T Nation

Would TRT Help My Overall Well-Being?


#1

Ive been reading this site for a month or so and thought I'd get involved and see what more experienced people think. Im 49, 6'2 and 200lbs. I hit the gym 6 days a week, lift 4 and do cardio the other days. My Dr. did blood tests for a recent stomach problem I was having and afterwords I asked about TRT and she didn't think it was necessary. Ive had depression for years and take Wellbutrin, I also take pain meds for chronic pain. Im hoping some TRT will help with my overall well being?

T-bio..289. 130-681
T-free..101. 50-210
SHBG..25...13-71
Alb..4.6...3.3-4.8
Test..477..280-1100
Test Free..2.1//1.6-2.9
Thyroid Stim. hormone..1.95

I have a lipid profile and thats all great according to my Dr.
I also have a metabolic panel.

I went to a TRT DR. and he put me on a compound cream of 30 TST/CHRY..150/50MG/ML VP.
He also said my thyroid might be a bit weak and has me taking Armour 1GR 60MG cut in half each day. Ive been doing this for 2 weeks now and seem to feel a bit better, Im open to suggestions or different opionions. Thanks


#2

I won't comment on your BW results from a medical perspective as others more educated here will, but when I had my BW done my FT was a 1.88% where 2% to 4% was normal range; plus had other things that all were on the extreme borderline of "normal range". I am a healthy in shape 50 year old male that had low libido and other low T symptoms.

At any rate, I am on a protocol of IM 120 mg weekly of T Cyp (split into two doses Monday AM and Thursday PM), 250 iu of hCG EOD and take .5 mg of an AI same time as the T Cyp.

Been on this now for 9 weeks and all I can tell you is that I don't think I've EVER felt as good as I do...and I'm not kidding. My body just feels really good; it's hard to really explain. My sense of well being is tremendous and I keep thinking all the time life is really good and the TRT replacement I am on is changing my life so much for the good even my kids see the results.

I consider it a blessing.

My body is changing of course; lifting way more then usual and really filling out...and my wife says I am acting like an 18 year old because all I want to do is kiss her long and deep ALL THE TIME.

The one thing I can pass along, and everyone is different, is that my MD said it will take 2 to 3 months before I will really "start" to feel and see a difference...and he was right on. TRT for men is his speciality so he knows...

Any way man, my non-scientific $0.02 response.

Good luck!


#3

TRT is all about quality of life.... when done right.

Many of the symptoms of hypogonadism are common to hypothyroidism.

In some cases TRT is not the magic bullet if something else is wrong.

Too bad that you do not have fT3, fT4 prior to starting Armour.

How much of that 5% T cream are you applying, and where are you applying.

You really need serum E2 lab work, especially with transdermal T.

Training six days per week can lead to major hormone problems. Please describe your training routine.

Some meds can lead to elevated E2 which then lowers T. Wellbutrin is ok, not sure about the pain med.

Let us know your general location. Some may have some ideas about a decent doc there and some areas have limited options.

We can eval all of your lab work and will catch things that your doc ignores, post what you have.

Please PM me with a description of the cause of the pain and the meds, if not comfortable doing that here.

Note that it is sort of typical for guys who have low thyroid levels to be non responders to transdermal T. If your levels do not respond, you will need to inject.

Keep reading the posts of others too.

Reading the stickies? Please do not post there.

Keep coming back to this post, it is your case. We will need to be able to refer earlier posts later on for context. This is how we can best help you.


#4

Thanks KSman for your time.
I use 1 ML of the cream each day, I put it on the insides of my thighs, on the bottom of my upper arms and a small amount on my wrists(these are the areas the pharmacist told me to use).

Training is;
Monday. 20 minute cardio warm up. Back and shoulders.
Tues. 20 minute warm up. Biceps and triceps.
Weds. 40 Minutes cardio and abs and core work.
Thurs. same as monday.
Friday, Cardio for 40 minutes.
Sat. 20 minute warm up and then Biceps and tri

Lipid Profile.
Triglycerides..49..58-149
LDL..83..100
VLDL.. 10..12-29
Non HDL Cholesterol..92 <130
Chol/HDL 2.8<4.5
Cholesterol,total..145..158-199
HDL Cholesterol..52..40-63
What is CBC Without Diff?
Name 10/12/2010 05/12/2009 01/23/2008 09/13/2006 07/13/2005 04/01/2004 03/14/2003 Normal Range Units
PLTS 222 252 274 262 277 281 287 150-400
MCH 32.4 31.9 31.7 31.3 31.0 31.6 31.0 26.0-34.0
Hct 44.2 42.9 43.9 44.4 45.9 46.0 45.0 41.0-53.0
HGB 15.1 14.9 15.2 15.3 15.4 15.9 15.3 13.5-17.5
WBC 5.6 8.1 7.0 5.3 5.1 9.1 6.8 3.6-10.6
MPV 8.1 7.3 8.0 7.7 8.3 8.2 7.7 6.6-10.1
Nucleated RBCs, Automated 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
MCV 94.9 91.8 91.9 91.2 92.2 91.3 91.1 80.0-100.0
MCHC 34.1 34.8 34.5 34.4 33.6 34.6 34.0 32.0-36.0
RBC 4.65 4.68 4.78 4.87 4.98 5.03 4.93 4.50-5.90
RDW 12.7 13.2 12.8 12.8 13.1 12.3 12.5 11.3-15.6
Metabolic Panel
What is Comprehensive Metabolic Panel?
Name 10/12/2010 05/12/2010 02/24/2010 05/12/2009 01/23/2008 09/13/2006 07/13/2005 04/01/2004 03/14/2003 08/16/2002 10/30/2001 12/11/2000 09/02/1999 05/25/1999 Normal Range Units
Anion Gap 14.6 8-22
BUN 18 28 25 19 10 22 14 11 11 6 3 10 11 10 6-21
Na 136 132 132 130 137 134 136 140 135 134 126 139 142 139 137-146
GFR Est. by MDRD eq. 59 55 57 58 54 54 59 >60
Creatinine 1.30 1.39 1.34 1.33 1.5 1.5 1.4 1.3 1.2 1.1 0.9 1.3 1.3 1.3 0.71-1.18
Prot 6.9 7.7 6.9 6.7 6.6 7.4 7.4 8.1 8.0 7.6 7.8 8.7 8.1 7.2 6.0-8.4
Alb 4.6 4.8 4.2 4.7 4.5 4.5 4.4 4.6 4.5 4.8 4.7 4.9 4.2 3.8 3.3-4.8
Average GFR for age 99 99 99 99 99 99 99
Alk Phos 38 52 43 49 45 50 46 61 63 52 66 71 66 63 40-120
K 4.7 5.2 4.3 4.9 4.7 4.3 4.6 4.2 4.4 4.1 4.3 4.4 4.5 4.6 3.5-5.0
Cl 98 97 95 96 102 99 101 101 99 97 90 98 101 103 98-109
Bili, Total 0.1 0.5 0.4 <0.1 0.5 0.2 0.4 0.4 0.4 0.9 0.7 0.7 0.7 0.8 0.2-1.3
AST 25 35 27 33 21 30 22 18 21 137 111 124 80 94 16-50
ALT 37 36 30 41 25 47 34 30 40 175 121 123 12-61
Anion Gap (Na Cl CO2) 10 10 11 8 11 10 3-16
CO2 28 25 26 26 24 25 25 25 25 26 23 23 26 24 19-30
Glucose 57 88 82 84 78 68 75 79 74 124 70 71 73 84 65-99
Ca 9.7 9.9 9.6 9.6 9.5 8.4-10.4
Ca 9.1 9.2 9.5 9.1 9.8 9.3 9.5 9.7 9.6 8.4-10.2
Options Read Doctor's Annotation Read Doctor's Annotation Read Doctor's Annotation Read Doctor's Annotation Read Doctor's Annotation Read Doctor's Annotation
OPTIONS LEGEND
This is from last May.
What is CBC With Diff?
Name 05/12/2010 08/16/2002 Normal Range Units
Lymph, Abs 1.3 1.2-3.4
PLTS 239 206 150-400
RBC Morph NORMOCYTIC & NORMOCHROMIC NCNC
Baso, Auto 0.3 0.0-5.0
Baso, Abs 0.0 0.0-0.3
Lymph % 24 24-44
Lymph % 29.4 24.0-44.0
Lymphs, Abs 2.0 1.2-3.4
Plt Est Agrees with count PLTOK
MPV 7.0 7.4 6.6-10.1
MCH 32.0 36.2 26.0-34.0
HGB 16.1 14.2 13.5-17.5
Mono, Abs 0.5 0.6 0.2-0.9
Eos, Auto 0.7 0.0-5.0
Eos, Manual 1 0-7
Mono, Auto 7.9 0.0-12.0
Diff Type Automated Manual Diff
Mono, Manual 10 2-12
Eos, Abs 0.0 0.1 0.0-0.5
Neut, Abs 4.2 3.6 1.8-6.8
Hct 46.6 41.2 41.0-53.0
WBC 6.8 5.5 3.6-10.6
Neut, Manual 65 36-66
Nucleated RBCs, Automated 0.0
MCV 92.8 104.9 80.0-100.0
MCHC 34.5 34.5 32.0-36.0
Neut, Auto 61.7 36.0-66.0
RBC 5.03 3.93 4.50-5.90
RDW 12.3 13.5 11.3-15.6
Options Read Doctor's Annotation
OPTIONS LEGEND


#5

We do need lab ranges, you can use the edit function in the lower RH of the post to make changes.

Transdermal T absorbs better on the inner upper and lower arms. The key factor is thinner skin. Best absorption is the scrotum where skin is thinnest, but you need to clip hairs and you can only apply a limited amount there.

Many would consider 5% T cream to be too weak. Should be stronger. Higher %T applied to smaller skin areas will create less T-->E2 in the skin. But creams are very much better than T-gels applied to large areas.

Cholesterol is getting low. And glucose was low. Did you do training on a 12 hour fast before the labs?


#6

Ive added more BW, didn't know I had all that or Id have put it up first thing. I had worked out the night before and not had much to eat when these last tests were done. I edited the BW into my second post. Thanks again!


#7

Ive edited in BW I didn't know I had.
I had worked out the night before this latest BW and hadn't had much to eat when blood was drawn. Thanks again!


#8

Find a different dr who knows what they are doing.
A dr that just throws things in for fact of it "you thyroid might be low" with out no clincal explaination is a very dangerous person. This guy is an antiaging dr and using chyrsin is so out dated. Has he even address the concern of low cholesterol and low lipid panel. These are usually due to fat malabsorption or low fat diets which can all contribute to your depression and low hormones level. Given you age HRT should be commenced, but your other issues need to be addressed such as you GI tract.


#9

These tests were done by my normal DR. and I took copies to the TRT DR. For what its worth he hasn't seen the CBC test's as I didn't know I had them until today. So if you hadn't seen them would you have the same opinion? I guess I need to get those to him, I'm going back next week and will send them to him before I go. What do you suggest I ask him for? He seems pretty open minded? Thanks


#10

There are no parameters for thyroid to make that conclusion to add thyroid. You can not treat by the TSH alone. You need to get parameters for thyroid Ft4, ft3, rt3, TPO, TGAB, total T4,vitamins D 25. Please reference Ksman post about what test should be properly ran. Blood work needs to be fasted to get accurate results.


#11

What should I tell my DR. to use instead of chyrsin?


#12

So I went back to the Dr. and told him the cream wasn't working and that I wanted to inject myself. So they showed me how to do it and had me inject while I was there. He want's to put me on Test prop 100mg injected twice a week,anastrozole and hgc once a week. Ive checked with 2 pharmacies and they dont carry Test prop, does anybody have any ideas?


#13

It's perfectly fine to get testosterone cypionate (t-cyp) or testosterone enanthate. If you're dosing twice a week, as you certainly should, then the ester generally won't matter (for most people - some people react poorly to certain esters or certain additives in certain solutions).


#14

It looks like I will need to ask him to change the script..


#15

please tell me that it is 100mg total a week. 50mg E3D and not 100mg E3D.


#16

hCG or anastrozole once a week is bogus. Have you read the stickies?


#17

Its for 100mg twice a week.


#18

The hcg is for once a week and the anastrole is twice a week. He was getting a little frustrated with me questioning everything he was saying so I let him give me what he wanted and figure I can always tell him its not working and have him change it.


#19

100mg twice a week is overkill. Unless you're responding poorly to 50mg twice a week, and you've ruled out other issues (e.g. high E2, poor thyroid function), you shouldn't be at that high of a dose.


#20

going from 150mg T-cream (with low to no absorption) to 200mg T-Cyp weekly (with almost guaranteed higher availability) is insane (in my non-medical opinion).

most do great on 100mg a week - and that is considered the best place to start.