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hey fellow strenght atheltes .. ive came across the new WS4SB III and i just felll inlove with the whole offseason template and would love to start it soon, but i also read peoples comments on the WS4SB II and said it gave them better results rather than the 3rd one .. which one do you think is more affective and better?

btw anyone here is doing the 3rd one and woujld like to share ur results that woujld be nice and anyone would share there results on the 2nd one that would be cool too!

WS4SB II - http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=667308

WS4SB III - http://defrancotraining.com/articles/articles.htm


The 3rd one hasnt been out for very long. How can people have had reasonable time to compare gains? I thought it was a variation of the first one, with a few other options to personalise it.


Yeah that's right. WS4SB III has been out for two or three weeks only. So I agree with Beatnik. People haven't had enough time to compare. I would go with the third version, as it's the most refined one. But feel free to try the second version, as it's great too, and you will get some good damn results indeed.


I am using many of the tips from WS4SB 2 & 3 in my weekly training template. It's the best of both worlds.

Find what works for you and use a little bit from both!


Like the others who have replied, I am surprised that people can rate one higher than the other seeing it has only been out 3 weeks.

I have done WSFSB 1,2 and am on my 3rd week of WSFSB 3. They are essentially the same and which ever program you get into, you will have great results.

I am doing 3 because it has the strength and speed section which is what I'm training for. The bottom line is they are all good. Just pick the one that suits you the best.


hi guys as of tomorrow i plan on doing ws4sb part III, i was lookin threw it and on ME upper body days out of all the excersizes listed i would be able to only perform flat bench press, incline press, and close grip bench press .. now is only being able to perform 3 excercces would that effect my strenght gains? btw would it help if i switch the grips somtimes, like use narrow grip on incline press for 2 weeks and sometimes close grip for 2 weeks on the incline, same goes for flat bench .. use narrow grip?


You know you choose one exercise from that list. You don't max out on 8 different lifts in one workout. That would be crazy. Cycle through Close Grip Bench Press, Incline Grip Bench Press, Bench Press, Incline Close Grip Bench Press, and whatever other ME lifts you can every 4 weeks.

Don't stress on the little differences between WS4SB 2 and 3. They're supposed to be the same except for the Dynamic Effort Lower Body Day. Just because Weighted Dips are an ME Upper Body exercise on 2 and not 3 doesn't mean they can't be part of your program. Just think of all the articles as 1 whole article that describes 3 different programs

1) The 3 Day Program from WS4SB 1 and 2
2) The 4 Day Program from WS4SB III with Dynamic Stuff
3) The Washed Up Meathead Template at the end.

You might want to check out a normal Westside template not to actually do it but to see where Defranco is getting his ideas from.


hey guys i got a quick question .. on the ws4sb III it says after i do my ME excersize (which today was close grip incline bench) that i do 2 sets of max reps on either flat or incline dumbbell bnch .. now in ws4sb II it says after the me exrsize to perform 3-4 sets 8-10 reps on either flt or incline dumbbell bench .. can i do both like for 2 weeks after the me excersize do 2 sets max reps then the next 2 weeks for 3-4 sets o 8-10 reps? just thinking ..


The program is hardly set in stone. What works for some might not work as well for others. It's not going to hurt changing it up every couple of weeks.

Personally, I change the ME Exercise every 4th week. I do keep the other exercises generally the same though. It's the ME exercise that can lead to CNS fatigue and injury not the supplementary exercises.



I change ME exercises every two weeks. I change assistance exercises every 2-4 weeks. I also vary reps and sets.


so doing 2 weeks of 3-4 sets of 6-10 reps after the ME excersize then the next 2 weeks doing 2 sets of failure is fine?


It all comes under the category of trial and error. Find out what works for you.


my question is that would it be okay if my supplemental exercise after ME upper day, would it 3-4 sets 6-10 reps .. like i would do this for about 4 weeks then switching that to 2 sets max reps just like in WS4SB Part 3 program? for example, 4 weeks of 3-4 sets 6-10 reps (just like in ws4sb parts 1 and 2) then the next 4 weeks of 2 sets max reps (like in ws4sb part 3)


Yes. We've answered that question in another post already.


Hey guys, I have two quick questions regarding WS4SB Part III:

1) If you don`t have any type of competition and your only goal is reaching (or getting as close as possible) to your natural size & strength potentials; can you continue doing this template like forever?

Of course making sure to rotate the maximal lifts every 2-3 weeks, taking time to do proper stretching and mobility work and switching to a body weight training for 1-2 weeks for every 2-3 months and such... ???

2) I didn`t see any goodmorning option for the posterior chain-hip extension exercise selections, is there any particular reason for it? Or can I add that exercise to my program ass well?

Any thoughts and suggestions are appreciated, thank you.

  1. Yea, why not? The WSB guys have done it for entire careers and they are putting up huge numbers. As long as you keep up the variety, the options really are endless. (tons of diff. ME and DE exercises, bands, chains, etc. it can go on and on)

2.I think Joe D. left that out because there are better options for athletes. But the WSB guys are big advocates of good mornings, but I think they use it for ME work.


Right on AlexM thank you for taking the time. I feel the same way about continuing the program with plenty of good variation and creativity. About my second question, I was working out with a Russion power lifter at some point and he kind a mentioned that how good mornings helped him to increase his numbers on dead-lift. So are you saying that it makes more sense to do them on maximal lower body day?


I just remember reading that they use the good morning quite often for ma effort work. But there is no reason it can't be used a supplemental exercise. Play around with it, try it a few different ways and see which way gives you the best results. Everyone responds differently to different exercises, set rep schemes etc., find which way works best for you.


This is a reply from Joe Defranco on the subject on elitefts!!

11/27/2007 8:52:08 PM - Matt Joe Defranco,

Can the Good Morning be used as an accessory exersise in the WSFSB template for the Hip Extension or Hamstring/Posterior chain movement? I was previously doing a 5x5 and noticed that the weekly good morning really stabilized my back.

Absolutely, the good morning can be used as your hamstring/posterior chain movement!

We don't use the good morning too often as a max-effort movement because of the risk/reward benefit to our athletes. But, we use the good morning as an assistance lift with submaximal weights or band good mornings.


Thanks a bunch AlexM and Rampage74. I do not think that I am ready yet to do GMs as a ME exercise. I have been doing back extensions and Glute Ham raises for about a month and just started doing pull througs. I will add GMs as well as a submaximal exercise and see where my numbers are going.