T Nation

Workout Program on AAS and Off

WORKOUT A
5x5 Squat
5x5 Standing Milatery Press
5x5 Pull Up

-REST DAY-

WORKOUT B
5x5 Dead Lift
5x5 Bench Press

3x8 Barbell Curls (not too sure about this one, might cut it out)
3x8 Tricep excersise (might cut this one aswell)

Overtraining the bicep and tricep?

Example:
Monday - Work A
Tuesday - Rest
Wednesday - Work B
Thursday - Rest
Friday - Work A
Satuday - Rest
Sunday - Work B

5x5 While on AAS and 3x5 while off AAS or to break a platue.

Any suggestions?

Sorry to break it to you, but that is a pitiful amount of volume even for no steroids at all. You will need triple the volume, in my opinion, if you wish to use steroids as well as add 2 more workout days. You won’t even graze the flesh with that kind of program if you go on gear.

And are you kidding me, 3 sets of exercises for 3 DIFFERENT body parts per day every 2 days? That’s almost 1 set per day! I’m honestly laughing at this right now. Not trying to be mean, but that is overly ridiculous.

I do 15+ sets for 2 different body parts each on top of finishing off with about 10 sets for another body part like traps or calves. That’s about 40 sets in a workout that I do with or without gear. Then I’ll do the same thing 2 more days in a row until I’ve hit Chest, Back, Legs, Shoulders, Biceps, Triceps, Calves, Traps, and Forearms. I will then repeat the same thing for another 3 days and on day 7 rest by doing only ab work.

Besides, that looks like a Rippetoes program. Rippetoes are generally considered for beginners. Great exercises, though I could add a lot more to that list.

Honestly, I think that the whole “because the biceps and triceps are smaller, they need less volume” is a load of crap. My triceps get hit 6 days a week. Day 1 is from benching, day 2 is from overhead presses, day 3 is from direct tricep work, and repeat this process once more. I’d say my triceps get in a total of 70+ sets worth of work a week, 30 of them direct work.

Anyhow, you are what, 19 years old? I checked your other 3 posts from when you were 18 last year. 300mcg of T3? Get a few more years of proper training, diet, and supplementation in and you will be ready for gear then maybe.

And if this is a troll, you’re a bastard. :slight_smile:

[quote]MATT2388 wrote:
Overtraining the bicep and tricep?[/quote]

LMAO. Don’t worry about AAS just yet mate.

[quote]BestDaddyEver wrote:
Sorry to break it to you, but that is a pitiful amount of volume even for no steroids at all.[/quote]

I disagree with this. One of the most successful strength programs I ever did was this:

Monday:
Box squat 8x3
Military press 5x5
Up-row 3x8 switched to face pull at some point

Wednesday:
Pull up 8x3
full squat 5x5
DB press 3x8

Friday:
Bench 8x3
Corner row 5x5
Good mornings 3x8 switched to RDLs, should have stayed with GMs

In addition, I rotated two ‘phases.’ Phase A, I would do 2-3 warm up sets, and then do the prescribed volume as above with a given weight. Phase B, I would work up to a max with the prescribed volume.

Ex. Full squats
Phase A
135x5, 185x5, 225x3, 275x5,5,5,5,5

Phase B
135x5, 185x5, 225x5, 275x5, 335x5

This worked extremely well. It got me to my first 500 DL, 375 full squat (Deeeeep), pullups 8x3 w/75 lbs and a box squat (paused on parallel box, no breifs) of 455x2. These numbers were great progress for me at the time, and without AAS. And I think the program would still bring results for me today.

[quote]BestDaddyEver wrote:
Sorry to break it to you, but that is a pitiful amount of volume even for no steroids at all. You will need triple the volume, in my opinion, if you wish to use steroids as well as add 2 more workout days. You won’t even graze the flesh with that kind of program if you go on gear.

And are you kidding me, 3 sets of exercises for 3 DIFFERENT body parts per day every 2 days? That’s almost 1 set per day! I’m honestly laughing at this right now. Not trying to be mean, but that is overly ridiculous.

I do 15+ sets for 2 different body parts each on top of finishing off with about 10 sets for another body part like traps or calves. That’s about 40 sets in a workout that I do with or without gear. Then I’ll do the same thing 2 more days in a row until I’ve hit Chest, Back, Legs, Shoulders, Biceps, Triceps, Calves, Traps, and Forearms. I will then repeat the same thing for another 3 days and on day 7 rest by doing only ab work.

Besides, that looks like a Rippetoes program. Rippetoes are generally considered for beginners. Great exercises, though I could add a lot more to that list.

And if this is a troll, you’re a bastard. :)[/quote]

Then why does Bill Starr 5x5

-Linear Version for Intermediate Lifters-
geocities.com/elitemadcow1/5x5_Program/Linear_5x5.htm

Use this setup in his training?

[quote]MATT2388 wrote:
BestDaddyEver wrote:
Sorry to break it to you, but that is a pitiful amount of volume even for no steroids at all. You will need triple the volume, in my opinion, if you wish to use steroids as well as add 2 more workout days. You won’t even graze the flesh with that kind of program if you go on gear.

And are you kidding me, 3 sets of exercises for 3 DIFFERENT body parts per day every 2 days? That’s almost 1 set per day! I’m honestly laughing at this right now. Not trying to be mean, but that is overly ridiculous.

I do 15+ sets for 2 different body parts each on top of finishing off with about 10 sets for another body part like traps or calves. That’s about 40 sets in a workout that I do with or without gear. Then I’ll do the same thing 2 more days in a row until I’ve hit Chest, Back, Legs, Shoulders, Biceps, Triceps, Calves, Traps, and Forearms. I will then repeat the same thing for another 3 days and on day 7 rest by doing only ab work.

Besides, that looks like a Rippetoes program. Rippetoes are generally considered for beginners. Great exercises, though I could add a lot more to that list.

And if this is a troll, you’re a bastard. :slight_smile:

Then why does Bill Starr 5x5

-Linear Version for Intermediate Lifters-
geocities.com/elitemadcow1/5x5_Program/Linear_5x5.htm

Use this setup in his training?[/quote]

Ok then. Try his program, and then try something else to see what works for you. You can’t just take someone else’s program every time you want to change up your workout because that won’t always work for you. I’m my best program writer because I taught myself how to be. Try it.

Im taking your advice, and up the volume. I have wrote up a rough workout program so its not in order of when i do them.

-Workout A-
Standing Overhead Press 5x5
Barbell Curls 3x8
Dumbell Curls 3x15
Skull Crusher 3x8

-Workout B-
Squats 5x15
Lunges 3x8
Standing Calf Raises (adding more excersise) 3x15

-Workout C-
Bench Press 5x5
Pull Up 5x5
Shrugs 5x10
Dumbell Chest fly 3x15
Dumbell Pull up 3x15
Dumbell Press 3x15

~REST~

Suggestions on this?

Any links to sites for info to read upon, that dont contradict each other, would be great aswell!

[quote]MATT2388 wrote:
Im taking your advice, and up the volume. I have wrote up a rough workout program so its not in order of when i do them.

-Workout A-
Standing Overhead Press 5x5
Barbell Curls 3x8
Dumbell Curls 3x15
Skull Crusher 3x8

-Workout B-
Squats 5x15
Lunges 3x8
Standing Calf Raises (adding more excersise) 3x15

-Workout C-
Bench Press 5x5
Pull Up 5x5
Shrugs 5x10
Dumbell Chest fly 3x15
Dumbell Pull up 3x15
Dumbell Press 3x15

~REST~

Suggestions on this?

Any links to sites for info to read upon, that dont contradict each other, would be great aswell![/quote]

You need to do more back and leg work. Add the deadlift, rows, incline bench, dips, leg curls, leg extensions, leg press, more pull-ups, lateral shoulder raises, bent over shoulder raises, hammer curls, reverse curls, possibly even some forearm work, more calf work, especially seated calf work, and I personally like to do 5 - 10 sets of trap work twice a week.

When I do back, I usually do something like this:

5x6 Deadlift
4x6 weighted chin-ups
4x6 bent-over barbell rows
4x6 wide-grip pull-ups
4x6 T-bar rows

That’s my back workout. You can cut down the sets a little bit, but I would suggest doing lots of deadlifts, lots of rows and lots of pull-ups. Those will get you thick and juicy. Your posture will improve, you’ll look bigger, you’ll feel bigger, you’ll just feel better in general if you have a sturdy back. I love back workouts.

You need some lower rep work in there with your squats. You’ll gain strength faster that way. Here’s my leg work out while I’m at it with helping you:

5x6 Deep Squat
5x6 Leg Curls
5x6 Leg Exensions
5x6 Leg Press

Or something along those lines. My leg workout isn’t exactly like that, but close enough.

You also need more shoulder work. Add some lateral raises (side raises) and rear delt work. You’re just basically working out your favorite body parts in this regime and adding in some leg work and back work to satisfy us it looks like. You have to hit your WHOLE body to get the full effect of weight training. Like I said, my triceps alone get more sets weekly than that entire regime you just listed. I just counted up my sets and I usually get in about 230 sets of work per week. I know some guys don’t like large amounts of sets, but it works for me and lots of guys I know. I’m not saying to do that much, but your workouts look unorganized, so I’m trying to help you.

Really, and I, in all of the meanings of really, don’t use steroids. You will mess yourself up or at the very best not see any results.

[quote]BestDaddyEver wrote:
You need to do more back and leg work. Add the deadlift, rows, incline bench, dips, leg curls, leg extensions, leg press, more pull-ups, lateral shoulder raises, bent over shoulder raises, hammer curls, reverse curls, possibly even some forearm work, more calf work, especially seated calf work, and I personally like to do 5 - 10 sets of trap work twice a week.

When I do back, I usually do something like this:

5x6 Deadlift
4x6 weighted chin-ups
4x6 bent-over barbell rows
4x6 wide-grip pull-ups
4x6 T-bar rows

That’s my back workout. You can cut down the sets a little bit, but I would suggest doing lots of deadlifts, lots of rows and lots of pull-ups. Those will get you thick and juicy. Your posture will improve, you’ll look bigger, you’ll feel bigger, you’ll just feel better in general if you have a sturdy back. I love back workouts.

You need some lower rep work in there with your squats. You’ll gain strength faster that way. Here’s my leg work out while I’m at it with helping you:

5x6 Deep Squat
5x6 Leg Curls
5x6 Leg Exensions
5x6 Leg Press

Or something along those lines. My leg workout isn’t exactly like that, but close enough.

You also need more shoulder work. Add some lateral raises (side raises) and rear delt work. You’re just basically working out your favorite body parts in this regime and adding in some leg work and back work to satisfy us it looks like. You have to hit your WHOLE body to get the full effect of weight training.

Like I said, my triceps alone get more sets weekly than that entire regime you just listed. I just counted up my sets and I usually get in about 230 sets of work per week. I know some guys don’t like large amounts of sets, but it works for me and lots of guys I know. I’m not saying to do that much, but your workouts look unorganized, so I’m trying to help you.

Really, and I, in all of the meanings of really, don’t use steroids. You will mess yourself up or at the very best not see any results.[/quote]

Thanks, really appreciate your time to write that up. Just hope it works for my body…

I really wouldn’t recommend quite that much volume for your level, but eventually you could do that.

[quote]BestDaddyEver wrote:
Sorry to break it to you, but that is a pitiful amount of volume even for no steroids at all. You will need triple the volume, in my opinion, if you wish to use steroids as well as add 2 more workout days. You won’t even graze the flesh with that kind of program if you go on gear.
[/quote]

I disagree. I thrive on low volume work and get overtrained on anything more. Probably because I have a pretty shit work capacity. An example of my training.

Week 1

Sat

10min HIIT Skipping
Overhead press variation: 2x6 or 15, 12
Rear lateral variation: 2x6 or 15, 12
Side lateral variation: 2x6 or 15, 12

Wed

10min HIIT sprints or bike
Abs variation: 2x6 or 15, 12
Rack deadlifts: 2x6 or 15,12
Chin variation: 2x6 or 15, 12
Row variation: 2x6 or 15, 12

Week 2

Sat

10min HIIT skipping
Flat or incline bench: 2x6 or 15, 12
Fly or pullover: 2x6 or 15, 12
Back ext. or single leg deads: 2x6 or 15, 12

Wed

10min HIIT sprints or bike
Bicep curl variation: 2x6 or 15, 12
Tricep press variation: 2x6 or 15, 12
Split squat or step-ups: 2x6 or 15, 12

I got to 6’3, 230lbs at 8%, naturally on this program, and 250lbs at 8-10% on 200mg of androgens per week. My bench is around 380lbs.

I’ve tried adding more volume in the past. I get less gains and burned out really fast. Believe me I’ve tried.

I understand my results are probably not typical. :slight_smile:

[quote]Dopa wrote:
BestDaddyEver wrote:
Sorry to break it to you, but that is a pitiful amount of volume even for no steroids at all. You will need triple the volume, in my opinion, if you wish to use steroids as well as add 2 more workout days. You won’t even graze the flesh with that kind of program if you go on gear.

I disagree. I thrive on low volume work and get overtrained on anything more. Probably because I have a pretty shit work capacity. An example of my training.

Week 1

Sat

10min HIIT Skipping
Overhead press variation: 2x6 or 15, 12
Rear lateral variation: 2x6 or 15, 12
Side lateral variation: 2x6 or 15, 12

Wed

10min HIIT sprints or bike
Abs variation: 2x6 or 15, 12
Rack deadlifts: 2x6 or 15,12
Chin variation: 2x6 or 15, 12
Row variation: 2x6 or 15, 12

Week 2

Sat

10min HIIT skipping
Flat or incline bench: 2x6 or 15, 12
Fly or pullover: 2x6 or 15, 12
Back ext. or single leg deads: 2x6 or 15, 12

Wed

10min HIIT sprints or bike
Bicep curl variation: 2x6 or 15, 12
Tricep press variation: 2x6 or 15, 12
Split squat or step-ups: 2x6 or 15, 12

I got to 6’3, 230lbs at 8%, naturally on this program, and 250lbs at 8-10% on 200mg of androgens per week. My bench is around 380lbs.

I’ve tried adding more volume in the past. I get less gains and burned out really fast. Believe me I’ve tried.

I understand my results are probably not typical. :)[/quote]

Why you lucky whore you! Hell I could jump in and out of the gym in 15 minutes every day like that. Though I did get to a slightly bigger body and higher bench naturally with my program, it would still be nice to get such results and not even have to blink while at the gym.

Gah it makes me crazy to think I do more sets in one day than you do all week!

Im doing low volume at the moment, it’s still twice the volume of that but i hate it.

Low Vol works for me now, mainly because im getting older i think. I grew up using arnolds workouts, 30-40 set per bodypart, abs, forearms and calves every day. They were ball breaking ass kicking workouts, often followed my a 3 mile jog and 10 rounds on a speedball or punchbag.

I just dont know how people can enjoy going to the gym and doing what i consider next to nothing -

well…results of course, thats whats important i suppose :frowning: