T Nation

World's Best Stand-Up Fighter?

Buakaw Por Pramuk?
Andy Souwer?
Masato?
Bonjansky?

Who else am I leaving out?

SAENCHAI!!! He is the best pound for pound stand up fighter by far.

Certainly none of that group mate…personally I’m a big fan of the Iron hands of Siam but Jonny is correct…saenchai FTW.

OMC

Again…boxing is pissed on…you can’t consider that a stand up art…or wait its shit compared to the other more complete ones?

anderson silva, obviously
gsp
cro cop
the animal that is manhoef
sower
pramuk

this is if they were to fight ONLY striking.
fedors a great striker but his tactfulness with incorporating grappling and striking is what makes him nearly invincible.

[quote]facko wrote:
Again…boxing is pissed on…you can’t consider that a stand up art…or wait its shit compared to the other more complete ones? [/quote]

Ahh don’t go there. Please. Please.

The styles are different. MMA striking is not the same as boxing, they’re not even comparable. No boxer can stand in with an MMA fighter with MMA rules, and no MMA fighter can stand in with a boxer by boxing rules.

I’m assuming that when they say stand up fighter, they mean striker who is allowed to use his hands, legs, elbows, and knees.

Not original at all but I really love watching Anderson Silva work his magic. BJ Penn from time to time can be a pretty good watch as well.

Saenchai Sor Kingstar?

[quote]JonnyTMT wrote:
SAENCHAI!!! He is the best pound for pound stand up fighter by far.[/quote]

Do you have any quality videos?

[quote]OMC wrote:
Certainly none of that group mate…personally I’m a big fan of the Iron hands of Siam but Jonny is correct…saenchai FTW.

OMC[/quote]

How can you rule out those perennial K-1 Max powers from consideration? Who would you rate as your top 10?

Ahh don’t go there. Please. Please.
The styles are different. MMA striking is not the same as boxing, they’re not even comparable. No boxer can stand in with an MMA fighter with MMA rules, and no MMA fighter can stand in with a boxer by boxing rules.

I’m assuming that when they say stand up fighter, they mean striker who is allowed to use his hands, legs, elbows, and knees.
You can’t really say that because we haven’t seen it yet but i hope a world class boxer crosses over soon.

[quote]drewh wrote:
Ahh don’t go there. Please. Please.
The styles are different. MMA striking is not the same as boxing, they’re not even comparable. No boxer can stand in with an MMA fighter with MMA rules, and no MMA fighter can stand in with a boxer by boxing rules.

I’m assuming that when they say stand up fighter, they mean striker who is allowed to use his hands, legs, elbows, and knees.
You can’t really say that because we haven’t seen it yet but i hope a world class boxer crosses over soon.[/quote]

Yes I can. The sports are completely different in training and scope.

And boxers won’t be crossing any time soon. World class boxers make a million times more moeny than MMA fighters.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
drewh wrote:
Ahh don’t go there. Please. Please.
The styles are different. MMA striking is not the same as boxing, they’re not even comparable. No boxer can stand in with an MMA fighter with MMA rules, and no MMA fighter can stand in with a boxer by boxing rules.

I’m assuming that when they say stand up fighter, they mean striker who is allowed to use his hands, legs, elbows, and knees.
You can’t really say that because we haven’t seen it yet but i hope a world class boxer crosses over soon.

Yes I can. The sports are completely different in training and scope.

And boxers won’t be crossing any time soon. World class boxers make a million times more moeny than MMA fighters.

[/quote]

nah, just de la hoya and mayweather make bank.

[quote]trmnlvlctyyy wrote:
OMC wrote:
Certainly none of that group mate…personally I’m a big fan of the Iron hands of Siam but Jonny is correct…saenchai FTW.

OMC

How can you rule out those perennial K-1 Max powers from consideration? Who would you rate as your top 10? [/quote]

Because K-1’s rules are limited. Yes they are excellent K-1 rules fighters but the limited rules mean that we can’t know how good they really are by “Stand up” standards.

I am a fan of many you listed but its like comparing boxing to western kickboxing. K-1 to Muay thai is another step again…not in class but simply in te amount of weapons you have at your disposal.

OMC

K-1 is a business and only promotes marketable fighters, not the most skilled necessarily.

And OMC is right about the K-1 rules. Many of the K-1 fighters have terrible clinch skills but they get away with it because K-1 limits clinching.

Check out Saenchai’s skills:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=saenchai&search_type=

[quote]OMC wrote:
trmnlvlctyyy wrote:
OMC wrote:
Certainly none of that group mate…personally I’m a big fan of the Iron hands of Siam but Jonny is correct…saenchai FTW.

OMC

How can you rule out those perennial K-1 Max powers from consideration? Who would you rate as your top 10?

Because K-1’s rules are limited. Yes they are excellent K-1 rules fighters but the limited rules mean that we can’t know how good they really are by “Stand up” standards.

I am a fan of many you listed but its like comparing boxing to western kickboxing. K-1 to Muay thai is another step again…not in class but simply in te amount of weapons you have at your disposal.

OMC

[/quote]

I usually like your posts but I think what you just wrote was lame. Like some Muay Thai snobbery.

A guy like Andy Souwer, he fights under several rule sets and wins. Muay Thai, K-1 and Shootboxing. You can’t be serious if you say you don’t know good he is.

The differences between K-1 and Muay Thai are not only because of the amount of weapons at your disposal. The entire scoring system is different. If the differences in scoring systems are as great as they are between Muay Thai and K-1 I don’t think you can say because Muay Thai allows elbows and clinch work that strikers who choose to fight in K-1 are somehow an unknown quantity or inferior.

Even if K-1 allowed elbows and clinch work it would still be significantly different because of the scoring.

Mike Zambidis
Arlovski

will stop at two so it doesnt turn into a list…

[quote]otoko wrote:

I usually like your posts but I think what you just wrote was lame. Like some Muay Thai snobbery.

A guy like Andy Souwer, he fights under several rule sets and wins. Muay Thai, K-1 and Shootboxing. You can’t be serious if you say you don’t know good he is.

The differences between K-1 and Muay Thai are not only because of the amount of weapons at your disposal. The entire scoring system is different. If the differences in scoring systems are as great as they are between Muay Thai and K-1 I don’t think you can say because Muay Thai allows elbows and clinch work that strikers who choose to fight in K-1 are somehow an unknown quantity or inferior.

Even if K-1 allowed elbows and clinch work it would still be significantly different because of the scoring.

[/quote]

Unlikely to be Muay thai snobbery since I’m not from a Muay thai background myself but I see what you mean. What my post meant was that “stand up” fighting is EVERYTHING on the feet. Until K-1 fighters compete with the elbows and knees and clinch without restriction you can’t assess their position as a “standup fighter”. I’m a bid Souwer fan as I love his style of fighting and I think Masato’s hands are great.

Theres no doubt these guys have awesome skills but put them against the clinch and elbows of the top thai or dutch fighters and things may not go as well for them. Even Buakaw who I believe has lumpinee stadium titles under his belt isn’t held in the highest regard back in thailand.

[quote]OMC wrote:
otoko wrote:

I usually like your posts but I think what you just wrote was lame. Like some Muay Thai snobbery.

A guy like Andy Souwer, he fights under several rule sets and wins. Muay Thai, K-1 and Shootboxing. You can’t be serious if you say you don’t know good he is.

The differences between K-1 and Muay Thai are not only because of the amount of weapons at your disposal. The entire scoring system is different. If the differences in scoring systems are as great as they are between Muay Thai and K-1 I don’t think you can say because Muay Thai allows elbows and clinch work that strikers who choose to fight in K-1 are somehow an unknown quantity or inferior.

Even if K-1 allowed elbows and clinch work it would still be significantly different because of the scoring.

Unlikely to be Muay thai snobbery since I’m not from a Muay thai background myself but I see what you mean. What my post meant was that “stand up” fighting is EVERYTHING on the feet. Until K-1 fighters compete with the elbows and knees and clinch without restriction you can’t assess their position as a “standup fighter”. I’m a bid Souwer fan as I love his style of fighting and I think Masato’s hands are great.

Theres no doubt these guys have awesome skills but put them against the clinch and elbows of the top thai or dutch fighters and things may not go as well for them. Even Buakaw who I believe has lumpinee stadium titles under his belt isn’t held in the highest regard back in thailand.

[/quote]

Sorry about the snobbery remark.

Still Souwer is Dutch and is highly regarded in Holland. Also he took Yodsaenklai’s belt. Whatever you want to say about Yod now, Yod was the man then. Which was Muay Thai rules in Slamm(it is a promotion). Actually alot of these guys in K-1 max did fight Dutch and Thai fighters under Muay Thai rules and won. Yod fought in K-1 as well. SHould he have been in the tournament series? Probably

Muay Thai supporter are correct that K-1 max does not always bring in the best Muay Thai fighters. I think they alot of times try to bring in the guys they can promote.

Souwer vs Yodsanklai was fought under K-1 rules, and wasn’t for any belt. Souwer won a decision (many people felt it should have gone to Yod, despite his below normal performance) and if it had been scored under Muay Thai rules he would definitely have won. I’m not trying to put Andy down as he is a great fighter and I have been a fan of his for a long time, just putting out some info.