T Nation

Workout During PCT?

During PCT which kind of workout is the best choise?

[quote]cadav wrote:
During PCT which kind of workout is the best choise?[/quote]

Heavy and hard allways…all year round.

De-load weeks and time off to recover obviuosly.

But I allways go heavy and hard.

Why else would you lift?!

Usually I run that way too :slight_smile:

Always.

But during the never-ending-research I read someone that suggest to avoid hight intensity training to reduce catabolic hormones…

[quote]cadav wrote:
Usually I run that way too :slight_smile:

Always.

But during the never-ending-research I read someone that suggest to avoid hight intensity training to reduce catabolic hormones… [/quote]

The much talked about use of Lr3 during this time would help… but if that is not availible then you will need to look at nutrition and keep the protien coming in thick and fast and using plenty BCAA’S. Providing you get your LH levels back up (this being the most important factor) and you keep the rest in mind you shouldn’t have too much of a problem. good luck.

I’m planning to add PEGMGF in my PCT to give a try to that stuff.
Also the cycle was not too long (10week + tapering)

[quote]cadav wrote:
I’m planning to add PEGMGF in my PCT to give a try to that stuff.
Also the cycle was not too long (10week + tapering)[/quote]

As long as you “turn back on” your balls to help support the gains you have made in an effective way and strong enough, that combined with the PEGMGF you should see nice results.

I’m sure othwers will give some more sound advice also.

O.k The buck will stop here with what I have to say.

Maintainace work only.

Fluff up workouts gear for keeping what you have.

There is no point in pushing your body to the extreme when you are not in a position to benifit from it.

All you are doing is breaking down hard-earned muscle that you lack the ability to repair and rebuild.

You will lose a lot of extra muscle size this way, IGF or no IGF.

Anyone who tells you differently I would seriously question their cred.

Yes there are stories of using a lot of G and a lot of slin, and being able to maintain size, but this is extremely hard core, and not to friendly either to keeping a slim midsection.

The body can only grow at certain times of the year anyways. You can not grow always. This is why trainers have designed training programs with the intentions of ‘peaking’. Once you have reached a peak, gains train off, as muscle fatigue joint, and tendon injuries compile.

You need down time to recuperate, and you might as well consider your time ‘off’ as much of that time.

Timing is everything in growth so time the start of your cycles to coencide with when you are the healthiest, both mentally, physically, and spiritually, and you have training momentum, a good diet in place and the time available to train and rest.

That is when you go balls out, and that is when you grow.

Enough said. Final word - and frankly since I am in a bad mood anyone who tells you to contiue going hard while tapering or off cycle is an idiot who doesn’t know what the hell they are talking about.

Cadav, you have more experience than I do with cycles as I lurk around here - but I took 17 weeks off after my first 12 on / I just did the same training setup I did while on except cut the number of sets by half or more.

So I might have been doing 5-6 working sets with 4 exercises while on for a session, and then when I was off I just did 1-2 working sets of whatever 4 exercises with almost the same weight. And I maintained almost all my strength and size from that simple alteration of set reduction.

[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
Maintainace work only.
[/quote]

Thanks P22 for your help.

So, if I have understood your point I should shift to a lighter work for all the PCT length?

I have planned my cycle to have the PCT during my “yearly” low intensity/recovery phase.

But can you give me more info about what you think is maintainace work?

a drop of (for example) 20% on weight with my common workout?

By now I’m in the middle of a GBC plan…
should i switch to a fullbody for maintain during pct? or can I workout with a split routine and reduced intensity?

[quote]Lejes wrote:
So I might have been doing 5-6 working sets with 4 exercises while on for a session, and then when I was off I just did 1-2 working sets of whatever 4 exercises with almost the same weight. And I maintained almost all my strength and size from that simple alteration of set reduction.[/quote]

Thank you for the info

The difference for me is more about volume and frequency. My training is a variation of the Westside Template of course. When I’m on I’d say my volume of sets per workout goes up by maybe 1/3. Also the assistance work I do on my off training days is up. On the gear we recovery faster so we can hit it harder and more often.

What I don’t change is every week I attempt a max bench-lift and max sqaut/dead-lift. Admittedly, the poundages start to wane but I still push to my body’s max on that given day; that is the key to Westside of course. The beauty of Westside also is those speed workouts are so beneficial for recovery as well.

[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
O.k The buck will stop here with what I have to say.

Maintainace work only.

Fluff up workouts gear for keeping what you have.

There is no point in pushing your body to the extreme when you are not in a position to benifit from it.

All you are doing is breaking down hard-earned muscle that you lack the ability to repair and rebuild.

You will lose a lot of extra muscle size this way, IGF or no IGF.

Anyone who tells you differently I would seriously question their cred.

Yes there are stories of using a lot of G and a lot of slin, and being able to maintain size, but this is extremely hard core, and not to friendly either to keeping a slim midsection.

The body can only grow at certain times of the year anyways. You can not grow always. This is why trainers have designed training programs with the intentions of ‘peaking’. Once you have reached a peak, gains train off, as muscle fatigue joint, and tendon injuries compile.

You need down time to recuperate, and you might as well consider your time ‘off’ as much of that time.

Timing is everything in growth so time the start of your cycles to coencide with when you are the healthiest, both mentally, physically, and spiritually, and you have training momentum, a good diet in place and the time available to train and rest.

That is when you go balls out, and that is when you grow.

Enough said. Final word - and frankly since I am in a bad mood anyone who tells you to contiue going hard while tapering or off cycle is an idiot who doesn’t know what the hell they are talking about.[/quote]

No disrespect intended here…

I think everyone is entitled to their own opinion on training in a “deficit state” even when at a caloric deficit. for example : 3. Heavy lifting to protect muscle mass

This is the philosophy championed by many top coaches. Even I’ve written an article detailing this approach in depth. It is now catching up in the bodybuilding circles since more and more elite bodybuilders keep lifting as heavy as they can during their pre-contest period.

We’ve all seen Ronnie’s 800lbs deadlift 2-3 weeks out from the Mr. Olympia or Johnny Jackson competing in powerlifting 3-4 weeks prior to the Toronto pro (bodybuilding) show. Dorian Yates, Marc Dugdale, Lee Priest, and several others are also proponents of lifting heavy year-round to keep their muscle mass: they don’t change their training between the off-season and pre-contest periods.

They let the cardio and diet drop the fat and simply lift weights to preserve muscle mass. It makes sense, too. When in a calories-restricted state, your body will look to drop some muscle tissue to alleviate its daily energy needs. Simply put, muscle is energy-expensive and when there’s a shortage of energy (calories and nutrients) it needs a darn good reason to keep it there!

The best way to maintain muscle mass is to give your body a good reason to keep it, and that reason is to lift heavy. Lifting heavy weights requires a lot of muscle tension, and that needs the muscle to be strong. To keep up with the demand, your body will have no choice but to maintain (or even increase) its muscle mass.

The above taken fron one of CT’s articles and contest prep when many are either going through PCT or in a corlific deficit state.

I think it’s about what works for you as an individual, after all what works for you may/may not work for the OP.

As for;[/quote] “anyone who tells you to contiue going hard while tapering or off cycle is an idiot who doesn’t know what the hell they are talking about.” [/quote]

I think you were having a bad day. ; )

You have to remember that the IFBB guys are still using steroids while prepping for a contest. This is a whole different ball game from what the OP was talking about.

[quote]firestanggt wrote:
You have to remember that the IFBB guys are still using steroids while prepping for a contest. This is a whole different ball game from what the OP was talking about.[/quote]

True…

Im refering to the principle that what will work for one person may/may not work for others and there is no positive blue print for everyone to use. Training and using AAS alike is a VERY individual interaction.

For some, going heavy while in PCT will work and for others like P22 it doesn’t, you need to find what works for YOU and not take what other people have as opinions, as gospel truth.

[quote]wings_931 wrote:
firestanggt wrote:
You have to remember that the IFBB guys are still using steroids while prepping for a contest. This is a whole different ball game from what the OP was talking about.

True…

Im refering to the principle that what will work for one person may/may not work for others and there is no positive blue print for everyone to use. Training and using AAS alike is a VERY individual interaction.

For some, going heavy while in PCT will work and for others like P22 it doesn’t, you need to find what works for YOU and not take what other people have as opinions, as gospel truth.[/quote]

Nope I completely dissagree with everything you have said.

and btw I never lift heavy,not even when preparing for a BB show, and I keep all my mass thankyou very much.

This is rediculous actually, the only thing you do is leave yourself open to get a muscle tear, as you are much more supceptable to injuryies when you are very lean.

This is suppose to be bodybuilding, not body ‘breaking’ How can you build muscle if you are on the sidelines with an injury?

Yeah, maybe Ronnie and some others lift heavy leading into a contest, but look what happened to him last year! he lost because of a torn tricept, torn lat and a torn calf. Hmm I wonder how that happened?

And then look at Dorian Yates. By the end of his run his body was so facked up he couldn’t even train. By rights he never should have won his last Olympia title.

You don’t need to lift heavy to gain size. I am living proof of that.

And as for training through PCT. I stand by all that I said.

There is no point in breaking down muscle that during this period, physiologically you LACK the ABILITY to repair!!! get it LACK! CANNOT!

It doesn’t matter how heavy you lift.

Not to mention that you leave yourself open for injuries, as while comming off, you’re unable to achieve the kind of pumps in the muscles that you could while full on, less lubrication equals more tears, strains, e.t.c.

You also will inevitable have some aches and pains you didn’t know about while on as many of the AAS that BB use have antiInflamitory effects that mask injuries. These are just going to get worse now that you don’t have good ol’ steroids on board to keep the inflamation at bay, and the rate of healing up.

Bad day? of course I am dieting but nah, I just get sick of seeing people come on these boards posing as if they actually know what they are talking about when in actual fact they are just spewing b.s.

I have walked the walk. I talk from experience here. I have tried all the different ways of comming off.

And then you use the line ‘everyone is different’ to validate yourself and your reasons.

That is a crock. Exercise is a science, and in science, yah there can be varience, but human physiology doesn’t strey that far from a straight line.

As for how to train while comming off.

My recomedations is a solid warm up to recruit as much blood flow as you can get. The one set that pushes you one or two reps away from failure.

There is no point in doing anymore, and no point in pushing to failure as you will just rip and tear more muscle that you cannot possible repair at this time. The only thing you are doing is maintaining your FITNESS at this point, and your Neurmuscular conections.

It is impossible to buildmuscle, so no exercise regime will work unless it is chemically aided.

Not to worry though, you need this time period anyway to recharge, heal your body and your mind, restore your natural homeostasis, so you will be able to respond strongly to your next cycle. Basically during this time you are setting yourself up to peak for your next steroid cycle - that means you time your aggressive training approaches/ calorie intake e.t.c to coinside with your next cycle.

Now, I have given away enough free information for now.

I should be charging for this stuff:)

[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
wings_931 wrote:
firestanggt wrote:
You have to remember that the IFBB guys are still using steroids while prepping for a contest. This is a whole different ball game from what the OP was talking about.

True…

Im refering to the principle that what will work for one person may/may not work for others and there is no positive blue print for everyone to use. Training and using AAS alike is a VERY individual interaction.

For some, going heavy while in PCT will work and for others like P22 it doesn’t, you need to find what works for YOU and not take what other people have as opinions, as gospel truth.

Nope I completely dissagree with everything you have said.

and btw I never lift heavy,not even when preparing for a BB show, and I keep all my mass thankyou very much.

This is rediculous actually, the only thing you do is leave yourself open to get a muscle tear, as you are much more supceptable to injuryies when you are very lean.

This is suppose to be bodybuilding, not body ‘breaking’ How can you build muscle if you are on the sidelines with an injury?

Yeah, maybe Ronnie and some others lift heavy leading into a contest, but look what happened to him last year! he lost because of a torn tricept, torn lat and a torn calf. Hmm I wonder how that happened?

And then look at Dorian Yates. By the end of his run his body was so facked up he couldn’t even train. By rights he never should have won his last Olympia title.

You don’t need to lift heavy to gain size. I am living proof of that.

And as for training through PCT. I stand by all that I said.

There is no point in breaking down muscle that during this period, physiologically you LACK the ABILITY to repair!!! get it LACK! CANNOT!

It doesn’t matter how heavy you lift.

Not to mention that you leave yourself open for injuries, as while comming off, you’re unable to achieve the kind of pumps in the muscles that you could while full on, less lubrication equals more tears, strains, e.t.c.

You also will inevitable have some aches and pains you didn’t know about while on as many of the AAS that BB use have antiInflamitory effects that mask injuries. These are just going to get worse now that you don’t have good ol’ steroids on board to keep the inflamation at bay, and the rate of healing up.

Bad day? of course I am dieting but nah, I just get sick of seeing people come on these boards posing as if they actually know what they are talking about when in actual fact they are just spewing b.s.

I have walked the walk. I talk from experience here. I have tried all the different ways of comming off.

And then you use the line ‘everyone is different’ to validate yourself and your reasons.

That is a crock. Exercise is a science, and in science, yah there can be varience, but human physiology doesn’t strey that far from a straight line.

As for how to train while comming off.

My recomedations is a solid warm up to recruit as much blood flow as you can get. The one set that pushes you one or two reps away from failure.

There is no point in doing anymore, and no point in pushing to failure as you will just rip and tear more muscle that you cannot possible repair at this time. The only thing you are doing is maintaining your FITNESS at this point, and your Neurmuscular conections.

It is impossible to buildmuscle, so no exercise regime will work unless it is chemically aided.

Not to worry though, you need this time period anyway to recharge, heal your body and your mind, restore your natural homeostasis, so you will be able to respond strongly to your next cycle. Basically during this time you are setting yourself up to peak for your next steroid cycle - that means you time your aggressive training approaches/ calorie intake e.t.c to coinside with your next cycle.

Now, I have given away enough free information for now.

I should be charging for this stuff:)[/quote]

Fair enough…that YOUR opinion.

Looks like we will have to disagree with eachother. Thanks for the insight.

thanks to all for the interesting input you give me.

I think I’ll some more research on the physiologic “side” of muscle rebuilding

Also I’m planning to use “P22 tapering” protocoll this time…