T Nation

Worried About Lab Results Before Cycle

Hi,
I am new to this section of T-Nation. I actually spend all of my time in the steroid section. I had my labs done because I wanted to start a cycle and I’m kind of disappointed by the numbers. They look bad to me. I’ve been reading the stickies in both this and the steroid forum and to be honest, I’m even more confused now. I’m posting here because this section seems to have more information on labs.

Here are the numbers (I had the test done at 8am):
LH = 4.1 Ref (1.5-9.3 mIU/mL)
FSH = 3.9 Ref (1.6-8.0 mIU/mL)
Prolactin = 11.6 Ref (2.0-18.0 ng/mL)
Estradiol = 23 Ref (< or = 39pg/mL)
Testosterone, Total, Males = 290 Ref (241-827 ng/dL)

I’m 37, 6’ 205lbs. My diet is good and I get 2800 cals a day with 200g of protein. My body fat is 19%. The test looks low to me. What about the LH, FSH, Prolactin, Estradiol numbers? My doctor told me that these are good numbers for someone my age but from the stickies I read, it seems like these are bad numbers (or am I misunderstanding the stickies?)

By the way, this is the cycle I planned on running:
Week 1-4: DBOL, 30mg a day, split into 10 mg, 3 times a day
LIV 52 while I’m taking the DBOL, 6 pills a day spread out
Milk Thistle while I’m taking the DBOL, 2 pills a day
Week 1-12: Test E, 500mg a week split into two 250mg shots taken on Tuesday and Friday
Week 1-16 Aromasin 12.5mg every day (carried 3 weeks into PCT)
Week 3-14 HcG 500iu a week split into two 250iu shots taken every Monday and Thursday (I would run the HcG all the way up until 5 days before PCT)

For the PCT
Week 15-16 Clomid 100mg and Nolva 40 mg both split into twice a day
Week 17-18 Clomid 50mg and Nolva 20 mg both once a day

After seeing these numbers, I’m kind of scared to even run a cycle now. I’ve read so many conflicting things. Some say that the cycle will further lower my test, others say that the PCT after the cycle will kick start my test production. I have everything ready to go and I was going to start next week but I’m a little hesistant now.

Any advice?

Thanks

I’m still reading stickies and I just saw something that I have to mention since it was in the sticky.

Back in February, I did one of those “Master Cleanse” fasting diets. I weighed 214.5 on February 5, 2013 (1st day of cleanse) and weighed 200.5 on February 20, 2013 (last day of cleanse).

I also did one back in 2012 for the same amount of time and went from 195 lbs to 182 lbs.

Since I finished that last fasting diet only 6 weeks ago, could that be the cause of my lab numbers? Is this reversable?

We’re you running Dbol in your last cycle? Has anyone checked your liver? Stop the juice man… Post more blood work and give units and ranges. Why is a guy who is trying to get bigger starving himself? You are confusing your body in my opinion…

Hello,
I apologize for the confusion. I must not have stated myself correctly. I’ve never run a cycle before. This will be my first.

Also, I did the cleanse a few times after I did a bulking (non steroidal, just eating alot of food) cycle. I would eat like a mad man for a few months and then diet down.

It’s worked in the past but now I see that it was wrong and I should have dieted correctly.

I was following bad advice.

Also,
I didn’t get a copy of the other labs but we did go over them. I did those labs back in June of 2012. My Vitamin D was low but I’ve been taking Vit D3 at 6000iu’s a day since then.

Get those labs please. Have you also looked at the thyroid basics sticky?

Waist size?
Blood pressure?

Need more data as per the advice for new guys sticky.

Tell us more about you instead of what you want to do with a cycle.

A cycle can make things worse.

Your PCT is stupid. High dose SERM[s] will create high levels of LH which can:

  • desensitize your LH, receptors. If that happens you are going to restart what?
  • create high E2 levels, which cannot be controlled with a competitive AI.

Do not consider bro-science dosing of AI or SERM, note and understand the recommendations here.

You have hypogonadism and your doctor is a idiot. You are in the right place to start dealing with this. Do not get T tunnel vision. You do not need T, you need to look and see if there is a problem where low T is the symptom. So we need a lot more data from you and labs. There is a lot to learn. Get that cycle crap out of your head and start looking at the stickies blinded by a filter for cycles and a quick fix.

Starvation diets are dangerous. You feel better or worse after those. You need to start thinking of your overall health and nutrition.

Hi,
I just took my blood pressure now and it’s 119/78. I take the vitamin D3 at 6000ius every day, I take Orange Triad every day and fish oil every day. No drgs, drinking or smoking. I exercise 4 times a week with mainly compound lifts (squats, deadlifts, overhead presses, bench presses, cleans and snatches). I use a row machine once or twice a week for 15 mins.

My waist is a 36.

I’ll get the rest of the labs from my doctor right now. I won’t start the cycle either.

Thanks

Something else also.

Back when I was 25, I had a massive pain in my right testicle. At first the doctor thought I had a STD or something so he gave me a shot. The pain went away for a couple of days and come raging back. Went to a different doctor and he diagnosed me with epidimytis (sp?). He gave me ciprofloxacin (sp?) for it. For the next three years, the pain came and went, I was given more ciprofloxacin during that time period. The docs would put me on it for 2 to 3 weeks at a time. I probably took it 3 times or so during that 3 year time period. I was also given a DRE and it was determined that I have prostatisis (sp?). I was given Flomax for that. I was 28 then.

After all this, I finally went to one more doctor who did an untrasound of my testicle. He said that I have a hydrocele on the right testicle or epididymitis (probably the epididymitis). He said that was the source of my testicle pain and that he would like to remove it but it would render me sterile so I just left it alone.

I still have the pain but it’s a dull pain and I’ve gotten used to it by now.

The final diagnosis was chronic prostatitis, chronic epididymitis and the hydrocele. I haven’t taken any medications since 2003 for any of those conditions however.

Again, I want to thank all of you and my doc is getting me the lab results from the tests he did back in June of 2012.

Collected 6/8/12
Recieved 6/9/12

Quest Diagnostics

Test: CS/HDL/AMY/CK/OSMOLALITY/T4/T3U/TSH/RPR/CBD/UA+ALB
CHEM-SCREEN PNL+HDL,TIBC
Glucose, fasting 82 REF 65-99 mg/dL
Sodium 141 Ref 135-146mmol/L
Potassium 4.9 Ref 3.5-5.3 mmol/L
Chloride 104 Ref 98-110 mmol/L
Carbon dioxide 27 ref 21-33 mmol/L
urea nitrogen 16 ref 7-25 mg/dL
Creatinine 1.10 ref 0.60-1.35 mg/dL

BUN/Creatinine Ratio NOT REPORTED WHEN VALUES ARE WITHIN NORMAL LIMITS ref 6-22

Uric Acid 5.2 Ref 4.0-8.0 mg/dL
Phosphorus 3.5 ref 2.5-4.5 mg/dL
Cholesterol, total 150 Ref 125/200mg/dL
HDL Cholesterol 59 ref >=40 mg/dL
Cholesterol/HDL Ratio 2.5 ref <= 5.0
LDL Cholesterol, calculated 83 ref <130mg/dL

Triglycerides 40 ref <150 mg/dL
Protein, total 7.0 ref 6.2-8.3 g/dL
albumin 4.6 ref 3.6-5.1g/dL
Globulin, Calculated 2.4 ref 2.1-3.7 g/dL
A/G ratio 1.9 ref 1.0-2.1
Bilirubin, total 0.4 ref 0.2-1.2 mg/dL
Bilrubin, direct 0.1 ref <=0.2 mg/dL
Alkaline Phosphatase 50 ref 40-115 U/L
GGT 19 ref 3-90 U/L
AST 22 ref 10-40 U/L
ALT 13 ref 9-60 U/L
LD 157 ref 100-220 U/L
Iron, total 86 ref 45-170mcg/dL
TIBC 330 ref 250-425 mcg/dL
Transferrin saturation 26 ref 20-50%
EGFR NON AFR American 88 ref >60 mL/min/1.73m2
EGFR AFR American 102 ref >60 mL/min/1.73m2

OSMOLALITY, serum 293 ref 275-295 mOsm/kg H2O

MICROALBUMIN, RANDOM
MICROALBUMIN 0.4 ref NOT ESTABLISHED mg/dL
MICROALBUMIN, RANDOM URINE 2 ref < 30 mcg/mg Creat

CREATININE, RANDOM URINE
Creatinine Random Urine 185 ref 20-370 mg/dL

TSH 0.68 ref 0.40 - 4.50 mIU/L

T4, Total 6.0 ref 4.5-12.0 mcg/dL

T3 Uptake 31 ref 22-35 percent
T4, free, calculated 1.9 ref 1.4-3.8 units

CK TOTAL 315 ref 44-196 U/L OUT OF RANGE

Amylase, Serum 70 ref 21-101 U/L

CBC INCLUDES DIFF/PLT
WBC 6.5 ref 3.8-10.8 Thous/mcL
RBC 4.92 ref 4.20-5.80 Mill/mcL
HEmoglobin 13.8 ref 13.2-17.1 g/dL
Hematocrit 42.1 ref 38.5-50%
MCV 85.5 ref 80.0-100.0 fL
MCH 28.0 ref 27.0-33.0 pg
MCHC 32.8 ref 32.0-36.0 g/dL
RDW 13.3 ref 11.0-15.0%
Platelet count 250 ref 140-400 Thous/mcL
MPV 8.8 ref 7.5-11.5 fL
Total neotrophils,% 54.1 ref 38-80%
Total lymphocytes,% 35.5 ref 15-49%
Moonocytes,% 9.0 ref 0-13%
eosinophils,% 1.1 ref 0-8%
Basophils,% 0.3 ref 0-2%
Neutrophils, Absolute 3517 ref 1500-7800 Cell/mcL
Lymphocytes, Absolute 2308 ref 850-3900 Cells/mcL
Monocytes, Absolute 585 ref 200-950 Cells/mcL
EOSINOPHILS, Absolute 72 ref 15-500 Cells/mcL
Basophils, Absolute 20 ref 0-200 cells/mcL
DIFFERENTIAL - An instrument differential was performed.

Urinalysis, Complete
Color Yellow Ref Yellow
Appearance Clear Ref Clear
Glucose, QL Negative ref Negative mg/dL
Bilirubin, Urine Negative ref Negative
Ketones Negative ref Negative mg/DL
Specific Gravity 1.020 ref 1.001 - 1.035
Blood Negative ref Negative
PH 6.0 ref 5.0-8.0
Protein, Total QL Negative ref Negative mg/dL
Nitrite Negative ref NEgative
Leukocyte Esterase NEgative ref negative
Squamous Epithelial Cells None Seen ref <or =5 cells/hpf
WBC None Seen ref <or =5 cells/hpf
Bacteria None seen ref none seen/hpf
RBC None seen ref <or =3 cells/hpf
Hyaline Casts None seen ref None seen /lpf

Cardio CRP ® 0.5 ref <1.0 Lower relative cardiovascular risk

RPR w/titer + Conf RFX
RPR Screen Nonreactive ref non reactive

Vitamin D, 25-OH,LC/MS/MS
Vitamin D, 25-OH, TOTAL 33 ref 30-100ng/mL
Vitamin D, 25-OH, D3: 33
Vitamin D, 25-OH, D2: <4

After this I started taking Vitmin D3 at 6000iu’s every morning and still continue to do so.

This does not seem right:
TSH 0.68 ref 0.40 - 4.50 mIU/L

T4, Total 6.0 ref 4.5-12.0 mcg/dL

T3 Uptake 31 ref 22-35 percent
T4, free, calculated 1.9 ref 1.4-3.8 units

Have you also looked at the thyroid basics sticky?

T3 Uptake ? A measurement of the amount of available binding sites for free T3 on thyroxine-binding proteins.

You appear to have a degree of hypothyroidism. However, lowish TSH is unexpected. Possible fit with iodine deficient with some hyper activity in the thyroid, subsequent to chronic low iodine; but that is a SWAG. Really need your iodine intake HISTORY from iodized salt and vitamins that list iodine and need your oral body temps as per the sticky.

Your hematocrit and hemoglobin is lowish. Some of that can be expected from low T. But there can be other causes. Do you have digestive problems or food sensitivities?

So you are normal! Most guys here with low T have some thyroid issues. [Queue twilight zone theme music.] We have no idea why this is happening. We do know that this sited content and Google are selecting for guys who fit this profile. Do most TRT guys in the wild have similar problems? We do not know.

“Elevation of CK is an indication of damage to muscle. It is therefore indicative of injury, rhabdomyolysis, myocardial infarction, myositis and myocarditis. The use of statin medications, which are commonly used to decrease serum cholesterol levels, may be associated with elevation of the CPK level in about 1% of the patients taking these medications, and with actual muscle damage in a much smaller proportion.”

You need to avoid having any sore muscles before doing lab work.

Cholesterol is too low, better at 180.

Prostatitis: should have PSA data, but never do such lab soon after DRE. Similarily, do not do thyroid lab after doc palpates your thyroid. Do not test prolactin for 24 hours after orgasm or holding babies or puppies.

What is your intake of red meat and eggs?

Come back with iodine and body temp data.

Thanks for such an in depth analysis. I wish my doctor did this.

I did do my labs with sore muscles since I work out alot.

My iodine data is: I don’t use too much salt since I’ve heard such bad things about it (high blood pressure, heart attack, etc.). The new vitamin I started taking for the past 6 weeks (Orange Triad) supplies 255 mcg of iodine (as Potassium iodine). I wasn’t taking this vitamin when I did this test back in June of last year.

My body temps are always measured at the doc’s office and it’s always 98.7 or 98.6. I’ve never had it lower than 98.5. I never took it early in the morning like the sticky said. I will do that tomorrow.

I don’t have any food sensitivites or digestive problems. I will be honest, my eating hasn’t been the best over the years however. I’ve skipped meals alot and I’ve sometimes gone a whole day without food. That’s why I stayed at 6 feet tall and 145-155 lbs from 16 years old to 27 years old. Around 27 I started gaining weight and I went to 175. I then went through a stressful time around 30 years old and went back to 145. Since 30 years old, I’ve slowly gained, getting back to 175 around 32 years old, 185 around 34, getting to 195 last year and now, at 37, 205. I would say that since the beginning of the year is when I really took my nutrition seriously and started documenting the food I eat with an app on my phone.

Also, with the documentation in my diet, I do eat more red meat, chicken and eggs. I try to get 200g of protein a day. I wasn’t doing this last year when I took the test.

I’ve got a question. From what I’ve been reading so far, it seems like my poor diet and nutrition is the cause of these problems. Could that be it?

Thanks again for taking the time to do all of this for me.

[quote]CobraMustangSVT wrote:
Thanks for such an in depth analysis. I wish my doctor did this.

I did do my labs with sore muscles since I work out alot.

My iodine data is: I don’t use too much salt since I’ve heard such bad things about it (high blood pressure, heart attack, etc.). The new vitamin I started taking for the past 6 weeks (Orange Triad) supplies 255 mcg of iodine (as Potassium iodine). I wasn’t taking this vitamin when I did this test back in June of last year.

My body temps are always measured at the doc’s office and it’s always 98.7 or 98.6. I’ve never had it lower than 98.5. I never took it early in the morning like the sticky said. I will do that tomorrow.

I don’t have any food sensitivites or digestive problems. I will be honest, my eating hasn’t been the best over the years however. I’ve skipped meals alot and I’ve sometimes gone a whole day without food. That’s why I stayed at 6 feet tall and 145-155 lbs from 16 years old to 27 years old. Around 27 I started gaining weight and I went to 175. I then went through a stressful time around 30 years old and went back to 145. Since 30 years old, I’ve slowly gained, getting back to 175 around 32 years old, 185 around 34, getting to 195 last year and now, at 37, 205. I would say that since the beginning of the year is when I really took my nutrition seriously and started documenting the food I eat with an app on my phone.

Also, with the documentation in my diet, I do eat more red meat, chicken and eggs. I try to get 200g of protein a day. I wasn’t doing this last year when I took the test.

I’ve got a question. From what I’ve been reading so far, it seems like my poor diet and nutrition is the cause of these problems. Could that be it?

Thanks again for taking the time to do all of this for me.[/quote]

Your thyroid is totally fine there is nothing alarming about your thyroid numbers…it looks like there is a testicle issue. If I had to guess, it is not so much to do with your pituitary as it is with your testicles. There are tests such as injecting HCG to see how your testicles respond in making testosterone to see if there is indeed an issue there or not and I would speak to your dr about that.

Hello Receptor,
Thanks for the reply. I greatly appreaciate it.

I’m going to see an endo doc about the testicle pain (hydrocele). That might be my issue.

I’ve been reading the sitckies here and reading other people’s posts and I don’t have the same problems.

Here is a bio (I apologize for not puttint it up sooner):

-age
–37

-height
–5’11.5/6ft

-waist
–36/38

-weight
–205 (this morning)

-estimated body fat
–19% (this morning)

-Blood pressure
–119/79 (this morning)

-Temperature readings
–98.6 or 98.7. Temps stay steady

-describe body and facial hair
–Small frame which got larger as I got older. As I stated earlier, I was 145-155 when I was younger, get to 175 and slowly went up to 205 in my late 30’s.
–Facial hair comes in heavier now. I used to take 3 days to grow a 5 o’clock shadow when I was younger (in my 20’s). Now it grows in the next day. It’s not patchy. Alot of changes happened in my 30s (increased facial and bodily hair and my body filled out too).

-describe where you carry fat and how changed
Current Carry fat in mid section. That is where most of my fat is.

-health conditions, symptoms [history]
– I described it earlier. Prostatitis, epididymitis, etc. Poor nutrition in the past and a ‘Master Cleanse’ starvation diet earlier this year, once last year and once the year before.

-Rx and OTC drugs, any hair loss drugs or prostate drugs ever
– In the past, ciprofloxacin for the epididymitis and prostatitis and Flomax for the prostatitis. LAst taken back in 2003-2004. Since then, no drugs except for fish oil, Vitamin D and Orange Triad Multivitamin.

-lab results with ranges
– Lab Results posted earlier.

-describe diet
– Posted earlier. 200g’s of protein, around 3000 or so calories. Suppliment with protein shakes to get more calories. Chicken, tuna, vegetable smoothies and 8 cups of water a day.

-describe training
– I follow this: http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/a_tried_and_true_bodybuilding_program_template
I do the 4 days split. My bench is 210, squat is 315 and deadlift is 415. I’ve been working out like this since December.

-testes ache, ever, with a fever?
– Yes, every day. It’s a dull pain since I was disgnosed with the chronic prostatis, chronic epididymitis and the hydrocele was found back in 2003. I just live with it now. No fever.

-how have morning wood and nocturnal erections changed
– Always have morning woods and always want sex. Chronic masterbater. I ejaculate at least once a day either with the girlfriend or by hand (mainly by hand). Even with the low test, libido is still extremely high.

*Current Symptoms"

-No fatigue
-no fog
-Sleeps well at night. Always gets 8 or so hours of sleep a night.
-No strength loss (except after the fast. Took me 6 weeks to get back to my regular working weight after I fasted.
-No pain or stiffness in my joints
-Hair is good.
-No Depression
-Good Memory

If you need any more info please let me know and thanks again for reading this and especially for any responses.

It is best if T4, fT4, T3, fT3 are near midrange. So there are indications that things are not great and TSH is lowish when the other readings suggest that TSH would be elevated. So we do need both waking and mid-afternoon body temps.

Temp taken at doctors office is looking for a fever, not slight under-temps. You are waking around and talking and that can lower your oral body temps. I do not trust the temple and IR thermometers for this purpose. Yes, they will detect a fever.

Thyroid function regulates body temperature. So we can tell a lot from that.

You do need more iodine, read that sticky.

Salt does not cause heart disease or high BP. When BP increases from the effects of endothelial dysfunction, one can lower BP by lowering blood volume. You can lower blood volume by reducing salt intake. So salt reduction treats a symptom of disease; high BP. And then the lower salt intake is doing nothing to address the underlying disease process!

What leads to endothelial dysfunction?

  • syndrome X aka metabolic disorder
    – low T
    – estrogen dominance
    – lower DHEA-S levels
    – lower HDL levels
    — increase HDL with
    -----fish oil and other EFA’s
    -----high potency B complex multi-vits
    -----anti oxidants including natural source vit E and vit C
    -----CoQ10 in the form if ubiquinol

Thanks again.

I’ll run out today and buy a thermometer and start posting my waking temps and mid day temps.

I’m working on increasing my salt intake and nutrition.

I’m also making an appointment with a urologist today so he can further check my testicle pain. It’s been a while (10 years) so maybe some fresh eyes can better help me.

I just bought a thermometer and took my temp now.

It’s 97.8. This was orally.

I just checked again and it’s still 97.8.

I’m gonna run out and get some iodine. I read the sticky and I’m low.

I also made an appointment with a urologist tomorrow so he could check out my nut.

Waking temp is 97.7