T Nation

Would Estrogen Make You Quit?


Situation: 90-95% female environment.

Recurring irritation: Women in your surroundings almost always take their chance to throw a cheap shot to males when they can (example: these computers are like men, can`t do more than one thing at a time, etc.)

Problem: I cant respect thatvictim` stance. I could try to turn it into a joke, but I hate victims and I think it shows on my face. Of course, women will accuse me of being insensitive. Being a minority, I have to suck it up.

Question: Over years of such irritations, and given that the % of men generally does not change ... if you can`t beat them ... leave them?

Would you do it? Or does one come to accept this as an inevitable thing, regardless of the field of work, and eventually get over it and laugh about it?


More info needed.


Options (in no particular order):
1. Find a different job.
2. Suck it up and deal.
3. Tell them it's rude.
4. Tell management that your colleagues are creating a hostile work environment. Threaten to sue. (Sadly, the only law firm with a chance of winning your case is probably Cage & Fish in Boston.)


Option 5) Start fucking them, one by one, or several at once.

Just a thought.

\|/ 3Toes


Just start throwing around derogatory jokes about females. If they don't get the message then they're stupid, and option 5 would be the way to go.


Here goes. Since this environment is Estrogen influenced, female values go with it. The way I see it, relationships take precedence over performance and being right.

Translation: Youll score more points if you fake being interested about women talking about their cats, kids, and ever-changingfeelings` than trying to be a role-model of concentration, focus, and performance.

One has to follow the pack, to not be mean, that being different is frowned upon (read: passive-aggressive gazes and whispers).

Most funny and bizarre thing, the minute you start acting like them, the forget immediately all the hurt you can have given them by being different.

So, in short, I wonder if I need to convert into a gay politician, suck it up (and wait for the passive-aggressive collective to bum rush me in their own p.a. way), or start finding a more manly work environment (or hang around in a department where average self-esteem is higher? I have no-problems with the high-T managers, male or female, at the job) -- problem is, there is not enough of them imo.


I need to know how to handle the two-faced victim/backstabbers first. Especially the Queen Bees. Til then, Im sucking it up. But one of them has started sending these Im not getting my feelings mirrored with himarrows. Guess Ill have to lower my standards (of resilience) and start fighting fire with fire.


Establish your dominance and don't relent for any reason. Act as though evey bitch in the company is inferior to you. Make yourself the boss.


and from now on refer to them exclusively as bitches and hos




I prefer this one personally. Fight them with what they would use if the situation were reversed.

It might be a good idea to have something to fall back on job-wise just in case it doesn't work.


Funny thing, I'm going to college in an environment that is around 70% male. At least in my house (the houses are like co-ed frats, but not quite...), most of the women are high-T. We also happen to be the most athletic, competitive, and "normal" house.

The houses with more women in them seem to be much less high-T for lack of a better description.

The problem of course is that attractive women are a rare commodity here, so the effect of any percentage of women is amplified manyfold.

Of course, it is wise to weigh the benefits of your job, but if I were you and I actually desired to keep the job, I would either:

  1. Get myself a promotion (befriend the higher-T managers, get on their good sides)
  2. Fuck all of them...one by one.
  3. Be competitive.

The problem isn't so much the victim stance, but the fact that they realize they have the majority voice and outnumber you. It's the fact that they know they have you by the balls and you can't do too much about it. Doing any of the above kind of reverses the situation. Now you're in control, and they have to suck up to you.

Personally though, people will say what they want to say, including women. Let them do what they want. By complaining you are committing the same crime they are. They are complaining (basically) about being brought up in a patriarchal society and you are complaining about being in a female dominated environment.

These women and their comments should just be a drop in the bucket to you. Just outclass them and they will see.

On a related note, most of the women here are in what are considered to be the "easier" majors, and this fact is not lost upon anyone, even them. They realize this and therefore you get no academic fembitch-isms. They freely admit (individually at least) that they are not as smart. That is not to say there are not exceptional women who go on to major in physics (considered one of the hardest majors in the school, which the school itself is considered to be one of the hardest in the nation), but everybody freely admits their weaknesses.

Supposing that you are in fact superior in some way, simply making them realize this should do a lot to silence any criticism.


I would tend to agree. Most of them are sane. Most would go with what you described. I also know that a couple of them cannot match me in terms of performance, and use being the most popular criterion as a substitute.

(What the heck, maybe Im too pro-boss and learn from them. Its the gear the squeaks the most that geats greased first, eh?)

What I hate is that there a couple of Queen Bee influencers in my sourroundings, and they are essentially the opposite of my character. To their Estrogen, I am Testosterone. To the Union-worker mentality, I am the Savage Capitalist. To their sensitivity, I willingly choose to not give in their comments (co-dependence / encouraging the victim stance). You get the idea. A single few loud victims vs the big bad male.

My biggest beef is that I tolerate their difference. Do I get the same back? Sort of. But I suspect one of these influencers to backstab me. Shes the type thats always smiling in front of management, always agreeing with them, but the minute they are absent the venom starts pouring. For the bosses, she looks perfect. For people like me stuck around her, we get the whole enchilada of neg vibes the minute management is absent. I call it hypocrisy. Nothing extraordinary there. She can do it as much as she want. But the minute I suspected she used the same process against me, that`s where I started boiling.

In order to separate fact from fiction (sorta), but its really to see the cause-effect-process, Ill start logging a journal of all such behaviour. I never did it in the past, but since things dont change, Ill have this as backup the next time I think Ill blow up. Even then, being theniceguythat I am, Ill even give Ms. Queen Bee a chance to save face by sending her my feelings about the issue on a proactive basis.


FYI, I`m generally not a fan of writing out my problems, and I must admit that the writing, responses, and replies process has really been helpful in deflating this issue and putting this back into better perspective. Thank you for your attention and feedback.


Interesting. Until just recently I was working in the HR department of a company, which of course was filled with women.

I generally gave them a bit of cocky attitude.

Blah blah, men, blah blah.

I could say the same about most women I know.

You've met the wrong men.

You must have bad taste in men.

And you put up with that, why?

There game is generally to "lump" men into some derogatory category. So, just create a category of exceptional men and let them know you take comfort in being in that category instead.

Then you can agree that many men are stupid, fat, lazy or whatever you want, without feeling insulted. When you can agree with them, it seems to disarm them, and when you don't take offense everyone gets along better.

Just some ideas.


Brilliant, Vroom!

Talk about turning lemons into lemonade. I had issues with the agreeing with the enemy part. Your spin on it solves a big portion of it. Thanks!


I'm sorry, but does any one else have problems with this post? I had to walk away, think about it, and come back before posting to make sure I didn't overreact -- or perhaps I read your intent wrong.

But seriously... the guy is obviously in a workplace with a bunch of bitchy, catty women who are cliquing to enhance their feelings of superiority. Not only that, but these women feel that in bonding together AGAINST men, they're somehow creating better relationships with each other. Stupid, yes, but it happens all the time.

But to honestly sit there and offer this guy the solution that he needs to "be better than them" and "fuck all of them"??? Give me a break.

Of course! We ALL know that having sex with an already bitchy and cynical woman that you work with -- and all her coworkers -- makes her SOOO much easier to deal with at work.

Doesn't that create the OPPOSITE reaction? I would think that if he "fucked all of them"... they would probably feel fucked over and resent him more. Just a thought.

And that part about "smarter majors"? It's obvious that you're caught up in the ego of your academic life -- at whatever school you go to -- and you're so self absorbed that you look down on other "majors" as if the professional world is an easy categorization of stupid vs. smart majors. It boggles my mind that you would actually make the jump from "works with all women" to "stupid majors". What the hell does a major in college have to do with your mental aptitude in your professional life?

If you go your whole life "fucking" the women that have problems with you and assuming that people in "stupid majors" in college are stupid in general --- perhaps you shouldn't be giving advice on personal relations.

Rant over. ... wow. Not too sure where that came from.


btw - I like Vroom's solution best. I think that is the most effective and classy way to deal with women like that.


Vroom's definately got the right mindset.

Just get back at them man.

Load on the sexism.

"How come this floor is still dirty, aren't you all women?"

"Of course men are filthy. We gotta give you something to do."

"Your attempts at humor very much amuse me."

But overall, you can't take this thing personally. Women are constantly testing you. Everything is a test. Just have fun.

You should never care about what other people think of you, only what you think of you.

The moment you let yourself become "one of them", a girlfriend, a safe person who is there, you will have squat. No women, no confidence, no self-respect.

Stay true to yourself. Be a man, and don't take shit, especially from women.

Also, call those complainers on it that it's annoying, and brings a very negative mood that they're always complaining.

There's nothing wrong with being the big, bad male.


So what? If he fucks all of them, he still wins.

\|/ 3Toes