Agree.
[quote]bugeishaAD wrote:
I LOL sometimes at how complicated the vast majority of posters on the Bodybuilding section make things.[/quote]
Best post iv read i was starting to wonder if i was over training but now i see im faaaar from over training and now i can add an extra session or 2 a week 
Overtaining is reality but many you won’t never get even close if you just listen you’r body.
Intensity counts. You can recover from training even very heavy, every day if you have good recovery, good genetics, you eat like you would be an bear, sleep(good sleep).
If you don’t get results, have mental issues, bad sleep and sick all the time then you are probably just OVERREACHING.
In that case keep 2 off days, or even 2 weeks, how do you feel?
Nice to see someone resurrect a thread that matters. I remember reading this one when it was posted, and even though I agreed at the time, I didn’t understand just how right Lonnie is.
I’m currently doing leg workouts in excess of 30 HARD work sets twice a week, using different intensity techniques on some lifts. I’m making leaps-and-bounds gains in leg muscle, and as an added bonus, my legs don’t even get sore anymore. They feel worked, but not painful. Same with all other muscle groups; no soreness.
Don’t be afraid of overtraining. Be afraid of undertraining. If you’re doing a split, figure out how to do the most work you possibly can in the training time you have. Use intensity techniques to make the sets harder (i use drop sets, slow negatives, giant sets, rest pause, rep-and-a-halfs, loaded stretches, static holds, etc…, and my workouts are reverse-pyramid, so every set is just as intense as the first).
Don’t listen to your body, either. It’ll lie to you. It’ll tell you things like “you’ll die if you do another set of squats”. You won’t die. You might puke. Or maybe pass out. But you won’t die.
Big tip for big leg routines- walk it off! Even if you look like a wobbly newborn fawn- walk!
If I get done and don’t take a walk, I’ll feel like I’m gonna die for about an hour. If I walk up to the stop sign and back (maybe an eighth of a mile), I’m good to go.
I read a lot of posts on here. And I completely disagree. And this will offend a lot of people. But my experience is that most people don’t train that hard. So they never have to worry about overtraining. Other people do. Reminds me of this video, the first 15 seconds after I started it: - YouTube
I guess that could depend on one’s definition of training hard. Smart bodybuilders recognize that form breakdown is the result of failure of the target muscle. Lifting until complete failure of the lift is counterproductive in most cases and can sometimes result in injury. So some people define lifting to failure differently than others.
I’ve had to learn these things the hard way. I lift to failure (of the target muscle) on just about every set. I’m pretty well convinced that it would be damn near impossible to overtrain this way, provided that you’re eating and sleeping pretty well, and you don’t have a physically demanding job.
Some say work hard. Some say work smart, not hard. I say if you work smart AND hard, you’re damn hard to beat.
I’m sorry, I didn’t read all the replies, but Lonnie, let me ask you a serious question.
True or false. Accumulated fatigue can make your strength levels drop temporarily (fatigue masks fitness).
If true, is this because you are not recovering fast enough?
[quote]Aopocetx wrote:
I’m sorry, I didn’t read all the replies, but Lonnie, let me ask you a serious question.
True or false. Accumulated fatigue can make your strength levels drop temporarily (fatigue masks fitness).
If true, is this because you are not recovering fast enough?[/quote]
Dat 4 year old thread tho… I actually had to go back and read this whole thing believe it or not.
I sense your question might be a bit rhetorical, yes? Of course you can be “tired” from previous workouts to the point where performance is masked, but this rarely lasts long, and can be almost immediately alleviated by a small decrease in workload.
My main post was referring to real, honest to goodness over training, as defined by the almost illness like qualities that are systemic and long lasting.
The internet is a different place than it was in 2011 when I wrote this. Honestly every day it felt like a new thread was posted about this or someone was questioning their training program because they didnt want to “over train”… it was madness and this thread was a pent up reaction to that at the time.
OP: what would you advise to someone who works his ass off and thus barely fits in a whole day: sleeping 8 hours, eating 3000+ proper calories, 12 hours launching a somewhat big business and its skyhigh level of stress.
I’m thinking about this:
Standard Warmup+5/3/1 template and schedule
(optional joker sets?)
Pyramid
Amrap
With accessory pulling movements. Thats as much a no brainer (while at the gym) as I can think about. Go to the gym, one big movement, some bodyweight/bands pulls for super high reps for a few minutes, done.
[quote]tontongg wrote:
OP: what would you advise to someone who works his ass off and thus barely fits in a whole day: sleeping 8 hours, eating 3000+ proper calories, 12 hours launching a somewhat big business and its skyhigh level of stress.
I’m thinking about this:
Standard Warmup+5/3/1 template and schedule
(optional joker sets?)
Pyramid
Amrap
With accessory pulling movements. Thats as much a no brainer (while at the gym) as I can think about. Go to the gym, one big movement, some bodyweight/bands pulls for super high reps for a few minutes, done.[/quote]
I’m certainly no coach, so take my advice with a grain of salt:
I’m confused about your plan though. Isnt the 5/3/1 template already a pyramid with a (type of) AMRAP at the end?
I’m not sure how you would do 5/3/1, pyramid, AMRAP unless I’m just misunderstanding.
As far as how to train in your situation… If you like 5/3/1 just stick with that. Its a great way to train and has a proven track record. Just pick your favorite assistance template (use BBB for simplicity) and get after it… Pretty easy really. It can be modified for 2, 3, and 4 days a week too so if you get insanely busy you can easily alter the schedule.
Lonnie,
Sometimes I’m so amped up to train, I just think about it all day long. Then, when I finally get to the gym after work, I’m already tired. Wtf? -lol
S
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Lonnie,
Sometimes I’m so amped up to train, I just think about it all day long. Then, when I finally get to the gym after work, I’m already tired. Wtf? -lol
S[/quote]
Oh man… so true!
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Lonnie,
Sometimes I’m so amped up to train, I just think about it all day long. Then, when I finally get to the gym after work, I’m already tired. Wtf? -lol
S[/quote]
The answer is obvious, double the dose of your T3 and T4 stack 
[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
I’m seeing a ton of new posts about being Over Trained in the BB Forum, and around the site in general, lately. Guys… Its not happening.
How do I know?
- Oly Lifters have 12-18 training sessions EVERY week, lifting with near maximal poundages frequently
[/quote]
Yes, I know. Most professional athletes train 30-40 hours a week minimum and some of the past Bulgarian trainers trained the same movements every day. But you have to work up to that level. A beginner will turn weightlifting into cardio and burn out their CNS and maybe bulge a disc from “lifting heavy”. How do I know? Because that’s how I started out listening to bro science instead of accessing where I was at realistically and then working out a safe, effective workout of sets in the right rep range you can manage before your form breaks down. The moment posture and form is lost a beginner is probably doing more harm than good. You can overtrain in the sense of attempting too much volume or load for your core and stabilisers to keep form. You can burn out your CNS. You can work legs till you get physically ill and dizzy for days. Beginners are even most susceptible to this stuff. And to injuries. I would’ve done better to read more of the articles here and listened to less of the bro science on the forums. Why try to push beginners into these sorts of mistakes by telling them they’re not overtraining when they likely are?
You need time to get conditioned to it. When I started as a brickie the work was so hard I was covered in sweat and panting like a dog, drinking and sweating out a pint an hour and I shaking and vomiting and collapsing. They lightened up the work a little the next day and over a week or two I quickly got fit enough for the work. I couldn’t have done the high intensity work on straight away. My body couldn’t take it. I had to back off a little and get conditioned to it.
Hence the word competitive. Why not listen to what beginners worried about overtraining are saying? You wouldn’t want anyone to injure themselves or train in effectively would you? Even if they’re not overtraining they probably have something else limiting their gains.
I actually agree with increasing volume and high volume but it has to be done progressively starting exactly where you’re at and what you’re capable of lifting with good form. That’s why Olympic lifters began their training jumping with a broomstick in their hands not an Olympic barbell with plates.
See above. I didn’t complain. They just all noticed I was not up to it.
When a muscle isn’t sore I immediately train it so all my muscles are persistently sore just not all at the same time. But I use pain as my main guide. There’s warning pain that I know means injury or potential injury. And there’s the regular soreness that I aim for and try to get it in every part of the targeted muscle / group. I use pain the following day to show me where exactly I’ve been hitting it and then adapt my training in response. This is the “intuitive” type of training where you rely on your body to tell you what to do, where to hit, when to back off etc
You’re claiming some privilege for being an overtrainer? Okay, well done. But no, you’re wrong. Anyone can overtrain especially a guy who can’t do a single pull up. Form is everything. If you’re attempting more than you’re capable of doing with good form then you may be overtraining that particular muscle / group. If you’re weekly training clocks up to hours and hours of intense cardio that may be holding back a beginner’s gains and he may do better moving down to lower reps and shorter workouts. My hamstring workout last night amounted to an hour and 50 minutes non-stop and I lost huge amounts of fluids from sweating. Even though I’d like to lose some bodyfat my main concern is not eating enough calories. I have to workout smart because my workout now is rehab for injuries - one occurring from the lift heavy, eat, sleep school of bro science. So yes, as a (physical) beginner overtraining is a common concern usually brought about by “warning” type pain or confusing halt in progress. Or in my case at the moment I’m concerned about whether I should be doing high volume workouts keeping muscles under constant tension and going to failure or near failure on every upper or lower group then doing a few more. Then 1 more. Then negatives or whatever till you collapse or vomit. And so I expect results when I put in those sorts of sessions consistently and when I’m not gaining I worry about overtraining and nutrition and LH and all kinds of things till I find what the problem is so I can fix it.
They do. I’m being asked if I’m alright all the time too because after about an hour on heavy days I’m panting like a dog, I have snot bubbling out my nose, I’m drenching all the equipment with sweat and on leg days sometimes shivering and getting dizzy and having problems with balance and nausea and vomiting and feinting.
Sit in a bed and a wheelchair for a few months and hobble around on crutches for another few then spend another two trying to walk(agonising at first) and go through crush fractures in your spine from trying to RDL heavy as newb with not enough core strength to do a set of good mornings - do all that and add heaps other worse shit then see if you feel the same. My advice from experience is:
Assess honestly where you are at physically. Only do what you are capable of doing properly with good form. When doing squats and dls start slow with high reps and always check form and keep a few reps energy reserve. You don’t need to push to anywhere near failure on these lifts or you’ll injure yourself.
Be sure about what your goals are and that they’re realistic, log everything so you know exactly how you’re progressing. Count your calories if need be. Work consistently and push yourself within safe limits. Listen to what your body tells you.
^Who the fuck trains hamstrings alone for 1hr 50mins?
You sound like an extreme character who does ridiculous things that no one else does and wonders why he ended up injured, then calls all the good advice he misinterpreted bro science while coming up with his own version of bro science to counter it.
[quote]dt79 wrote:
^Who the fuck trains hamstrings alone for 1hr 50mins?
You sound like an extreme character who does ridiculous things that no one else does and wonders why he ended up injured, then calls all the good advice he misinterpreted bro science while coming up with his own version of bro science to counter it.[/quote]
We seem to getting more of these guys lately.
1 Like
To everyone coming into this thread in 2015…
This thread is 4 years old. Please at least read through it before you write a wall of text that only a handful of people will read, less will take to heart, and even fewer still will thoughtfully respond to or think about.
[quote]Steez wrote:
[quote]dt79 wrote:
^Who the fuck trains hamstrings alone for 1hr 50mins?
You sound like an extreme character who does ridiculous things that no one else does and wonders why he ended up injured, then calls all the good advice he misinterpreted bro science while coming up with his own version of bro science to counter it.[/quote]
We seem to getting more of these guys lately. [/quote]
Agreed. Lol.
This stuck me as interesting:
I’ve noticed the people who feel a need to go into such vivid descriptions of their “ordeals” are usually the ones far less able to tolerate mental and physical stress.
[quote]dt79 wrote:
[quote]Steez wrote:
[quote]dt79 wrote:
^Who the fuck trains hamstrings alone for 1hr 50mins?
You sound like an extreme character who does ridiculous things that no one else does and wonders why he ended up injured, then calls all the good advice he misinterpreted bro science while coming up with his own version of bro science to counter it.[/quote]
We seem to getting more of these guys lately. [/quote]
Agreed. Lol.
This stuck me as interesting:
I’ve noticed the people who feel a need to go into such vivid descriptions of their “ordeals” are usually the ones far less able to tolerate mental and physical stress.[/quote]
Totally. Intolerable or simply not used to it. I’ve been pushing my body since I met my 7th grade wrestling coach, and he wasn’t asking me if I was alright all the time either.