T Nation

Working Tired Muscles

Hi, so I’ve been doing a full body routine with full upper body on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.
I’m going to switch over to a split routine on Monday and try that out. I’m getting more serious about this, so I’m making sure that my nutrition, supplementation, and workout routine is proper and planned before I begin.

Starting today, I will be recording all food that I eat for 2 weeks.
The outline for a split routine that Gerdy recommended for me was:
Mon:back/arms
tues:legs
wed:chest/shoulders
thurs:legs
fri:back/arms
the following week switch the back/arms and chest/shoulder days so that the following week you will be training back/shoulders 1 and chest/arms 2
this is great in my opinion for keeping a balanced upper body and proper posture

I have a few questions about this:
When I train back, I do a lot of rows and things that I use my biceps for. If I am to do back and arms in the same day, my biceps are going to be pretty weak by the time that I get to isolating them.

The same goes for chest/shoulders. I do a lot of benching, inclined, declined, and flat when I train chest. Benching, especially inclined, works my shoulders a lot. By the time I get to isolating the shoulders with things like the shoulder press, they are much weaker than they could be.

What should I do about this? Will I get the same results even if I train a muscle that is already tired, or should I figure out a way to train each muscle fresh? Maybe I could do shoulders and arms on leg day or something?
What do you guys think about this?

Also, is only training a muscle group 1-2 times a week enough to stimulate growth and not just maintenance? I’ve been working my entire upper body 3 times a week and doing heavy bag work on off days and weekends for the past few months, so this seems like a lot less work to me.

Thanks

It can actually be beneficial to train a tired muscle as it can be that extra bit of work that provokes a hypertrophy response.

For your routine, it is fine. eg:… chest 9 sets total, with 6 sets of presses and 3 sets of flyes, then maybe do 3 sets of a overhead press and then isolative, this will give you some fine stimulation.

I also like to do just compound for a chest/delt split so 3 exercises per bp, and 3 sets per exercise. all compound! (maybe rear flyes too) it is tough and done 2x a week every week will lead to injury! but for 3 weeks or so its good! I would always do chest first in the workout though, the shoulders are heavily involved in horizontal presses.

It will mean less weight in the shoulder workout, but this isn’t necessarily bad. Hypertrophy isn’t JUST about strength, its stimulation - just make sure to create a program that has shoulders first next time so you can hit them hard, heavy and fresh… JMO.

And yes, 2x a week, even 1x a week is enough, provided the volume is high enough. and by way of design, your volume will increase from your full body split to your split-split(!) naturally.
Its the change that is good, the extra attention and focus you can provide each bodypart with.

(for me, if i train tri’s after chest or bi’s after back, i just do 6 sets total over 2 exercises for Tri or Bi).

Joe

how about

monday back and shoulders

tuesday legs

wednesday chest and arms

thursday legs

friday chest/back

go hard monday - thursday

friday will be like an optional day where you can go medium intensity or crank it up if you are feeling good. for example, if you are really sore from the past days, you’ll do a couple light sets of a couple push and pull movements. if you are feeling revved up, try SUPERSETTING bench/pull ups military press/deads rows/push ups

That seems good, but is shoulders only once a week, every week, enough to grow?
Also, what does supersetting mean?

Here is what I have come up with for the previously stated routine:

Week 1
Monday: back/arms
3xMax horizontal to the floor machine Rows
3xMax palms facing me Pull Ups
3xMax shoulder width grip cable Rear-Delt Rows
3xMax standing, little wider than shoulder width grip Rows, pulling bar to chest
4xMax lower back hyperextensions, holding plate in hands

3xMax dumbbell full arm Curls
3xMax hammer Curls
3xMax shoulder width grip EZ Curl bar Curls
3xMaxClosed rip EZ Curl bar Curls
3xMax wide grip EZ Curl bar Curls

3xMax closed grip Skull Crushers
3xMax cable Tricep extensions with bar, hands parallel to the floor
3xMax cable Tricep extensions with rope, hands vertical to the floor

3xMax behind the back EZ Curl bar closed grip Wrist Curls
3xMax EZ Curl bar reverse Wrist Curls over a bench

Tuesday: legs/abs
3xMax one-legged downward leg pushes, Squat movement but no stress on the spine
3xMax seated Leg Curls
3xMax seated reverse Leg Curls
3xMax one-legged standing Calf Raises on a platform holding a wall for support, weight belt if needed

2xMax Sit Ups
2xMax lying Leg Raises
2xMax elbow to knee Crunches
2xMax Crunches

Wednesday: chest/shoulders
3xMax dumbbell Flat Bench
3xMax Dumbell Inclined Bench
3xMax Declined Bench
3xMax Dips
3xMax machine Flys

3xMax machine seated Shoulder Press
3xMax shoulder width grip, seated, behind the head cable Pull Downs
3xMax dumbbell arms straight Side Raises
3xMax dumbbell arms straight Front Raises
Thursday: legs/abs
same as before

Friday: back/arms
same as before

Saturday: abs/cardio
2xMax Sit Ups
2xMax lying Leg Raises
2xMax elbow to knee Crunches
2xMax Crunches
5 3-4 minute heavy bag kickboxing sessions
1 hour of HIIT cardio on the elliptical

Sunday: cardio
5 3-4 minute heavy bag kickboxing sessions
1 hour of HIIT cardio on the elliptical

Week 2
Monday: chest/arms
3xMax dumbbell Flat Bench
3xMax Dumbell Inclined Bench
3xMax Declined Bench
3xMax Dips
3xMax machine Flys

3xMax dumbbell full arm Curls
3xMax hammer Curls
3xMax shoulder width grip EZ Curl bar Curls
3xMaxClosed rip EZ Curl bar Curls
3xMax wide grip EZ Curl bar Curls

3xMax closed grip Skull Crushers
3xMax cable Tricep extensions with bar, hands parallel to the floor
3xMax cable Tricep extensions with rope, hands vertical to the floor

3xMax behind the back EZ Curl bar closed grip Wrist Curls
3xMax EZ Curl bar reverse Wrist Curls over a bench

Tuesday: legs
same as before

Wednesday: back/shoulders
3xMax horizontal to the floor machine Rows
3xMax palms facing me Pull Ups
3xMax shoulder width grip cable Rear-Delt Rows
3xMax standing, little wider than shoulder width grip Rows, pulling bar to chest
4xMax lower back hyperextensions, holding plate in hands

3xMax machine seated Shoulder Press
3xMax shoulder width grip, seated, behind the head cable Pull Downs
3xMax dumbbell arms straight Side Raises
3xMax dumbbell arms straight Front Raises

Thursday: legs
same as before

Friday: chest/arms
same as before

Saturday: abs/cardio
same as before

Sunday: cardio
same as before

-reps will be done about 1-2 reps less than max with the last set of an exercise done to failure

Goals: constantly increasing strength/size/definition/ overall health
Diet: mostly meat/fish/vegetables. I am recording everything that I eat for two weeks.
Supplements: Protein Powder, Creatine, BCAAs capsules, Buffered Vitamin C capsules, Colostrum Gold, Cod Liver Oil, Vitamin E capsules

This is the first real routine that I have ever come up with, so any advice on how to improve this is appreciated.
Thank You

maybe tomorrow, gotta go to bed in 3 hours so i shouldn’t start reading this…

Joe

[quote]Joe Brook wrote:
maybe tomorrow, gotta go to bed in 3 hours so i shouldn’t start reading this…

Joe

[/quote]

Hahahahaha yah same here, that post is fucking long

Yea, I should really post this as its own thread so that people know what they’re getting themselves into.

lol I just finished responding to your pm with your routine. lol took me forever! But it’s alright man I like to help. lol

superset putting two exercises together in one set.
For example: start military press 8 reps then immediately upright row 8 reps then rest.

I do Giant sets every once in a while. I was showed this at Koloseum Gym in fullerton. It’s one of Milos Sarcev’s babies. lol Pretty fun and it will kick your ass…but that’s another story and belongs on another post.

Gerdy

Heh! :wink: