut for simple calculations, but it makes a horrible tool for actually teaching problem solving.
[quote]H factor wrote:
I didn’t have the internet in high school, but I will try to comment.
The information is a huge boost. The ease of research and being able to find more relevant information is amazing. When I was a kid we literally only knew about what books we had in the library or what an Encylopedia had. Now you can find all sorts of things using the internet. I’m constantly changing my viewpoint on politics, health, etc based on what I read with the internet. I have no doubt for me alone it has made me much more intelligent.
[/quote]
Has it made you more intelligent, or has it made you more knowledgeable? There is a key difference. It’s your intelligence that motivates you to research in the first place.
One of the biggest problems with our education system is that it does not recognize the difference. In trying to increase knowledge we fail to recognize intelligence.
[quote]tedro wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
I didn’t have the internet in high school, but I will try to comment.
The information is a huge boost. The ease of research and being able to find more relevant information is amazing. When I was a kid we literally only knew about what books we had in the library or what an Encylopedia had. Now you can find all sorts of things using the internet. I’m constantly changing my viewpoint on politics, health, etc based on what I read with the internet. I have no doubt for me alone it has made me much more intelligent.
[/quote]
Has it made you more intelligent, or has it made you more knowledgeable? There is a key difference. It’s your intelligence that motivates you to research in the first place.
One of the biggest problems with our education system is that it does not recognize the difference. In trying to increase knowledge we fail to recognize intelligence.[/quote]
I don’t know what it has done in terms of intellectual curiosity as I have always had that. My views on things change so much because I constantly read things that make me think in a different way than before. Now I think I would do that without the internet because I’ve always been a big reader and a curious individual.
I figure with technology it is like anything else. Good teachers are probably doing some amazing things with it and poor teachers probably aren’t. We had bad teachers long before technology and I don’t necessarily think technology will help bad teachers become good ones.
The boost in information is an amazingly good thing and I don’t know how anyone could argue otherwise. The danger in a digital age is that information comes with all sorts of distractions.