Age 21, training for 7 years, competitive athlete,
A small winstrol course 50mg a day for 4 weeks,
Would this cause complications?
Asking for a friend? Because, based on other posts, youāre 25 with a decade of training experience.
Yes, as you were told a few months ago: Minimum Age You Recommend to Start a Cycle for Safety?
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My brother just told me he started taking winstrol (no test base or anything whatsoever)
Whatās he trying to accomplish with a 4-week cycle? Whatās his PCT plan?
Competitive athlete in what sport and at what level?
If heās a pro making his living from it, the situation may be slightly different than if heās some dude on a college team, but physiologically speaking, 21 is too young to be using anabolics safely and heās starting a snowball.
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āStarting a snowballā?
Well I recommended that he takes clomid and Nolva
Heās does jiu-jitsu, so winstrol was the worst choice because itās just gonna dry him out and limit his mobility.
Heās not stopping, even after what I told him, so i donāt know if heāll be okay. I also kinda wanna see what happens. Maybe you can tell me something thatāll change his mind.
How about a floppy penis? That do it? Because running winstrol solo will do more than hurt your joints.
Body-wise, there are tons of threads from guys who started AAS too young and played catch-up for years afterwards trying to undo the internal disruption.
Mental-wise, very, very, very few people do one cycle and close the book on gear. So heās gotten a taste and odds are heāll return to another cycle (likely still too young when progress could very much have been made naturally).
Thereās also Dave Tateās idea of the Ace Card that you can only flip once. Long story short: If heās using gear as a 21-year old doing BJJ in local tournaments, heās not making the UFC or ADCC in the long run.
Heās not open to having his mind changed. You know that, because you know the kid. If he was, he wouldāve run the idea by you first. Wish him well, start looking up sports physical therapists that can handle injuries, and work on your told-ya-so voice.
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Thatās an interesting concept, thanks for that. Iām glad that I waited out all this time.
When this guy says āit can only take you up one levelā, what does he mean? Because take my brother for example, heās starting on a mild and short cycle, however, at a later stage when he decides to go into the heavy anabolics (Iām talking test and tren), wouldnāt that be a whole lot different? (Equivalent to kicking it up a few notches higher), thatās one thing Iām not too clear about.
4 weeks of Winstrol on itās own, is actually worse than nothing. It will shut him down and leave him all screwed up for weeks, maybe months. Test is definitely not a heavier anabolic than Win. What heās saying is, if you need drugs to move up to the next level, youāre not going higher than where the drugs get you. Cumulative use is not going to push you to continually higher levels, itās going to only get you one notch better than your natural ability.
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We talking about long term endocrine disruption (easily possible with one cycle, hell, for some even exposure environmental toxins, processed food etc can induce hypogonadism). However the chances of developing systemic organ/cardiac failure from one cycle are slim to none. Chances are however if heās using stanozolol for BJJ he will tear/strain a tendon. Anabolic steroids (wellā¦ certain ones) are implicated within tendon pathology. Interestingly, nandrolone specifically appears to be associated with tendon healing, increased tendon strength rather than deleterious remodelling.
I disagree with the ace card notion. Itās a tactic (well deserved) for discouraging use of AAS within inexperienced athletes. AR upregulation/downregulation occurs using AAS, of which both are reversible upon discontinuation. What isnāt reversible is an increase in sheer amount of androgen receptors within skeletal muscle and increase myonuclei density, capillary density etc. Theoretically the use of AAS induces changes within the morphology of skeletal muscle for LIFE, thus giving one a permanent athletic edge. The notion that one simply canāt progress anymore after using anabolic steroids is ludicrous (to me), the problem lies within building a dependence on the drugs to achieve results. Having trained naturally and (very mildly) enhanced, I can say that results come far easier on the drugs (esp if not close to genetic potential). As a natural, special, intricate attention must be payed towards diet, training routines (duration of workout, donāt want to induce cortisol dominance etc). Enhanced I can go in, intensively train for 2.5 hours without feeling tired, THEN go for a run/cycleā¦ eat whatever macros I wish (as long as I hit a caloric goal) and gain mass/strength. Thus one may be offset by the lack of results upon discontinuation of gear.
That being said, it isnāt a good idea to get on gear early (primarily due to risks involved and the potential for dependence on the drugs to succeed) however if you have adequate willpower, you can absolutely implement anabolics (in my opinion) without straining long term athletic capacity from a performance standpoint.
Great genetics are great genetics, regardless of AAS use, typically one will be able to spot a genetic giftā¦ AAS wonāt transform a non-athletic individual into an NFL superstar
Your second paragraph is golden man. I mean, I really hate it when people downplay the effects of steroids. I mean, if I am honest, they literally are magic. When I jumped on the gear, I didnāt get more dedicated, I didnāt change my diet, I didnāt get better quality sleep and I also didnāt get more scientific about my training methodology. But guess what? Everything exploded in the gym the moment I added drugs. That was it. Simply adding drugs.
It really grinds my gears when youtubers downplay the effects of drugs. Sure, I understand you donāt want an army of 15 year olds jumping on the gear, but honestly, most will probably do it anyways.
The point is: gear WORKS and it works a hell of a lot more than just being a āminorā addition to your training tool box.
The only people that downplay their gear use are the ones who are too afraid to admit that gear played a HUGE fucking role in their progress.
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How long ago did you start jumping on the gear?
lol, yeah those guys are funny. They usually finish that off with āI"d probably be right where I am without them, I just like how they make me feelā or āIt would have just taken a little longer to get hereā
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And previous professional bodybuilders too that state they never went over 500mg of test and 400mg deca, yet stepped on the olympia stage LOL (fucking lee priest and dorian yates).
SB
Didnāt Dorian Yates say he used like 1 g test, a ton of deca, anadrol, HGH etc
I dont know when he said that but in a video interview I saw recently, he was speaking to a Polish crowd (I believe) and a lady was translating, and he said at his peak of winning the olympia, his max was 500/750mg test and 4-600mg deca, lol. As if heās some belgian blue bull or genetic anomaly that needs only a gram of gear to be the best in the world, the rest is just āhard workā. GTFO.
SB
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Here in an interview he states taking 1000mg test, 500mg deca, 50mg/day dbol (I believe in another interview he said he took 50mg dbol+50mg anadrol + HGH (high dosages)
Did he use more? Probably, however all that in total (if thinking about long estered gear equiv. Given that every 10mg oral is the amt of hormone in MG to 100mg test E (70mg base hormone). So 2000-2500mg/wk + HGHā¦ His actual stack was probably 2x that but not as bad as Lee Priestās (400mg deca + 100mg primo) bullshit
I agree, minimum 2x if not more. I think someone on the olympia stage has to be on a minimum of around 5 grams of gear, plus high doses of HGH and insulin to stand a chance, no matter what their genetic make up is.
SB
No doubt they are not being honestā¦ but they also must having amazing genetics and extremely positive responses to gear that the average dude doesnāt have. I mean I personally train very hard, 5x a week, for 20 years now and no amount of gear will make me look half as good as those guys. Just not in the cards.
I disagree, if you ran 5-6 grams of AAS, 10-15iu HGH/d plus insulin (I dont know the doses they use) you would be good enough to be on a pro stage. Not saying Mr olympia, but definitely higher than the amateur ranks.
However, we probably wouldnt be able to tolerate that amount of gear, the Mr Olympiaās can, and thatās what sets us apart (aside from the amount of AR, muscle fibres etc, but this is a small contribution).
SB
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