T Nation

yeah, america is really terrible

kike, please understand that it is my opinion that those mexicans that you talk about are one of the most incredibly DAMAGING things to our country. i can’t wait to hear a response that this stirs up. i am of the opinion that the allowance of large number of low payed, low skilled workers in this country has given rich companies the ability to create a perpetual underclass. why pay some guy in ohio who is in a union, $50000 a year and a pension to work in a steel factory or slaughter house his entire life when you can move your facility to nebraska and pay some non english speaking immigrants who have no idea of what a union is, a slave wage (read the book fast food nation if you doubt what i am saying is true). i believe that this large influx of non english speaking immigrants and movement of work overseas is destroying this country all for the sake of making products a couple of dollars cheaper and the companies who make those products a couple million richer. i personally make it a point to buy american whenever i can. so what if i pay a few more dollars. i think that it is bullshit that my gym pays people $7.00 an hour to clean our facility. (which they do a shitty job of cause they are all sleeping in the janitors room cause their diets are shit and they are working two other jobs). the funny thing is that my company can keep doing that cause there will always be access to people willing to take that wage cause it is so much better then the money they can make in mexico and guatamala. being the fact that none of them speak english or have time to better educate themselves cause they are working all the time, creates a permanant underclass that nobody can compete with. o.k. i have said my peace, now let me have it!

I don’t hate the anyone. (except rapists, murderers and racists)

What I meant was that isolationism is a bad idea for the US and that the basic idea of, “Fuck anyone who questions the US” is not all that great for our image overseas.

BTW I love the US, but not as a 4-year-old loves his mommy. I love it as an adult, the good and the bad.

“with great power comes great responsibility”— Spiderman’s Uncle-haha, nothing like throwing in a spiderman quote to ruin my credibility.

Shank, even though I understand your point I also understand that is the government itself who has let in a lot of people from a lot of other nations such as Somalia, Vietnam, Europe among others into this country. While yes, I understand how illegal immigration might affect this country I also understand that it is not only Mexicans who cause this damage to the US.
It still sounds fascit in my opinion to do many of the things you mention in your post. And yes, I’m gonna get torched for this but also many of this problems have been brought by America onto itself. And you know what I mean… Yet, I still respect your opinions! Peace.

I think unions hurt America a lot more than the people I see picking lettuce at 6:30 am on my way to work.

As always chrisr, you have something intelligent to say… Right on!
As a mexican it may seem like it is non of my business to raise an opinion about the US, but I live here and it does concern me especially when they’re involved in the future of my country. While I respect all opinons, Shank it does scare me that yours sound fascist. No disrespect.

Solomon, being an alien doesn’t make anyone a criminal, even illegal aliens aren’t criminals! This country’s foundation is immigration, call it Italian, Irish, African, German, Finish British… Remember that some of the mexicans in this country were already here when Santa Ana sold half of our territory to the US and they stayed…

Uh, by definition being an illegal alien makes you a criminal, doesn’t it?

Solomon, being an alien doesn’t make anyone a criminal, even illegal aliens aren’t criminals! This country’s foundation is immigration, call it Italian, Irish, African, German, Finish British… Remember that some of the mexicans in this country were already here when Santa Ana sold half of our territory to the US and they stayed…

That’s BS. They’re illegal. They need to get deported.

My ancestors came over here from Germany and Austria and did it ALL legally.

The Mexicans can damn well do the same or they can get kicked out.

I guess to kike, a fascist is someone that doesn’t let them do whatever the hell they want.

And please people, get it straight…outsourcing creates and keeps American jobs.

If American companies can’t outsource to stay competitive with other companies (like foreign ones), then they go out of business, and ALL the American jobs are lost, ALL the work goes overseas, LESS competition, and well, that’s not good.

We should NEVER give power to the UN. Look at what happened with iraq…we had a problem with them and we were supposed to consult France first? Well, France, Germany, and Russia all were buddies with Sadam so they told us no, we couldn’t attack him.

This is the kind of stuff you want?

UN = Useless Nations

Muscle Rob- Right on the money.

Hey kike, i almost fell off my chair when i read your post! i cannot believe it, for the first time ever on any chat room i have been on, have i met someone mature enough to respect yet disagree with somebody else’s opinion. you can call me a fascist any day!
mike cruickshank

Tok- the nuclear stuff the soviets had were more basic than fat man and little boy. the “fleets” they had were old and worn out in comparison to the US stock. In reality, from what I have read and seen, the threat was minor at best. This is, however, in hindsight, which is always 20/20. maybe we should remember that with this 9/11 hearings stuff.

this is a great post shank. the fact that it got a strong negative reaction from some of these yoyo’s on here is proof the truth hurts!

Oh…yes…we are a country of immigrants…but my ancestors did it the LEGAL way.
Legal=on the side of the law
Illegal=on the WRONG side of the law

One nation under God

rob,i don’t get it, please explain this to me, how does outsourcing save american jobs?


Ok, say I’m an American company manufacturing and selling widgets.

There is competition from a foreign company also manufacturing and selling widgets.

These foreign companies can produce the same product for MUCH cheaper because they have to pay less for taxes, regulations, and employee wages.

So now I am in competition with this foreign widget company.

I cannot remain competitive in prices because I have to pay substantially more money in taxes, have more regulations, and I have a unionized work force that demands $20/hour.

So, if I don’t do anything, I will go out of business because this foreign company can sell the same product for so much cheaper and no one will buy from me. ALL my employees will lose their jobs, and people that do business with me to provide the goods to produce the widgets will lose my business. So as you can see, there is a danger of major job losses (and competition).

BUT, if I am allowed to outsource, I can send manufacturing jobs to somewhere that is cheap enough for me to remain competitive.

This means I can now remain competitive with the foreign widget company.

Yes, some manufacturing jobs here are LOST, but let’s look at what we get as a result.

–Keeping or creating competition

–Creating MORE American jobs that have to deal with the increased business that the widget company can now do due to the lower prices. This includes more business for the people that provide the goods for me to produce the widgets, and also more business for the people that buy the widgets. All of this creates new jobs.

–Giving jobs to other countries. This can help their economy.

–Keeping American jobs that all could have been lost had outsourcing been deemed illegal.

–Lower prices for customers

–Increase in the economy due to lower prices. If it’s cheaper people will buy more.

–Increase in government income for important things such as war. This is due to the increased economy.

I’m sure there are more reasons, but i can’t think of them at the moment.

to all you guys bitching about illegal immigrants, here’s something from the greatest website in the universe, and you know what?? He’s spot on with this one.


MUSCLEROB, I’m not saying let them do whatever the hell they want… I’m aware that being illegally in itself constitutes breaking the law thus making someone a criminal, yet I do think those people who are illegal are also hardworking citizens. And PtrDR, What did your ancestors do legally? Oh yeah, they almost annihilated the American Indians to take away their teritory (which you did) oh, excuse me that was legal. And what about the thousands of Americans who ILLEGALLY own beaches in Can Cun, Los Cabos, Huatulco, etc? What do you think we should do with them? What do you think we should with the thousands of American students who come down to Mexico in Spring Break to precisely do what they CAN NOT DO IN THE US? And lastly, what should the US do with illegal Europeans?
And MuSCLEROB, who do you think supported bin Laden and Saddam when it was convinient for the US to do so??? Of course the US. So please the speech about France and Germany being buddies with Saddam can not be taken seriously if it’s not in the right context. And SHANK I DO respect your opinions and everyone else’s, I was just saying that some of the things you said sound fascist, not that you’re one.


I don’t give a shit if they’re hard working. GET OUT. You’re here ILLEGALLY. You’re a burden on our country. 25% of illegals are on welfare.

Now you’re assuming people’s ancestors stole land from Native Americans? Mine sure as hell didn’t, as they didn’t get here until the 1800s. Most people’s ancestors did.

And you somehow think that because land was stolen from Native Americans that this somehow justifies people being here illegally?? Let me guess, you’re for reparations for blacks?

Yeah, people like you love to say “well the US supported Sadam and created Osama Bin Laden.” I got news for you, if we never delt with anyone that did bad things, we wouldn’t deal with just about anyone. But trying to prevent war through the UN because you have a big oil contract? That’s why they shouldn’t have a say in what we do.

Can I ask you one question? Do you think Sadam was a fascist?

Kike, Sorry for the delay. I will have to disagree with you. Entering this country illegally makes you a criminal. I don?t care if you come in with a student visa and drop your classes or you sneak across the border. Things have changed a great deal from when people can just come and go as they pleased. When you mention that our country?s foundation is immigration, I would disagree, but I understand your point. The times that I think you are referring to was before welfare and income taxes as we know it. The world was smaller then. There are legal means for getting into the country. Most nations have similar laws. It has been brought up that Illegal Aliens work harder and better than American workers. I don?t disagree with that. I think that as a nation we have lost the pride of doing a good job. The Illegals weaken our society by coming here and using our resources i.e. welfare, medical care and not paying taxes. They are also being taken advantage of and in some cases beaten and robbed. If I say lock down our borders and deport all Illegals, it is not that I hate them or wish them evil. It is just that I do not want them to hinder me from supporting my family or providing a good environment for them. I simply offer two suggestions to individuals who want opportunities and freedom. First, come to America legally, work hard, contribute to society and pay your taxes. Second, Stay at home and solve the problems with your own country. Either way is a viable option. Please understand that it is not that I do not want them here. It is that I do not want them hear if they are here illegally.

Ren ? I like the passion that you put into your posts, but I thought that the incident that was discussed in your like just as idiotic this time as it was when the event actually happened. I am not debating that everyone deserves equal pay for equal work. I am saying that if you are here illegally you should not be working at all. In the incident with Wal-Mart, I thought that Wal-Mart should have been severely punished for hiring illegal aliens. I may be unlike most, but I wouldn?t mind paying more for services or items if I knew that it was strengthening my country. I have not even discussed the security issues that are present.

Me Solomon Grundy