Workout Program...Legit?

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

And what gym does he lift at? He should have at least an 800lb back squat if he was actually capable of 650x10 front squat. Very few gyms on the planet have ‘several’ guys squatting more than that for a 1rm. Like, maybe 3? Maybe less?[/quote]

Without getting into the veracity of that guy’s lifting claims, I just wanted to contest this point, as it seems to be an old wives’ tale that gets propogated as truth. The relationship between high rep and low rep is tenuous at best, and we tend to be better at things we train specifically for.

Just my limited experience, but at least up to the mid-400s in squats, I found that when I was doing Big Beyond Belief and working in the 13-15 rep range, the difference between my 13-rep-max and my 1-rep-max was very (and somewhat disappointingly :frowning: ) close. So at least in a vacuum, imo someone who is front squatting for sets of 10 won’t necessarily have a much higher 1RM if he or she doesn’t train in that rep range ever.

[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

And what gym does he lift at? He should have at least an 800lb back squat if he was actually capable of 650x10 front squat. Very few gyms on the planet have ‘several’ guys squatting more than that for a 1rm. Like, maybe 3? Maybe less?[/quote]

Without getting into the veracity of that guy’s lifting claims, I just wanted to contest this point, as it seems to be an old wives’ tale that gets propogated as truth. The relationship between high rep and low rep is tenuous at best, and we tend to be better at things we train specifically for.

Just my limited experience, but at least up to the mid-400s in squats, I found that when I was doing Big Beyond Belief and working in the 13-15 rep range, the difference between my 13-rep-max and my 1-rep-max was very (and somewhat disappointingly :frowning: ) close. So at least in a vacuum, imo someone who is front squatting for sets of 10 won’t necessarily have a much higher 1RM if he or she doesn’t train in that rep range ever.[/quote]

front squats tend to be around 75% of a person’s back squat, assuming it actually gets trained.

Flip’s post is right on the money, IMO.

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
I get why someone shouldnt talk about another’s drug use, however, when someone is declaring some incredible feats of strength how is drug use not relevant?[/quote]

I doubt the accuracy of the comment in the first place. That’s my biggest issue there. The fact that he even included the ‘E’ (enanthate) ester in his post makes me think he has no idea what these drugs even are. A person familiar with that sort of thing would have just said he uses Tren. Probably wouldn’t even mention Test, because that would be a given. And amounts would be more interesting than just names of drugs…

A high level (world record holding) powerlifter recently outlined his drug use over the last year. The list of drugs, including insulin, peptides, etc was probably over 20 different compounds. And doses were listed for all of them. THAT was an interesting read. Saying ‘hey this strong dude uses Tren’ is not interesting or useful in any way.

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

And what gym does he lift at? He should have at least an 800lb back squat if he was actually capable of 650x10 front squat. Very few gyms on the planet have ‘several’ guys squatting more than that for a 1rm. Like, maybe 3? Maybe less?[/quote]

Without getting into the veracity of that guy’s lifting claims, I just wanted to contest this point, as it seems to be an old wives’ tale that gets propogated as truth. The relationship between high rep and low rep is tenuous at best, and we tend to be better at things we train specifically for.

Just my limited experience, but at least up to the mid-400s in squats, I found that when I was doing Big Beyond Belief and working in the 13-15 rep range, the difference between my 13-rep-max and my 1-rep-max was very (and somewhat disappointingly :frowning: ) close. So at least in a vacuum, imo someone who is front squatting for sets of 10 won’t necessarily have a much higher 1RM if he or she doesn’t train in that rep range ever.[/quote]

front squats tend to be around 75% of a person’s back squat, assuming it actually gets trained.

Flip’s post is right on the money, IMO.[/quote]

That doesn’t address the rep-range part of my argument. Also, that 75% number almost certainly does not scale linearly (again setting aside the veracity of the numbers claimed).

[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

And what gym does he lift at? He should have at least an 800lb back squat if he was actually capable of 650x10 front squat. Very few gyms on the planet have ‘several’ guys squatting more than that for a 1rm. Like, maybe 3? Maybe less?[/quote]

Without getting into the veracity of that guy’s lifting claims, I just wanted to contest this point, as it seems to be an old wives’ tale that gets propogated as truth. The relationship between high rep and low rep is tenuous at best, and we tend to be better at things we train specifically for.

Just my limited experience, but at least up to the mid-400s in squats, I found that when I was doing Big Beyond Belief and working in the 13-15 rep range, the difference between my 13-rep-max and my 1-rep-max was very (and somewhat disappointingly :frowning: ) close. So at least in a vacuum, imo someone who is front squatting for sets of 10 won’t necessarily have a much higher 1RM if he or she doesn’t train in that rep range ever.[/quote]

front squats tend to be around 75% of a person’s back squat, assuming it actually gets trained.

Flip’s post is right on the money, IMO.[/quote]

That doesn’t address the rep-range part of my argument. Also, that 75% number almost certainly does not scale linearly (again setting aside the veracity of the numbers claimed).[/quote]

I wasn’t particularly trying to address your argument, just showing that I agreed wiht Flip that a 650lb front squatter will have an 800lb+ back squat, easily.

I’m with flipcollar on this one, for example just from looking on youtube, Dan Green (no one will argue he’s not a strong) front squatted 575x3, so this guy front squatting 650x11…I’m calling bullshit.

Anyway time for some broscience, so MinusTheColon yeh that 75% number may not be perfectly accurate, I know that for me personally mine is way lower, but that’s besides the point really, if he’s front squatting that much then his ‘theoretical max’ would be somewhere around 885lbs. So even if he was massively better at reps than strength you’d assume it would be at least 800’ish, and that’s talking about his front squat, not his back squat which should obviously be way higher. So even if his 11 rep front squat was somehow 75% of his 1RM back squat then his back squat would be around 870lbs, and I’m pretty sure that’s something the more knowledgeable guys on here would know/have heard about. End of broscience.

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

And what gym does he lift at? He should have at least an 800lb back squat if he was actually capable of 650x10 front squat. Very few gyms on the planet have ‘several’ guys squatting more than that for a 1rm. Like, maybe 3? Maybe less?[/quote]

Without getting into the veracity of that guy’s lifting claims, I just wanted to contest this point, as it seems to be an old wives’ tale that gets propogated as truth. The relationship between high rep and low rep is tenuous at best, and we tend to be better at things we train specifically for.

Just my limited experience, but at least up to the mid-400s in squats, I found that when I was doing Big Beyond Belief and working in the 13-15 rep range, the difference between my 13-rep-max and my 1-rep-max was very (and somewhat disappointingly :frowning: ) close. So at least in a vacuum, imo someone who is front squatting for sets of 10 won’t necessarily have a much higher 1RM if he or she doesn’t train in that rep range ever.[/quote]

front squats tend to be around 75% of a person’s back squat, assuming it actually gets trained.

Flip’s post is right on the money, IMO.[/quote]

That doesn’t address the rep-range part of my argument. Also, that 75% number almost certainly does not scale linearly (again setting aside the veracity of the numbers claimed).[/quote]

I wasn’t particularly trying to address your argument, just showing that I agreed wiht Flip that a 650lb front squatter will have an 800lb+ back squat, easily.[/quote]

Especially if that’s a front squat for 11 reps. In fact that seems so obvious I don’t know how anyone could argue against it?

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
I get why someone shouldnt talk about another’s drug use, however, when someone is declaring some incredible feats of strength how is drug use not relevant?[/quote]

I doubt the accuracy of the comment in the first place. That’s my biggest issue there. The fact that he even included the ‘E’ (enanthate) ester in his post makes me think he has no idea what these drugs even are. A person familiar with that sort of thing would have just said he uses Tren. Probably wouldn’t even mention Test, because that would be a given. And amounts would be more interesting than just names of drugs…

A high level (world record holding) powerlifter recently outlined his drug use over the last year. The list of drugs, including insulin, peptides, etc was probably over 20 different compounds. And doses were listed for all of them. THAT was an interesting read. Saying ‘hey this strong dude uses Tren’ is not interesting or useful in any way.[/quote]

I get that. My point was not what gear the poster said this guy was using but the idea knowing what gear is being used when someone claims these ridiculous numbers

[quote]MattyXL wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
I get why someone shouldnt talk about another’s drug use, however, when someone is declaring some incredible feats of strength how is drug use not relevant?[/quote]

I doubt the accuracy of the comment in the first place. That’s my biggest issue there. The fact that he even included the ‘E’ (enanthate) ester in his post makes me think he has no idea what these drugs even are. A person familiar with that sort of thing would have just said he uses Tren. Probably wouldn’t even mention Test, because that would be a given. And amounts would be more interesting than just names of drugs…

A high level (world record holding) powerlifter recently outlined his drug use over the last year. The list of drugs, including insulin, peptides, etc was probably over 20 different compounds. And doses were listed for all of them. THAT was an interesting read. Saying ‘hey this strong dude uses Tren’ is not interesting or useful in any way.[/quote]

I get that. My point was not what gear the poster said this guy was using but the idea knowing what gear is being used when someone claims these ridiculous numbers [/quote]

And I totally agree with that point. The drug protocol I mentioned in my post of the unnamed powerlifter was incredibly eye-opening. It was a really interesting glimpse of what it actually takes to be a world-class powerlifter.

[quote]rusty92 wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

And what gym does he lift at? He should have at least an 800lb back squat if he was actually capable of 650x10 front squat. Very few gyms on the planet have ‘several’ guys squatting more than that for a 1rm. Like, maybe 3? Maybe less?[/quote]

Without getting into the veracity of that guy’s lifting claims, I just wanted to contest this point, as it seems to be an old wives’ tale that gets propogated as truth. The relationship between high rep and low rep is tenuous at best, and we tend to be better at things we train specifically for.

Just my limited experience, but at least up to the mid-400s in squats, I found that when I was doing Big Beyond Belief and working in the 13-15 rep range, the difference between my 13-rep-max and my 1-rep-max was very (and somewhat disappointingly :frowning: ) close. So at least in a vacuum, imo someone who is front squatting for sets of 10 won’t necessarily have a much higher 1RM if he or she doesn’t train in that rep range ever.[/quote]

front squats tend to be around 75% of a person’s back squat, assuming it actually gets trained.

Flip’s post is right on the money, IMO.[/quote]

That doesn’t address the rep-range part of my argument. Also, that 75% number almost certainly does not scale linearly (again setting aside the veracity of the numbers claimed).[/quote]

I wasn’t particularly trying to address your argument, just showing that I agreed wiht Flip that a 650lb front squatter will have an 800lb+ back squat, easily.[/quote]

Especially if that’s a front squat for 11 reps. In fact that seems so obvious I don’t know how anyone could argue against it?
[/quote]

LOL thank you. I thought it was. I used 800 as an absolute low-end number, specifically to avoid argument. I’m really surprised anyone could think that there would be a person who could FRONT squat 650x10, and not be able to handle 800 on their back for just 1. That shit blows me away.

[quote]rusty92 wrote:
Dan Green (no one will argue he’s not a strong) front squatted 575x3, so this guy front squatting 650x11…I’m calling bullshit.[/quote]
On top of that, Pat Mendes “only” did 600x1 while weighing 300 pounds. As an Olympic lifter, he’s probably as close to a “front squat specialist” as you’ll find.

This Kelei dude is not legit and is not “a quality guy.” He’s some anonymous dude who managed to develop an online reputation with 6,300+ posts on bb.com, with no avatar and no progress pics that I could find. His programming might be “in” with a certain crowd, but he’s Keyser Soze, Paul Bunyan, and Vic Richards wrapped into one. Only we’ve actually seen pictures of Vic Richards.

There was one thread way back in 2007 where the guy promised to post update pics “in 4 weeks”, showing himself at 211 pounds with 3-5% bodyfat … Two weeks later he disappeared from the site and came back four months later with no explanation that I saw.

Anyhow… as for the reps vs 1RM concept:

[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:
Also, that 75% number almost certainly does not scale linearly (again setting aside the veracity of the numbers claimed).[/quote]
Most people on this site over the years seem to pretty consistently report front squatting anywhere from 75-90ish% their back squat, FWIW. And that includes some 500+ and 600+ squatters.
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_strength/front_squat_to_back_squat_ratio_1
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_olympic/front_squat_to_back_squat_ratio

I have regrettably followed him over the years. I tried his routines several times and it never felt… right. I hurt myself several times to be told it must have been bad technique. Funny, I never had any problem with them BEFOREHAND.

These claims have resurfaced, as well as his claims he has an EMG machine that he tests on himself in his garage. He’s gone to ground saying he’ll be away from a few months bust with clients and commitments. He’s also claiming he’s writing an e-book that will allow everyone to design their own routines for the rest of their lives.

He is very dogmatic in his own beliefs and “supremely confident”, nor does he care he’s in the minority. Any time someone asks from proof of his grandiose stature, like… a photo … or to back up these superhuman figures… he ignores them. His minions will jump to his defence, even dismissing what appears to amount to blatant lies as being irrelevant.

Kel doesn’t do Back Squats, added the E so people didn’t dispute what he actually takes, because that is what he actually takes. Kel never goes below 8 reps on anything, some of his sessions are insanely long, Kel is training to be a doctor, he doesn’t want outside interference and people should respect that, Kel getting hold of an EMG machine, Bret Conteras owned one in his garage did he not? Kel has just gotten married and is planning to move, why should he spend all of his time trying to help individuals who are trying to tear him apart? I spent two years hanging around with him, he’s just a strange dude in general, like in the gym he will only listen to film scores, he wont ever listen to like general music, or like films, the guy is the smartest guy I know but his favourite film is Top Gun lol, I was overwhelmed that I managed to get him to watch Memento after months of convincing.

He taught me how to safely use gear and I appreciate him for that, always helped with anything I’ve ever asked helped with and supported me when I broke up with my partner, he introduced me to DMT lol, he’s fixed problems my doctor couldn’t and more. He’s just a great all around guy and I wish he wouldn’t get knocked so much.

would like to see video of front squat. blur out face?

[quote]Sawinwright wrote:
Kel doesn’t do Back Squats, added the E so people didn’t dispute what he actually takes, because that is what he actually takes. Kel never goes below 8 reps on anything, some of his sessions are insanely long, Kel is training to be a doctor, he doesn’t want outside interference and people should respect that, Kel getting hold of an EMG machine, Bret Conteras owned one in his garage did he not? Kel has just gotten married and is planning to move, why should he spend all of his time trying to help individuals who are trying to tear him apart? I spent two years hanging around with him, he’s just a strange dude in general, like in the gym he will only listen to film scores, he wont ever listen to like general music, or like films, the guy is the smartest guy I know but his favourite film is Top Gun lol, I was overwhelmed that I managed to get him to watch Memento after months of convincing.

He taught me how to safely use gear and I appreciate him for that, always helped with anything I’ve ever asked helped with and supported me when I broke up with my partner, he introduced me to DMT lol, he’s fixed problems my doctor couldn’t and more. He’s just a great all around guy and I wish he wouldn’t get knocked so much. [/quote]

Just because someone’s a nice guy, doesn’t mean they aren’t also full of horseshit.

Have you anointed his feet in oil yet?

I have too much time on my hands and reread this. Is this guy seriously suggesting he does 100 front squats at ~650lbs in a single workout? at 250lbs? And people are expected to take this seriously? I’m so blown away I can’t even be sarcastic.

This thread is so fucking stupid. I can’t believe it’s been resurrected twice now.

His latest routine thread is a fun read. I start calling him out and questioning things, and all of a sudden now he’s leaving BB.com never to return.

[quote]grouchyjarhead wrote:
His latest routine thread is a fun read. I start calling him out and questioning things, and all of a sudden now he’s leaving BB.com never to return.[/quote]

Yes, I noticed that. As someone suggested further up - one video - face blurred out, would be all we need to curb our doubts.