You Are NOT Overtraining

Bigger Stronger Leaner
21

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:

I think the larger issue here is that people feel tired on Thursday and Friday, their arms are sore, and start thinking they are over trained, when in reality it takes a phenomenal effort to get over trained.

[/quote]

Hafta disagree, in a way. Most Americans pretend they don’t need sleep, and so are in an overtrained state BEFORE beginning a progressive weight-lifitng program.

Even if only marginally meeting sleep needs, especially if working M-F, then “catching up on sleep” on the weekend. Someone doing that will absolutely be entering the overtrained state on Th or F, just like you described.

Some will say “That’s obv.” But it’s obviously not obvious to many, many people.

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[quote]Jeffrey of Troy wrote:

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:

I think the larger issue here is that people feel tired on Thursday and Friday, their arms are sore, and start thinking they are over trained, when in reality it takes a phenomenal effort to get over trained.

[/quote]

Hafta disagree, in a way. Most Americans pretend they don’t need sleep, and so are in an overtrained state BEFORE beginning a progressive weight-lifitng program.

Even if only marginally meeting sleep needs, especially if working M-F, then “catching up on sleep” on the weekend. Someone doing that will absolutely be entering the overtrained state on Th or F, just like you described.

Some will say “That’s obv.” But it’s obviously not obvious to many, many people.
[/quote]

So by not training at all they are in fact overtraining?

23

This relates to a really great article on this site a few months ago called “Max out on squats every day” or something of that kind. I think being sore, being tired, and being overtrained are significantly different conditions which may have some overlap (I’m picturing a Venn diagram). Personally, I am contemplating throwing together a string of repeatedly hard max-effort type workouts and going until I can find out where my “overtraining line” is crossed. Then back off a little.

24

Isn’t this a bit of a semantics issue? Ok, so noone is “overtraining.” But even if you aren’t physically sick from your workouts, and requiring months of bed rest, isn’t it still possible to train too much or too hard where you aren’t gaining optimally (over-training…)? if you are always sore (in the target muscle) before you start, dreading workouts, slow or no progress, sore joints, you are probably over-training in the sense that you would get better results by doing less than you currently are. I always assumed that is what most people are talking about. Maybe “overreaching” is the more accurate technical term…

25

Similar to the post above me, I never use the term overtraining to signify the extreme almost ‘medical’ term that people seem to conveniently use when it comes to over-reaching a person’s recovery capability.

Long term over-reaching leads to over-training, why do people have to be extreme when talking about things? Also, why does no-one ever take into account genetics/drug use?

It just seems daft all this “arggg, there is NO over-training!!!”

Maybe we should invent a new word lol. I hate to argue semantics here, but heck, if “over-training” (READ: short term over-reaching) didn’t exist everyone would be lifting pushing/lifting 2000lbs by now.

Let’s all just train every day, twice a day, because 365 days of adding 5lbs to the bar = better progress (obviously)

If over-reaching didn’t exist, why do athletes periodize their training to make continual progress? Why do powerlifters etc deload?

I get that people over-use the word, but common, why deny it completely?

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“If you overtrained, it means that you didn’t train hard enough to handle that level of training, so you weren’t overtrained: you were actually undertrained to begin with. So there’s the rule again: The guy who trains the hardest, the most, wins.” - Floyd Landis.

1 Like
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not sure i’m getting this, but the OP is comparing training schedules of Olympic lifters/Pro Athletes and Pro Bodybuilders to the average person who actually works during the day, and has to train at night?

Everything about the aforementioned athletes day is based strictly around training. Yeah Ronnie was a cop etc etc, but we’re talking about your average person being compared to an elite athlete.

Agreed to the fact that it’s more of an undereating issue, but again, there are very few occupations that allow you the luxury to actually eat/rest/get massages/rehab/ like the athletes you mentioned. Too many variables to make a direct comparison, and that doesn’t even include family obligations, fiscal obligations etc etc

I’m much more impressed with the progress that some people here and in general achieve with all that said, who fit in diet/training/rest/family/budget/work/ and so on and still get the results they do. Basically it’s how well you can juggle all this

28

I see a lot of “eat more” type advice in here to overcome overtraining. What would you guys suggest to do during a cut when overtraining symptoms are occurring? Eating more is not an option at that point.

29

imo there is point to deload if you are concerned about poundages/performance. This “deload” period is allowing supercompensation to occur,this means ligher training for week i.e . Also OP is right, it is VERY HARD to overtrain, but also it is important to allow your body bulid up to the point that you can put more stress on it. throwing everything you got all at once will only lead to stagnation in future. maximal efect with minimal effort is the goal

30

[quote]Swashblucker wrote:
maximal efect with minimal effort is the goal[/quote]

If that’s the level headed type of statements that are being thrown around, no-one would have an issue with it…

It’s when people automatically think it’s hardcore to insult experienced (and intelligent) people who’ve listened to their own body (e.g. Yates, C_C etc) and say that their whole training philosophy is a heap of shyt - that’s when it gets retarded.

Sure, tell the weekend warriors to stop drinking, get serious about their training and eat for it, but don’t tell those who’ve spent 20+ years training and listening to their own body that their “less is more” approach is misguided.

31

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:
There is no overtraining only under eating![/quote]

yup, i said that at the other thread and was almost gunned down.

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[quote]xXxJoKeRxXx wrote:
I’m much more impressed with the progress that some people here and in general achieve with all that said, who fit in diet/training/rest/family/budget/work/ and so on and still get the results they do. Basically it’s how well you can juggle all this[/quote]

Ultimately the ability to balance these things determine success.

33

[quote]2020Wellness wrote:
I see a lot of “eat more” type advice in here to overcome overtraining. What would you guys suggest to do during a cut when overtraining symptoms are occurring? Eating more is not an option at that point.[/quote]

eat more lean protein.

34

I got to watch a guy train for a contest and was training upwards of 20hrs a week for multiple weeks on very low calories and was not overtrainig. He was sore and tired but not overtrained. he pushed through and got 1st in the super heavy class.

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Most of the time when people bitch about overtraining, it’s their SLEEP that is inadequate - failing to eat enough will stunt growth but won’t have the same impact on being able to perform under the bar as fatigue. A normal guy age 16-36 is able to train pretty darned hard almost every day irrespective of nutrition if he’s able to get a solid 8 hours every single night. He won’t get huge undereating, but he won’t be “overtraining” if he gets real sleep every single night.

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[quote]xXxJoKeRxXx wrote:
not sure i’m getting this, but the OP is comparing training schedules of Olympic lifters/Pro Athletes and Pro Bodybuilders to the average person who actually works during the day, and has to train at night?

Everything about the aforementioned athletes day is based strictly around training. Yeah Ronnie was a cop etc etc, but we’re talking about your average person being compared to an elite athlete.

Agreed to the fact that it’s more of an undereating issue, but again, there are very few occupations that allow you the luxury to actually eat/rest/get massages/rehab/ like the athletes you mentioned. Too many variables to make a direct comparison, and that doesn’t even include family obligations, fiscal obligations etc etc

I’m much more impressed with the progress that some people here and in general achieve with all that said, who fit in diet/training/rest/family/budget/work/ and so on and still get the results they do. Basically it’s how well you can juggle all this[/quote]

I was mainly using those types of training schedules to show what kind of training load the body is capable of handling. Those athletes are obviously training under optimal conditions, but a regular guy who is eating enough and not working a hard manual labor job should have no problems training hard and recovering.

The post was mainly spurred out of a litany of posts I have been seeing lately. Guys concerned they will be overtraining if they have a back day AND an arms day… Guys concerned about being overtrained if they train more than 4 times a week.

My point was that its VERY hard to be legitimately over trained. I know of MANY “regular joes” who train their ASSES off and are natural, raw, with jobs. These people do not concern themselves with such nonsense, and instead strive to lift as hard as possible EVERY day they can, sometimes twice, and still manage to grow and get strong(er)

Lift as if over training doesn’t exist, and then back off every once a while.

37

[quote]tveddy wrote:

[quote]2020Wellness wrote:
I see a lot of “eat more” type advice in here to overcome overtraining. What would you guys suggest to do during a cut when overtraining symptoms are occurring? Eating more is not an option at that point.[/quote]

eat more lean protein.[/quote]

And if I eat more protein, where should I remove calories from to equal total calorie consumption out? I would be unable to raise calories, so eating more protein will mean that I have to remove calories from either carbs or fats.

38

[quote]2020Wellness wrote:

[quote]tveddy wrote:

[quote]2020Wellness wrote:
I see a lot of “eat more” type advice in here to overcome overtraining. What would you guys suggest to do during a cut when overtraining symptoms are occurring? Eating more is not an option at that point.[/quote]

eat more lean protein.[/quote]

And if I eat more protein, where should I remove calories from to equal total calorie consumption out? I would be unable to raise calories, so eating more protein will mean that I have to remove calories from either carbs or fats.
[/quote]

I’m glad you read this post… it partially explains why I don’t believe in your overtraining system.

You seem like you want to portray yourself as some kind of expert on things, so I’m confused why your worried about calories in vs calories out? Thats a very basic weight loss theory that simply doesn’t work for bodybuilders and athletes. A calorie of protein does not hold the same value of a calorie of carb or protein.

Be well.

39

[quote]solidkhalid wrote:

[quote]2020Wellness wrote:

[quote]tveddy wrote:

[quote]2020Wellness wrote:
I see a lot of “eat more” type advice in here to overcome overtraining. What would you guys suggest to do during a cut when overtraining symptoms are occurring? Eating more is not an option at that point.[/quote]

eat more lean protein.[/quote]

And if I eat more protein, where should I remove calories from to equal total calorie consumption out? I would be unable to raise calories, so eating more protein will mean that I have to remove calories from either carbs or fats.
[/quote]

I’m glad you read this post… it partially explains why I don’t believe in your overtraining system.

You seem like you want to portray yourself as some kind of expert on things, so I’m confused why your worried about calories in vs calories out? Thats a very basic weight loss theory that simply doesn’t work for bodybuilders and athletes. A calorie of protein does not hold the same value of a calorie of carb or protein.

Be well.[/quote]

Are trying to tell me that if I’m eating in a calorie surplus, and my surplus calories are coming from protein, that I’ll be able to keep losing fat consistently? It sounds like you are recommending a calorie surplus of protein for an effective cut. Is that the case? If it’s not the case, I’m not sure what you’re getting at with your post then…

40

This is such a silly thread!

Bodybuildings latest fad is “You can’t train too much”. Of course you bloody can!

Most people can probably push their recovery a lot more than they do. But there’s also a lot of newbs lately who weigh a buck nothing and think they need to train twice a day six days a week to make optimal progress.

YOU DONT!

Advanced lifters probably do. But this all feeds into the paranoia skinny newbs have where they always want to be in the gym. Of course it doesn’t hurt supplement sales either cause you’ll need more supps to recover from them workouts.

I’ve been doing this long enough to see these fads come and go. The best path is always down the middle.

Stimulate, Don’t Annihilate.