T Nation

WW3 might have just started, God help us all!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3165394.stm

Israel has just attacked Syria. If people don’t pull their heads in very, very soon it will be the start of a much wider conflict. Arab and Islamic countries (i.e. nations not groups, big difference!) will support Syria and America and others will support Israel.

This doesn’t necessarilly mean a huge war is about to break out. Granted it is a defenite escalation, and it does now give other arab nations a wide excuse to get involved. But the attack didn’t cause any fatalities as far as I read, and Syria will likely try to go through the UN in an effort to justify their cause throughout the world. Unfortunately, even though I strongly beleive that Syria and others harbor terrorists who on a daily basis threaten Isreal, for whatever reason the world is blind to that, and unfortunately, this may just paint Isreal in an agressive light.

I was thinking the same thing earlier today and didnt even hear about the attack.

It does seem we may be in the early stages of a potentially disastrous WWIII. Note the word ‘may’.

Hey rember Israel did the same thing to iraq…remeber the Nuke plant the French were building. This war has been going on for 30 years with Syria so lets not get to excited just yet. Don’t forget about North Korea he is more likly to start slinging Nukes than anyone else … I mean you know someone who watches cartoons 13 hours a day and stars in his own horror films is a wacko.
Sleep tight
Colin

“may”

let’s hope so.

Yes, this is a difficult situation. The treatment of Palestinians by Israelis is nothing short of deplorable (check out http://electronicintifada.net/new.shtml), and terrorism by Arabs or by Israelis against civilians is morally reprehensible.

The primary issue in the Middle East is the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, which Israel won from Egypt and Jordan in the 1967 war. Now, by all historical norms, Israel should annex the land and the people, or they should free the land and the people. However, Israel wants the land, but wants to either ethnically cleanse the land or have an apartheid state. Israel’s border wall that encroaches into the West Bank and Israeli settlements in the occupied territories show this to be true.

This problem should be between Israel, the Palestinians, and Israel’s neighbors. However, the US has gotten involved as an ally of Israel, so we tend to turn a blind eye to the human rights abuses there. This is why we tend to be seen as biased when we complain of the human rights abuses of others. Unfortunately, this gets little, if any, media coverage.

We may, in fact, end up with WWIII from this. Too bad the American people don’t know more about the roots of the conflict.

Mark R:

It’s too bad that people like yourself don’t have a better understanding of the situation, and that people like yourself look at a poor site like the one you linked to and automatically beleive everything in it. Especially when it publicly states that it supports the Palestinian point of view.

That site reminds me of Iraq’s information minister : )

Your worst point was in Isreal wanting land, nothing could be farther from the truth. The point is, every arab nation wants the land that Isreal has, and to be rid of the Jews.

Bottom line, and you know it’s true Mark, even if Isreal were to give up the disputed territories, they would still suffer continuous terror attacks targeting it’s civillians. And then Isreal would target those terrorsists, and then people like yourself would read a biased web site and make arrogant assumptions about understanding the situation because they know a little bit of histroy, when in fact, the past history has very little to do with the situation, and more to do with attempts to find an excuse to be rid of Isreal.

The bottom line again, is that even if Isreal were to give up the disputed territories, they would still be the target of attacks.

yeah, the US needs to restrain its veto power and slap israel in the hand, it’s getting into too much trouble. everytime israel does somethin to the arab states, the arabs despise the US even more for taking israel’s side. that’s why we end up with planes full of fuel in our buildings.

israelis deserve to the right to exist in peace, as do the palestinians.

i don’t think this is going to lead to ww3, but it is certainly gonna raise the level of tension in the region.

agathos,

regarding “disputed territories”.

the only govermnet that disputes the territories is israel. virtually every other government, including the US regards tham as occupied.

danh, I do understand that, and must say that my last post was typed out fairly quickly and really came off a bit more aggresive than I had hoped as well as a bit misleading.

I also think that Isreal needs to find better solutions to combat the terror, however, when so many other nations actively support these groups what are they supposed to do?

Does anyone disagree with my main point though?

If Isreal were to give up the lands, create a Palestinian state, would they not still be subject to terror? I am almost certainly sure that they would, and that the issue of “land” is more just acting as the current excuse for terror attacks against Isreal.

Israel didn’t attack ‘Syria’ per se, rather they attacked an Islamic Jihad training camp withing the Syrian border. Much different than if they struck Syrian targets. That said, it should be an interesting next little while. On another note, North Korea escalates the nuclear stand-off again. IMHO, they’re BEGGING for carpet-bombing!!! Remember the saying “Play with fire and you’ll get burned”???

the whole notion of a pre-emptive strike is a bad thing. if any country can claim that it is acting in self defense by attacking another country first then the whole world becomes a dangerous place. just as israel bombed the iraqi nuclear facility in the 1980’s, an arab state can claim that because israel has nuclear weapons, then they should be able to attack it as well. there are too many powderkegs nowadays and these kind of actions are begging for a ww3. (india/pakistan, israel/arab states, north korea/US, china/taiwan).

agathos, i agree that arabs have a deep-rooted hostilities toward israelis. these hostilites come about mainly from:

  1. the creation of israel in 1947
  2. expatriation of arabs who had lived on israeli lands
  3. extended occupation of palestinian territories, and
  4. sloppy attacks against suspected terrorists that take many innocent lives

when the major players in the mideast conflict address these issues then we will perhaps quell the terrorist threat to israel and the US.

despite these points, arabs do not help the situation by blowing themselves up and taking innocent people.

many special interest think tanks try to simplify the situation by saying “muslims hate democracy and therefore hate the US and Israel”. these mantras reach the average US and israeli citizens and they elect leaders that offer ineffective solutions. that doesn’t help either.

i believe if we don’t do something about the situation quickly, then this could further radicalize potential terrorists around the world.

Agathos,

While the Arabs aren’t helping their own cause with the terrorist strikes, it appears that Israel pisses these people off on purpose to keep them agitated, so that they can make more land grabs. Peace should be relatively easy to achieve. Israel needs to dismantle their settlements and leave the occupied territories, or they need to unify into a single nation. Needless to say, locking people down in refugee camps for generations is bound to create some hard feelings.

Keep in mind that Israelis believe that they were given this land by God, and that they typically act accordingly. If this isn’t true, then why do they continue building settlements?

Also, as for the site I referenced, their reports are fairly consistent with reports from other reputable non-US sources, and with the US State Department Human Rights Report. The biased sites, unfortunately, appear to be the US-based ones.

Agathos,

Since you asked – I disagree with your assertions concerning terror against Israel. They’ve made peace with Egypt, and Yassir Arafat has recognized the nation of Israel. Also, Israel won their land through war. The ‘hatred’ of Arabs now appears to be driven by the plight of the Palestinians. Let me ask you – do you believe that Palestinian civilians in the West Bank and Gaza are treated well by the Israelis? How would you feel in similar circumstances?

Israel could have easily had peace in the aftermath of Operation Iraqi Freedom. They merely had to follow the road map with some enthusiasm, and stop the oppression of the Palestinian people. However, they chose war and violence to steal what they believe is theirs already. The rest of the world realizes this; it’s just the US that thinks ethnic cleansing is okay when done by Israelis.

As for your comments on my understanding of the region, I do have a better understanding of the conflict beyond what’s on the site I referenced. The site merely provides an opposing point of view to the typical US media reports. What is a shame is that most Americans have no understanding of this conflict, yet they have strong opinions on it.

Perhaps you’ve only read US mass-media reports on this conflict, and you feel as though that’s all there is. I encourage you to research this in greater detail.

regarding israeli land grabs:

check out deuteronomy chapter 20 in it’s entirety (it’s not that long) and you’ll see the policies which the modern state of israel goes by.

http://wyllie.lib.virginia.edu:8086/perl/toccer-new?id=KjvDeut.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public?=20&division=div1

some people take religion way too seriously.

Danh:

Your reference to Deuteronomy really is misled, and serves to mislead others. It’s a poor reference. I might as well have pointed out that many arabs referencing the teaching of the Koran beleive in the total eradication of the Jews, waging war and sacrificing themselves to rid their nations of the “infedel” however to do so, although it would parallel your argument, would demonstrate poor understanding, and stereotypical assertions on my part as your argument did.

Mark R:

Frist I want to say that I respect your understanding and openmindedness and again point out that I don’t beleive that Isreal has totally handled the situation as well as they could have.

However I do beleive that on many many occasions as Isreal halted it’s incursions and began tearing down it’s checkpoints, etc. that terror bombings continued, despite cease fire agreements. I beleive that Isreal could have been more patient and accepted a few bombings w/out retaliation in an effort to continue down the road of peace, but they can hardly be to blame for failure of peace efforts as terror bombings have continued regardless of Isreal’s actions.

Also, my opinions are not limited to us mass media, although I do find entertainment in viewing differences in their reports vs. others. I again am not supportive of Isreal’s methods.

For a good read on the subject check out a book called Revenge (Lara Blumingfield i beleive) although I beleive it still slants slightly to the Isreali side, it does provide a better understanding of the Palestinian lifestyle, althoug it skips daily incursions from the IDF, etc…

NEWS FLASH

World War III started about 2 years ago. I believe history will view the Sept 11 attacks as the start of the war. Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. are all simply engagements in the broader war.

Just my 2 cents.

agathos,

the reason i referenced deuteronomy is because it describes the notion of a greater israel and the methods by which it must be achieved. i believe there are religious extremists in israel who are following deuteronomy 20 by the letter based on otherwise unexplicable current events. check out the reference to building a bulwark=wall against israel’s enemies in deuteronomy 20:20 and tell me the new “security fense” has nothing to do with that.

although i don’t know much about the koran, i do know that they are asked to rid their lands of infidels.

i also know that for a long time before 1947, muslims and jews lived together peacefully for the most part.

it wasn’t until 1947 that tensions rose. in my opinion ben-gurion and his terrorist organization had a lot to do with that.

when it seemed like there was going to be peace in the middle east in 1993, it was an israeli religious zealot who shot prime minister rabin and the region has been going backward since then with netanyahu, peres, and sharon.

in my opinion israeli fanaticism is the driving force for instability in the region.

NEWS FLASH

Israel/Zionists/America/Western World are the same thing to Bin Lardin and co. What was troubling about an attack on Syria was that it has the potential to rapidly spread the Israelii/Palestinian conflict. The America government has not condemned the attack and looks like it is fishing for a reason to go to war with Syria and its supporter Iran very soon. The rhetoric on Syria and Iran is the same as on Afghanistan and Iraq (i.e. harbours terrorists etc).

Who is running the American government?

N.B. I have no particular axe to grind, but am just vary concerned about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict leading to a much larger conflict.