T Nation

Yahweh: Exclusively the Jewish God?

So, to summarize, the Old and New Testament probably shouldn’t be presented as the same religion?

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[quote]Oleena wrote:
So, to summarize, the Old and New Testament probably shouldn’t be presented as the same religion?[/quote]

This one yours, too? Just asking.

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:
So, to summarize, the Old and New Testament probably shouldn’t be presented as the same religion?[/quote]

This one yours, too? Just asking.[/quote]

Nope.

[quote]Oleena wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:
So, to summarize, the Old and New Testament probably shouldn’t be presented as the same religion?[/quote]

This one yours, too? Just asking.[/quote]

Nope.[/quote]

Just doing a little detective work.

LOL

Well, you can take the excessively long and convoluted reconciliation offered by other Christians, but the obvious answer is…

God kinda hates the jews too.

[quote]fibroblaster wrote:
It would also make sense that Salvation was necessary due to people being oppressed by a god of war.

1 Samuel 15: Samuel said to Saul, ?I am the one the LORD sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the LORD. 2 This is what the LORD Almighty says: ?I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.??

4 So Saul summoned the men and mustered them at Telaim?two hundred thousand foot soldiers and ten thousand from Judah. 5 Saul went to the city of Amalek and set an ambush in the ravine. 6 Then he said to the Kenites, ?Go away, leave the Amalekites so that I do not destroy you along with them; for you showed kindness to all the Israelites when they came up out of Egypt.? So the Kenites moved away from the Amalekites.

7 Then Saul attacked the Amalekites all the way from Havilah to Shur, near the eastern border of Egypt. 8 He took Agag king of the Amalekites alive, and all his people he totally destroyed with the sword. 9 But Saul and the army spared Agag and the best of the sheep and cattle, the fat calves[b] and lambs?everything that was good. These they were unwilling to destroy completely, but everything that was despised and weak they totally destroyed.

10 Then the word of the LORD came to Samuel: 11 ?I regret that I have made Saul king, because he has turned away from me and has not carried out my instructions.? Samuel was angry, and he cried out to the LORD all that night.

How can this be a good God? I have tried to understand through my Catholic Theology studies, but it doesn’t add up. This God kills children. This God seems to be ruthless.[/b][/quote]

It doesn’t sound to me like you’ve spent a lot of time reading the OT. As you go through the history books, wisdom books and prophetic books some very distinct themes and features keep popping up? Do you know what they are? If you did spend enough time with it, you would realize what I am saying. I am being deliberately vague to see what you know. What you think is incomparable, or different is not really. The Torah, is as much a constitution for a theocracy, in as much as a ‘religious text’. There’s a reason they are called law books. Things change when you get out of the Pentateuch.

[quote]Oleena wrote:
So, to summarize, the Old and New Testament probably shouldn’t be presented as the same religion?[/quote]

You need both to understand. To understand scripture you need some fundamental bases. First, you have to know Genesis, every book in the bible makes reference to it at some point. Second, there are themes and ideas that the NT builds on that is rooted in the OT. You can get a great deal out of the NT without the OT, but if you want to fully understand the NT, you need to understand the OT. It’s not more complicated than the NT makes reference to stuff in the OT, and if you don’t know the OT stuff, that stuff is vague and elusive.

[quote]fibroblaster wrote:
What I never understood was why is the Holocaust considered such a big deal…[/quote]

Seriously?

I am sensing a thinly veiled anti-Christian sentiment from this fella all dressed up and a Christian, but dragging out the same old, tired atheist talking points that I here over and over again. Why don’t just post a link to infidels.org or something, it’d be faster than acting like a Christian. You seem to have a child’s grip on the faith, at best.

I am going to go ahead and call bullshit on your “Catholicism”.

Don’t let it drag you under the bridge.

[quote]pat wrote:
I am being deliberately vague to see what you know. [/quote]

Yeah, but don’t try doing the same thing to Pat, or he’ll throw a hissy fit.

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
I am being deliberately vague to see what you know. [/quote]

Yeah, but don’t try doing the same thing to Pat, or he’ll throw a hissy fit. [/quote]

Dumb != vague. Don’t asked ridiculous questions based on a book you never read and there will be no issues.

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:
So, to summarize, the Old and New Testament probably shouldn’t be presented as the same religion?[/quote]

You need both to understand. To understand scripture you need some fundamental bases. First, you have to know Genesis, every book in the bible makes reference to it at some point. Second, there are themes and ideas that the NT builds on that is rooted in the OT. You can get a great deal out of the NT without the OT, but if you want to fully understand the NT, you need to understand the OT. It’s not more complicated than the NT makes reference to stuff in the OT, and if you don’t know the OT stuff, that stuff is vague and elusive.[/quote]

Hm. I notice that in your posts, you don’t directly address any of the points brought up by this guy. I’ll be a little more interested in your responses when you do.

So, just skimmed over the whole thread. Not ONE person has directly responded to ANY of the scriptural points brought up by this guy. Instead, they’ve all repeated the same lines “Haha. You’re ignorant. You don’t know what you’re talking about.”

Look, if he is ignorant and you are better informed, then it should be EASY for you to DIRECTLY shoot down every one of his scriptural points.

Until I see someone do that, I’m going to assume you all are bluffing; you are just as mystified by his points as he is.

[quote]fibroblaster wrote:
Growing up Roman Catholic, I always had a difficulty reconciling the God of the Old Testament with the Jesus. I know this isn’t just me, for this inconsistency was noticed extremely early in the history of the church. Marcion of Sinope was the first Christian who pointed out this apparent difference. A long line of heretics followed his path, notably the gnostic movement. Eventually, they were squashed, but their writings have been retained in discovery of the Nag Hammadi Library. I have been catechized, attended Catholic school for 16 years, and still practice. To this day I cannot help but notice that OT God (YHWH) and Christ didn’t seem to match with their messages. I have done plenty of research regarding this matter. As much as I cannot stand Atheists, I understand their concern when they point out the rather bizaare behavior of YHWH, who seems to be rather petty and angry in the narratives of the old testament. Here are some examples/food for thought

[/quote]

  1. Jesus didn’t use the Tetragrammaton (the Holy name of God) because Jesus was an observant Jew. Jews didn’t pronounce the Tetragrammaton except by the High Priest, in the Holy Temple.

  2. Go actually read the Old Testament. God was EXTREMELY forgiving and VERY SLOW to anger. For example, he gave Pharoah 20 chances, slowly increased severity of things before moving on.

  3. I am Catholic (and a bad one at that) and anyone who sat through confirmation classes for communion would not espouse the crap you have posted.

Well, I usually do not feed the troll.
At least, not when said troll is trying to find “scriptural points” to justify some antisemite bullshit.

apparently, the OP, after a guenuine and extensive study of the scripture, came to the honest, candid conclusion that :
YHWH =/= Elohim
Elohim = the true god
YHWH = the devil
and since YHWH is “exclusively the jewish God”, the Jews are just a bunch of followers of the devil
therefore he Holocaust was not a bad thing, after all.

Do you really want us to “discuss” THAT ?
seriously ?

If you want to argue about the “discrepancies in the bible”, you should do it in another thread. A “clean” one.

[quote]Oleena wrote:
So, to summarize, the Old and New Testament probably shouldn’t be presented as the same religion?[/quote]

Nonsense.

[quote]Oleena wrote:
So, just skimmed over the whole thread. Not ONE person has directly responded to ANY of the scriptural points brought up by this guy. Instead, they’ve all repeated the same lines “Haha. You’re ignorant. You don’t know what you’re talking about.”

Look, if he is ignorant and you are better informed, then it should be EASY for you to DIRECTLY shoot down every one of his scriptural points.

Until I see someone do that, I’m going to assume you all are bluffing; you are just as mystified by his points as he is.[/quote]

When he or you, or anybody else for that matter actually read the Bible then we can talk about it. Many of the points are answered with in the book. Wanna know what it says? Read it.

[quote]Oleena wrote:
So, just skimmed over the whole thread. Not ONE person has directly responded to ANY of the scriptural points brought up by this guy. Instead, they’ve all repeated the same lines “Haha. You’re ignorant. You don’t know what you’re talking about.”

Look, if he is ignorant and you are better informed, then it should be EASY for you to DIRECTLY shoot down every one of his scriptural points.

Until I see someone do that, I’m going to assume you all are bluffing; you are just as mystified by his points as he is.[/quote]

Yes, we should jump through hoops for every one of your folks’ alt-identities. And I’m flat convinced one of you made up this particular one. The multi-bible verse copy and paste posts have simply gotten old. “Explain the relationship of the old and new covenants and testaments, of the hebrews and God, of the gentiles and God, the law, the fulfillment of the law…here’s a bunch of verses, get to it.” We read our bibles, attend our sermons/homilies, read our theologians, etc. It’s the internet age, do you own research. You’ll even find older posts back when this stuff was actually entertained on this forum. I personally am not swayed by YOUR bluff to engage someone’s fictional identity. I wasted enough of my time on your own secret identity at one point. Dang near ignored you for that. Still don’t know why I didn’t.