T Nation

Would This Routine Even Work?


#1

Hey everyone

This is a training routine I thought up in my spare time, and I am curious to see whether any of you think this would even work. Basically you workout Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday, and do GPP at the weekends. The thing is that the workout you do on the weekdays is exactly the same each day.

Here it is:
Barbell Bench Press-1x4, 2x8
Bent Over Row-1x4, 2x8
Squat-1x4, 2x8
Military Press-1x4, 2x8
(Weighted) Chin-Ups-1x4, 2x8
Deadlift-1x4, 2x8

The thinking being that in a week over the 5 workouts you'll do 100 reps per exercise (like GVT), 20 of those being heavy, but splitting the volume into 5 total body workouts. Any thoughts/comments?

Note: I have not done this myself yet but may in a few weeks, partially depending on any feedback I get here


#2

im going to say that the exercise selection is fine for such a program

however, there is not nearly enough volume, even though the frequency is high

unless you are planning on keeping the intensity high (i.e. lifting very heavy for those 4-8 reps). in this case, it would make sense

My guess is, if lifting heavy, youd see some strength increases, but lifting with weights too light will result in no gains. i feel like this will create the illusion of doing work that will achieve goals, but what will be achieved is not tantamount to building one's body

i mean, is 1x4 really even a set unless the weight is very high? and if so, is 3 sets really enough to effectively fatigue a muscle group so as to produce hypertrophy? i.e. chest via benchpress.

Anyway, I dont think it will work well, and there are probably programs with frequency like this that you could research and compare, but if you try it letus know how it does ya


#3

What is the motivation for this? If you have that much gym time everyday you can get a lot out of a decent split.

If the goal is to get out of doing lifts other than the major compound lifts, you're probably going to sell yourself short by avoiding the supplements.


#4

i think that not doing the supplement lifts will present less problems than not doing the compounds, because all of these compounds will hit a decent variety of groups

i think that he'd be selling himself short more by the shear repetition of these specific lifts.

i think the motivation is just an impulsive idea that he wanted an opinion on to see if its legit.

IMO, a waste of time, as you said, with that much time do a real split/workout


#5

MJlifta:
Fair point, and yeah it was just a kinda impulsive idea an wanted to knw whether it'd work. I'm not too sure that not doing supplements would be such a problem, though I could see calves being short-changed a bit.

Poetikaal:
How much would you suggest to up the volume by then about, and yeah switching the exercises to similar but different ones each bar (e.g. bench press to decline press) would probably help a lot.

Thanks


#6

Since you posted this in the Bodybuilding forum, I'm going to say 'no'. I don't think that routine would at all for Bodybuilding purposes.


#7

well, you didnt address the concern I raised with weights being used, but anyways...

you have 6 exercises. each exercise has 1x4, 2x8. if you look at the work you would be doing, your total sets are 18, which is not a bad place for you to be if you are working out 5 days in a row. you dont want to overexhaust yourself. however, your total reps are 120.

120 reps divided between 18 sets is an average of 6-7 reps per set.

that will not be enough to induce hypertrophy unless you are training at a much heavier weight, at which point you are activating different muscle fibers and not necessarily achieving hypertrophy to the extent that you desire.

now, the problem with this setup is that working the same lifts 5 days in a row is going to be tricky. you ahve to fatigue yourself enough to produce growth, but not enough that you cant do it five more days in a row

just because it gets difficult, however, doesnt mean youre getting the hypertrophy you desire.

MY SUGGESTION:

i would say try this for a week but with a mod. do only five exercises. up the sets to 4 and the reps to 8-10. look at it like this.

Squats 4x8

Pullups 4x8(or 2 short of failure)

Bench 4 x 8

Row 4 x 8

Military press 4x8

Now, alternate deads and squats. do deads on tuesday and thurs, squats monday wednesday friday.

That keeps your total reps clsoer to 200, no less than 160 (if you get at least 8 reps)

that is at least 40 more total reps, and the muscle groups are being worked more fully.

i would say a program like you are attempting may be something to cycle in 2 non-consecutive weeks in any month, if it were to be effective. i feel like it would be good to take a week off of this training and do something more traditional in between.

its just that the frequency you are attempting may be better used for a traditional split. that way you can work muscle groups twice in a week but more fully

mondays: back, chest

Tuesday:off

Wednesday: legs

Thursday: shoulders, arms

Friday: legs

Saturday: Chest, bis

Sunday: back, tris

Monday: off

I guarantee you using your 7 days for something like this would be more productive.

i feel like im rambling at this point


#8

and yeah i agree with angryvader.

thats what i mean when i say that your reps are not going to get you the hypertrophy you seek


#9

Something like that can work, but I wouldn't do it that way.

Read this:

www.davedraper.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/1486/

If you keep a log book and try to more weight and/or more reps each time you do those exercises you will grow muscle if a caloric surplus is present.

If you work up to a big bench, big squat, big dead, etc. you will be a big person.

Anyone else telling you that "supplement" exercises are necessary for bodybuilding are full of it unless you are advanced...although I don't consider isolation movements like barbell curls to be supplements...that movement is a staple.

You could do a 2-way thing like this:

A:

Weighted Chins
Stiff Legged Deads
Weighted Dips
Military Press

B:

Squat
Bench
Row
Barbell Curl

Do 6-10 reps for 1 work set (with 2-4 warm ups before hand)of each exercise, but always do better for your last workset in terms of weight/reps than the last time you did that exercise. When you get to 9-10 reps, up the weight then work it back up.

Alternate A and B workouts. Rest 48-72 hours between workouts if you fee like you need it.

After 10-12 weeks or so (if progress stalls), sub out incline for bench, pull ups for chins, front squat for squat, seated press for standing press, close grip bench for dips, rack pulls for SL Deads, etc. and do the cycle over again.

Do calves/abs as needed.

Fatigue for fatigue's sake is overrated.

Once you are strong as shit in these movements you can split things up or add in "accessory" movements if you want or need to.


#10

At first glance, it reminds me of Dan John's 40-Day Workout gone horribly wrong.
http://www.elitefts.com/documents/40-day_workout.htm

For bodybuilding/hypertrophy purposes, this type of program would suck. But for strength-building purposes, this type of program (as Dan John laid it out, not your funky version) would work along the same lines as any grease-the-groove-style program.

But as you have it laid out, I'm pretty sure you'd pound yourself into the ground right-quick.

You still could, if you're really itching to. Worst case scenario: you learn how not to design a hypertrophy program (and maybe get overtrained, legitimately, not the way 96% of people use the word).

Just make sure you progress the load consistently (not every single workout, but whenever you can), and something will happen.


#11

You mentioned that this routine is partly inspired by GVT. It is worth mentioning that GVT induces hypertrophy through the repeated effort of lifting a weight for ten sets of ten.

I don't think that you will be able to get the same results by splitting the volume across five sessions. Granted, you are doing the same number of reps per exercise over the course of a week, but you won't be accumulating fatigue to the same degree as you would in a split routine, because the reps aren't all done in one session.

I can't see how the principles behind GVT can be carried over to multiple, total body workouts.


#12

Chris:
I don't think I really am itching to do it now after everyone's comments :slight_smile: Think I'll stick to something more conventional for now.

roybot:
Surely though there is a benefit to splitting volume as well as you'd be able to produce much higher average force per set, since your not as fatigued as you'd be towards the end of a 10x10 workout.


#13

I must have underestimated you all this time.


#14

haha, thanks. any thoughts on the A/B program i spelled out? that's what I'm doing right now and like it very much but I'd be interested in your thoughts.


#15

That's true. But GVT doesn't use maximal weights to stimulate growth. It uses a combination of repeated efforts and accumulated fatigue.

In fact, you should be actively seeking fatigue during the last few sets of a GVT workout, because that's when the muscle fibers really get hit.

That's why it's vital to do all the sets in one session and with the prescribed rest periods.

Look at it this way: for every 20 reps you do on a given bodypart on your routine, you will have a day of rest before the next 20. No accumulated fatique in between.

The only way you can compensate for this is to increase the weights. That's perfectly acceptable. However, the moment you do that, your routine becomes something else entirely.


#16

I'll shoot you a pm.


#17

Hmmmm I thought GVT also worked cos of the high set/rep volume of 100 though, and I just thought that by splitting the volume over several days you could get the benefits of higher force production. Hey I'm only new :slight_smile:


#18

Well the early sets aren't as important as the later ones, because you are using a relatively light load throughout.

You should think of the early sets as 'primers' for the last few sets, where the real stimulation is to be had. The volume is what is going to make those final sets difficult, not the poundage used.

You have to be a in a state of muscular fatigue in order to reap the benefits of GVT. You're obviously not going to be fatigued in the intial sets, because the weight is too light. That's where the volume comes in.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to split the total volume over multiple sessions, but then you should be more concerned with the frequency rather than the total volume.

Then you're looking at a completely different style of training.


#19

Ok then looks like I'm gunna have to look up GVT again seems I'm a bit hazy on the priciples. Anyhoo I don't think I'll do this anyway now I'll just stick to WS4SB


#20

If you can go 5 times a week why don't you just do a bodypart split...i think its worked well for some people!!