I am hoping you all can help me gain information about my husband's choices. I am very supportive of his work-outs/body building, I am just worried that he doesn't know what he is taking or the possible effects -
He works out very intensely (6-7 days a week, goes 5+days between body parts) and has been since January (he has 7% body fat(maybe less now, that was a few months ago), has gained 20 pounds of muscle since january), he takes no-explode before his workouts and is also supplementing with SUS500 and HAVOC.
He has been on the SUS500 about 5 weeks and recently added the HAVOC. I don't know how much he is taking of each. He isn't taking anything else with it and didn't take anything before hand. I don't think he has any plans to take anything after, but I know he is planning on taking the SUS500 for 8 weeks.
I have read caffeine is not a good idea, is this true?
In addition, he survives on protein shakes from the gym and at home. He may eat one meal a day, usually a meat and a salad or sweet potato - he won't eat any carb really, maybe a healthy cereal on occasion...
I am worried about his overall health and potential side effects...
I wouldn't worry too much if he has that low body fat and is still packing on muscle. Many of us who follow all prudent guidelines aren't getting those kind of results. One has to be healthy to gain lean body mass.
Are there things he is supposed to be taking with it or after it? I have been trying to educate myself (he admitted he didn't do any research about all of it) but this is all so foreign to me. What side effects are prominent with these supplements?
Thanks for helping, I promise I am only a concerned wife, not a nagging negative one!-
NO-explode is fine, its just caffeine, creatine, and arginine, none of which are dangerous.
SUS500 is a progestin, and is similar to birthcontrol pills.
Avoid progestin based prohormones, they are the most dangerous and untested of all the prohormones.
Havoc on the other hand, is one of the safest, and well designed prohormones on the market currently.
Havoc is methylated and should not be taken for more than 6 weeks as it is liver toxic, and he should not drink alcohol of any kind while using this product, as it will place more stress on the liver.
At this moment hes ok, SUS500 is not methylated, and although its a progestin, hes old enough that it is not likely to do any permanent damage to his system.
He NEEDS to use an SERM for a PCT when he comes off the prohormones. THIS IS IMPORTANT.
If he does not use an SERM, he is going to crash his HPTA, his sex drive and testosterone levels will plummet, hes going to get tired, and feel weak.
He will lose a fair amount of muscle.
He also risks estrogen rebound, his E2 levels probably will spike, which could lead to gyno (man breasts), prostate swelling, hair loss, etc.
What he needs is Nolva, tamoxifen citrate, it is a commonly avaliable SERM, it will restart his own natural testosterone production and will prevent the estrogen spike from having any actual effects by blocking the receptor sites.
It is a breast cancer drug, and is not legally avaliable for human consumption. YOU can buy it however for "research purposes" for "animal testing".
We can provide you with sites set up specifically for these "research purposes"
He will still experience HAIRLOSS even with an SERM, it will not be permanent unless he is predisposed to male pattern baldness. Bald men on his mother's side of the family is the most common indicator, in which case the hairloss will be permanent.
If he isnt prone to MPB, then the minor shedding will quickly subside and his hair will return to normal.
The shedding is caused by hormone fluctuations, will happen upon cessation of the prohormones whether or not he uses an SERM for PCT.
In short, he needs to do more research on prohomrones, we have a prohromone general info guide in the top of the steroid section.
It outlines different types, and their uses.
Stay aware from anything progestin or progestrone based, they are terrible drugs.
Use something based on safer, and better understood, pharmaceutical steroids.
Hdrol, superdrol, pheraplex, havoc, etc are all good choices.
You are right to worry about his health, he did no reserach of any kind.
He needs to choose different drugs, he needs to aquire an SERM (we can provide sources for these, and proper usage protocols), and he needs to rework his diet and probably his training.
Feel free to private message me if you have more questions.
There is still plenty of time to salvage his mistakes. He hasn't done anything too damaging yet.
Steroids are only as safe as the person using them, so you have a right to be concerned.
The good thing is, it's pretty difficult to cause yourself serious damage in the short term. Sure there are effects such as gyno (breast tissue formation in males - reversible if you act quickly), increased liver and kidney stress (with oral steroids), balding, and perhaps acne to name a few, but the danger really comes when you enter the realm of chronic abuse (i.e. years).
The above side effects can be very much controlled by an intelligent and well educated steroid user, to the point at which they are a non-issue.
The problem is, you don't know exactly what he knows, and we don't know exactly what you know. Kind of like chinese whispers. This makes it a bit difficult for us to give specific advice.
How he is controlling estrogen levels on cycle
What his plans are for post-cycle-therapy
What exactly he is using and how often he is injecting
sus500 should be okay, a friend of mine takes this he also takes NO XPLODE which is okay at first but wears off within a few days or weeks depending on the person - no xplode is basically like 3 or 4 cups of coffee with creatine. dono anything about the others sorry. maybe someone else could help u. umm his diet is okay for the short term. long term more not so.. good for his health. most of the stuff you could google or youtube it for more information.
Thank you for your detailed responses. He does use a personal trainer but I am not sure the trainer knows he is taking this stuff. I will share this information with him and I will see what his plans on for the havoc since he just recently introduced it. What is HPTA? If he chooses to not take a PCT - is it really that horrible?
He does have a horrible diet and his trainer is on him all the time. He is starting to eat a second "meal" but it doesn't really constitute a meal, more like a snack. I think he drinks like 4 protein shakes a day (150 grams of protein in shakes)
How common are the side effects of anger, irritability, mood swings etc that I have read about?
Thanks again, I appreciate your time to respond to my questions/
I just tried to reply and it didn't post so I will try again!
Thank you for your detailed responses, I really appreciate it. I have been trying to look things up on the web and finally decided just to ask someone. The article someone had posted about prohormones made me pick your site as the one to try!
He does work with a trainer but I don't know if the trainer knows he is taking this stuff. I will share this information with him and ask him about his plans for the havoc since he should go off the sus500 in a few more weeks. Should he go off all them since it will be eight weeks or is it okay for him to keep using the havoc. I am going to encourage him to get on this site and ask himself but if i have to play third party to keep him healthy I will!
His diet is horrible, I agree. His trainer is on him all the time about it - he survives on 4 protein shakes a day and one decent meal. Anything else he does I would consider a snack, and usually protein.
What is HPTA? I don't know that one - and is it horrible if he doesn't do PCT? Last question - how common are the side effects of irritability, anger, etc that I have read about?
Thanks again, I appreciate your willingness to take the time to respond to me -
he needs to do PCT. As I have found out from past experience...he will turn into a big steaming pile of poo with raging mood swings. PCT , Nolvadex or clomid...prefferably NOlva. Look at the PCT/SERM sticky in the forum.
HPTA = Hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis = ball shrinkage and production of natural test. in a males body is shut down during a high dose or even moderately dosed cycle. Once you come off you're left with no test. in your body; which is why the hormonal change causes all the nasty side effects.
From my understanding. Guys above me are more knowedgable, if you really wanna help him , have him become a member on this website and read up.
He seems too obsessed with the whole thing (as many are on this forum too). Put down your foot and see where he stands. Does he love training more than he loves you? Just tell him to stay away from the steroids, or else you will leave him.
I know it is not as simple as that, and I don't know either of you, but if he does things that concern you that might be dangerous, he doesn't really love you as much as he should.
It is possible to enjoy training and have a healthy life without steroids. Working out 6-7 days a week with weights intensively is not really necessary for a hobby lifter, and for a natural lifter it is likely to be too much.
There are many women that has experienced their husbands die from steroid use, don't be one of them. This is a very serious matter.
Using steroids when you are in a serious relationship, is extremely selfish. There are more to life than huge ripped muscles.
If anyone want to flame me for my advice, then go right ahead, I am not going to respond to any of the attacks, in fact I am not going to read any responses in this thread whatsoever. Good luck, whatever you decide, I have seen so many bodybuilders having a problem with serious relationships, because of their usage of steroids. Usually it is the users of steroids that becomes very angry of opinions like mine.
That said, what the fellow is doing is foolish. He doesn't know what he is doing, and taking alkylated products (which at least the Havoc is; I don't know anything about the other product) is liver-toxic. There are ways to do that tolerably but he doesn't know enough to be reasonably messing with such things. He also doesn't have the rest of his act together enough to be reasonably doing that even if he did have the knowledge.
What he is doing is like someone that hasn't bothered getting his car tuned up, that isn't bothering running premium gas (which this car is designed for), but thinks it a good idea to add nitromethane to the gas.
That could makes sense for someone with an appropriate vehicle that everything else is being done right, but doesn't make sense for that person.
As for your relationship advice, you're an idiot there too, stallion.