RJ, if this keeps progressing we might just have to PM Jumanji out of hiding… break out the heavy ammunition, if you will =).
ChuckT, I forgot to address this. If banded box squats don’t build force absorbtion and they don’t build power at toe off, and they aren’t that great for building strength, then what are they good for?
It’s becuase they don’t do any of these things that I created this thread, just to give athletes (not PLs) a heads up.
DE squats, as are WS prescribed, build speed quite well for powerlifting applications, but athletes are not powerlifters and there should be a distinction between the training means of the two groups.
[quote]T Affliction G wrote:
RJ, if this keeps progressing we might just have to PM Jumanji out of hiding… break out the heavy ammunition, if you will =).[/quote]
Bringin’ out the big guns!
Really though, I’d love to see Jumanji jump in here, but until he does I’ll try to hold my own.
You went Bondarchuck!!!
Outstanding
You don’t need any help.
It is always great tp hear from Jumanji though!
A traditional westside system is amazing for developing strength of athletes. But their design is about upping totals in powerlifting. Equipment enhanced totals to be accurate and it works for that purpose to an amazing degree.
I still think I could smoke Chuck V in a forty yard dash but I could by no means hang in the squat with him.
RJ in regards to my post earlier, I said that I just do the heavy squats (full) and for explosive work box jumps, broad jumps, one leg jumps etc etc. Now, would it be good for me to also do the method of heavy half squats, and do specific p-chain movements (RDLS, deadlifts etc.)?
Also within regards to the Kelly Bagget thing about how he told me that if I keep getting stronger and hit the bag I don’t need any extra plyo work. Does this mean that doing DE for bench is uneccessary and I would be better off served gaining strength (lets say for the bench) hitting the bag, and throwing med balls? Thanks RJ!
[quote]RJ24 wrote:
As far as I can see, a great method for working power at toe off with BB squats would be to do some sort of reactive jump squat where the bands would release just prior to the ammortization phase. Unfortunately I have no clue how to rig such a thing up. :)[/quote]
Hook two bands up to a belt, put the belt on, have one person on each side of you step on the belt, squat down and as you jump up your partners let go of the band. Click the link, there’s a picture of a person doing this with depth jumps, also a video link is included in the link below.
[quote]RJ24 wrote:
“Any action performed with the scope of developing power has to continuously increase acceleration throughout the range of motion, with maximal speed achieved at the instant of release…Without constant acceleration, the discharge rate of the fast-twitch muscle fibers is low and the development of power is quite impossible.”
[/quote]
This quote has nothing to do with the aspect of bands, according to this quote squats have ZERO chance of developing power, because the last part of a squat or just about ANY OTHER LIFT for that matter involves a deceleration of the bar.
Now while DeFranco may have gone away from DE box squats (even though it is part of the program he outlined for his NFL linebacker in lift strong) I know damn sure he hasn’t taken out squats or deadlifts which do not involve a constant acceleration throughout full ROM.
How does a high box squat, or a squat with higher than parallel ROM, neglect the posterior chain??? If it’s not working the posterior chain then what the hell is it working? This is like saying a less than full range good morning suddenly doesn’t work your lower back at all but a good morning that is 6 inches lower does. Furthermore, why do my hamstrings, ass and lower back all get sore after a day of high box squats???
dl-, half squats are traditionally reserved for peaking periods or periods of special strength training, they’re not meant to replace full squats. Even if you were to do them all the time with supplemental p-chain work your chances of getting a back or knee injury would be much higher than if you had gone with full squats. Because of this, only use half squats if you need to peak your vertical leap for something.
As for your bench question, I would agree with Kelly. Hitting the heavy bag should take care of all power requirements and medicine ball throws would help even more. With both of those in your routine I see no reason to use DE bench press. Do RE work instead and save your energy.
desideratus, I know how to set the exercise up with partners, but I work alone, thus complicating the matter. Thanks though.
And actually, that quote you said has nothing to do with bands was in a section of Bompa’s book “Periodization Training for Sports” dealing exclusively with banded work as it applied to power training. So obviously the quote does apply to banded DE squats. As far as all lifts requiring a deceleration of the bar, that is true, that is why no non-ballistic lifts are used to build power, hence why box squats are not good power builders.
As for the high squat question, there are EMG studies done in which the glutes don’t become fully active in a squat until the bottom portion of the movement and the hamstrings are never very involved in a traditional (non PL) style squat.
However, if you were to use PL form (pushing the hips back, partial GM sort of thing) when doing high box squats the hams and glutes would be hit harder but they would not be worked through a full ROM, therefore strength gains in lower ROMs would be limited.
Thanks for clearning that up for me RJ, would you reccomend anything else to further increase my upper body power. Also do you think it’d be benefical in doing the med ball throws after my heavy bench sesion or on the seperate RE day?
[quote]dl- wrote:
Thanks for clearning that up for me RJ, would you reccomend anything else to further increase my upper body power. Also do you think it’d be benefical in doing the med ball throws after my heavy bench sesion or on the seperate RE day? [/quote]
I can’t think of anything else you would need to do, that you aren’t already, to increase your upper body power.
Since you are going to do medballs or hit the heavy bag I would do those activities before lifting. A good rule of thumb is to do the lightest (fastest) activities first and the heaviest activities last, this way fatigue doesn’t carry over into your speed work. So in your case, I would include heavy bag drills in your bench warmup on one day and medball throws in your warmup on another. Either that or you could reduce the volume and do a little of each drill in each warmup.
If you’re lucky the speed drills might act as a potentiator and drive your strength on the bench up even further. I use altitude landings prior to squats for just that purpose.