T Nation

Working Around Injuries?


#1

So I tweaked my back again back squatting. I tweaked it on Saturday and today I decided to lighten the load by 40lbs and it still got aggravated.

It’s in the left erector side closer to my hip joint. It feels strained and it ruined the rest of my work out besides bench and chest supported rows. Basically did the same thing on Saturday as well.

How should I go about working around this? I obviously won’t be able to DL on my next day and I can give OHP a try. I’m supposed to FS on Wednesday and I’m gonna give that a go as well.

How can I work around not back squatting/deadlifts/maybe FS?

If I can FS without pain, I’d do that to replace it in the mean time. I also have access to a trap bar and figure I might do that, bb hip thrusts, and maybe hyper-extensions for my back just to keep it active.

Any advice would be appreciated.


Today's Article: "Lifters Over 30 Need to Get Real" is Pretty Silly
#2

If you thought you’d be ok to squat, it can’t have been a major injury so I would just take a week off from squatting and deadlifting and focus more on overhead work.


#3

Can you do good mornings?


#4

After getting it fixed/ letting it fix itself, I think you should upload a video of your squat. If its a reoccurring injury it could be a result of your squat pattern. I think there’s enough people on here that if that’s the case we can find your problem.


#5

I think for this week I’ll keep the load REALLY light just to let it heal up.

I tried doing a GM yesterday and I still felt that strain. It hurt too much.

I will upload this Friday/Saturday of me doing squats to see if maybe I am doing something off. Thanks guys!


#6

I wouldn’t do a lot of overhead stuff if you’ve hurt your back. Bad back most likely means a weak core, and a weak core means you’ll hyperextend your back doing overhead stuff.


#7

This is not uncommon from what I’m seeing in the gym. I’m getting more and more convinced that beginners should be starting on bodypart splits utilizing a moderate to higher rep range to build a base of muscle and tendon strength while developing body awareness before doing these lo rep high frequency per bodypart programs.


Today's Article: "Lifters Over 30 Need to Get Real" is Pretty Silly
#8

[quote]dt79 wrote:
This is not uncommon from what I’m seeing in the gym. I’m getting more and more convinced that beginners should be starting on bodypart splits utilizing a moderate to higher rep range to build a base of muscle and tendon strength while developing body awareness before doing these lo rep high frequency per bodypart programs. [/quote]

I’m coming around to your way of thinking too. These programs that emphasise the “big” lifts are fucking people up I think because people without the mobility to squat, deadlift or overhead press properly are building strength on top of dysfunction and fucking themselves up in the long run


#9

[quote]dt79 wrote:
This is not uncommon from what I’m seeing in the gym. I’m getting more and more convinced that beginners should be starting on bodypart splits utilizing a moderate to higher rep range to build a base of muscle and tendon strength while developing body awareness before doing these lo rep high frequency per bodypart programs. [/quote]

Or (which is something Pwnisher has recommended time and again) they should play sports, run and do calisthenics for a few months before touching a weight. Alwyn Cosgrowe once said that no one who is unable to do 40 pushups has a reason to bench - what would be the equivalent for squats?

Isdatnutty, one option would be to spend a week doing active recovery - something like back squats with nothing but the bar for one set of 50. Get plenty of blood into the area.


#10

[quote]nighthawkz wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:
This is not uncommon from what I’m seeing in the gym. I’m getting more and more convinced that beginners should be starting on bodypart splits utilizing a moderate to higher rep range to build a base of muscle and tendon strength while developing body awareness before doing these lo rep high frequency per bodypart programs. [/quote]

Or (which is something Pwnisher has recommended time and again) they should play sports, run and do calisthenics for a few months before touching a weight. Alwyn Cosgrowe once said that no one who is unable to do 40 pushups has a reason to bench - what would be the equivalent for squats?
.[/quote]

I think a combination of the two would be ideal honestly. Play sports first, develop all of those qualities, perform calisthenics, and then start with a lifting program like what dt79 mentioned. In reality, that’s EXACTLY how I came into the lifting world, until I found out I was “wrong” and spend years spinning my wheels training the “right” way.


#11

[quote]isdatnutty wrote:
So I tweaked my back again back squatting. I tweaked it on Saturday and today I decided to lighten the load by 40lbs and it still got aggravated.

It’s in the left erector side closer to my hip joint. It feels strained and it ruined the rest of my work out besides bench and chest supported rows. Basically did the same thing on Saturday as well.[/quote]

This sounds like SI joint pain, which seems to pop up around here every once in awhile.

If that’s what it is, rest seems to be the only thing that makes it actually go away until you reaggravate it. A lacrosse ball (or tennis ball if you can’t do a lacrosse ball yet) to the glutes/piriformis (refer to Joe DeFranco’s Agile 8 video for technique) can help relieve things some.

Also try using some lighter, higher rep unilateral work for the hips, e.g., split squats, or lunges. See if that helps at all.

It may not. And you may be describing something else.

I have a hunch that a lack of unilateral work and/or [loaded] conditioning work is one of the culprits, at least when combined with a mostly sedentary lifestyle. Stuff like sprints, carries, rucking; those are all about producing force and balance one leg at a time. Of course, so is stuff like working construction, doing landscaping, working at a lumber yard, and so on.

EDIT:

  1. Sports too.

  2. It was his Limber 11 video where he demonstrates. Around 5:30.


#12

Wendler seems to be doing something similar with the young athletes he’s coaching nowadays. He has talked a lot about handling bodyweight work/conditioning before hitting hard in the big barbell stuff.


#13

[quote]nighthawkz wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:
This is not uncommon from what I’m seeing in the gym. I’m getting more and more convinced that beginners should be starting on bodypart splits utilizing a moderate to higher rep range to build a base of muscle and tendon strength while developing body awareness before doing these lo rep high frequency per bodypart programs. [/quote]

Or (which is something Pwnisher has recommended time and again) they should play sports, run and do calisthenics for a few months before touching a weight. Alwyn Cosgrowe once said that no one who is unable to do 40 pushups has a reason to bench - what would be the equivalent for squats?

Isdatnutty, one option would be to spend a week doing active recovery - something like back squats with nothing but the bar for one set of 50. Get plenty of blood into the area.[/quote]
I don’t think playing sports alone can replace developing mmc and building muscle and tendons with weights. Playing sports before starting with a bodypart split would excellent.

That statement from Cosgrowe is ridiculous if it wasn’t made within a specific context.


#14

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:
This is not uncommon from what I’m seeing in the gym. I’m getting more and more convinced that beginners should be starting on bodypart splits utilizing a moderate to higher rep range to build a base of muscle and tendon strength while developing body awareness before doing these lo rep high frequency per bodypart programs. [/quote]

I’m coming around to your way of thinking too. These programs that emphasise the “big” lifts are fucking people up I think because people without the mobility to squat, deadlift or overhead press properly are building strength on top of dysfunction and fucking themselves up in the long run[/quote]
There are 155lb 19 year old “powerlifters” in my gym with constant shoulder and lower back pain who spend half their workouts foam rolling. They’re not even putting up “intermediate” numbers. Fuck, I’m nearly twice their age lifting much heavier and I don’t even need to spend more than 10mins warming up. There’s obviously something very wrong going on and it’s certainly not genetics.


#15

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]nighthawkz wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:
This is not uncommon from what I’m seeing in the gym. I’m getting more and more convinced that beginners should be starting on bodypart splits utilizing a moderate to higher rep range to build a base of muscle and tendon strength while developing body awareness before doing these lo rep high frequency per bodypart programs. [/quote]

Or (which is something Pwnisher has recommended time and again) they should play sports, run and do calisthenics for a few months before touching a weight. Alwyn Cosgrowe once said that no one who is unable to do 40 pushups has a reason to bench - what would be the equivalent for squats?
.[/quote]

I think a combination of the two would be ideal honestly. Play sports first, develop all of those qualities, perform calisthenics, and then start with a lifting program like what dt79 mentioned. In reality, that’s EXACTLY how I came into the lifting world, until I found out I was “wrong” and spend years spinning my wheels training the “right” way.
[/quote]
Same here. Kids were more active back then.
Edit

Never did any calistenics though. I was still weaker than most girls lol.


#16

I blame the internet. Kids and anyone starting out it getting bombarded with information. Ex. Foam roll before you lift, do your mobility before squatting then another site saying NO! save your foam rolling for afterwards. So we have this beginner going into the gym confused as hell but he knows that he definitely needs to squat because its the king of all exercises and foam roll at somepoint in his routine.

Unfortunately he doesn’t know how to squat, he has crappy mobility and flopping around on a foam roller isn’t going to fix it. He squats incorrectly for a number of weeks, his numbers go up because he is still getting stronger although not ideally because of a poor movement pattern. Then somewhere down the road he hits that magic number that his poor form/mobility can’t counteract and blows his back out. Back to the foam roller and repeat.


#17

As a beginner myself I agree with a lot of the points you guys are making.

So I can only speak for myself.

I play sports. I play basketball, flag football, box, and bboy (break dance) once in a while. I would say I’m naturally athletic meaning I have good body control, awareness, hand eye coordination, movement when I’m out on the field/court. I have good agility but I’m not explosive.

In terms of body weight exercises I can do a decent amount of all of them. Chin ups, pull ups, dips, push ups, leg raises, hand stand push ups, etc. I can also do handstands and kip ups and all those sorta things as well.

What I do know is I’m weak overall and I’m tight in certain places that need consistent mobility work. I do have more of a sedentary lifestyle day in and day out. I have a desk job that I end up sitting a lot.

Here are my stats:

5’6
165 lbs (18-25% bf)

Back Squat 3x5 - 185lbs
Front Squat 3x5 - 155lbs
Bench Press 3x5 - 165lbs
Overhead Press 3x5 - 120lbs
Weighted Dips 3x5 - 35lbs
Deadlift 3x5 - 265lbs
Pendlay Row 5x5 - 140lbs
Chin Ups - 10

So where do I go from here? I am without a doubt still a beginner. I want to keep pushing with my programming and not changes things if I don’t have to.

My general workout day goes like this:

10 Min - Run or Jump Rope or Tumbling
20 Min - Limber 11 + Upper Body Stretches
10 Box Jumps or Squat Jumps to wake everything up
1.5 Hours - Squat/Press/Pulls/Abs/Another Pull
3 Min - Hang from a pull up bar
10 Min - Hot Tub

I’m going to back squat with a lighter weight like 135lbs on Friday or Saturday and post a video to make sure my squat pattern looks fine. I’m starting to believe it’s from my abs/glutes not firing correctly.


#18

Do more quad work and make sure you are engaging your hip flexors at the bottom.

Get a belt and learn how to create real blood vessel popping abdominal pressure.


#19

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:
This is not uncommon from what I’m seeing in the gym. I’m getting more and more convinced that beginners should be starting on bodypart splits utilizing a moderate to higher rep range to build a base of muscle and tendon strength while developing body awareness before doing these lo rep high frequency per bodypart programs. [/quote]

I’m coming around to your way of thinking too. These programs that emphasise the “big” lifts are fucking people up I think because people without the mobility to squat, deadlift or overhead press properly are building strength on top of dysfunction and fucking themselves up in the long run[/quote]
There are 155lb 19 year old “powerlifters” in my gym with constant shoulder and lower back pain who spend half their workouts foam rolling. They’re not even putting up “intermediate” numbers. Fuck, I’m nearly twice their age lifting much heavier and I don’t even need to spend more than 10mins warming up. There’s obviously something very wrong going on and it’s certainly not genetics.[/quote]

yeah I know exactly what you mean.

Thing is, the intentions are good. Mastering the basic lifts is a fair enough pursuit for someone starting out, but the problem I see with all these “beginner” programs like SS, madcow, etc., is there’s just no option to regress any of the movements.

I’m sure we’ve all seen a LOT of fucked up squat movement patterns in our time. Some people are just nowhere near being able to do the lift properly, and some never will (I sure as hell am never going to back squat or deadlift again), but these programs don’t consider it at all.


#20

[quote]isdatnutty wrote:
As a beginner myself I agree with a lot of the points you guys are making.

So I can only speak for myself.

I play sports. I play basketball, flag football, box, and bboy (break dance) once in a while. I would say I’m naturally athletic meaning I have good body control, awareness, hand eye coordination, movement when I’m out on the field/court. I have good agility but I’m not explosive.

In terms of body weight exercises I can do a decent amount of all of them. Chin ups, pull ups, dips, push ups, leg raises, hand stand push ups, etc. I can also do handstands and kip ups and all those sorta things as well.

What I do know is I’m weak overall and I’m tight in certain places that need consistent mobility work. I do have more of a sedentary lifestyle day in and day out. I have a desk job that I end up sitting a lot.

Here are my stats:

5’6
165 lbs (18-25% bf)

Back Squat 3x5 - 185lbs
Front Squat 3x5 - 155lbs
Bench Press 3x5 - 165lbs
Overhead Press 3x5 - 120lbs
Weighted Dips 3x5 - 35lbs
Deadlift 3x5 - 265lbs
Pendlay Row 5x5 - 140lbs
Chin Ups - 10

So where do I go from here? I am without a doubt still a beginner. I want to keep pushing with my programming and not changes things if I don’t have to.

My general workout day goes like this:

10 Min - Run or Jump Rope or Tumbling
20 Min - Limber 11 + Upper Body Stretches
10 Box Jumps or Squat Jumps to wake everything up
1.5 Hours - Squat/Press/Pulls/Abs/Another Pull
3 Min - Hang from a pull up bar
10 Min - Hot Tub

I’m going to back squat with a lighter weight like 135lbs on Friday or Saturday and post a video to make sure my squat pattern looks fine. I’m starting to believe it’s from my abs/glutes not firing correctly.

[/quote]

see the fact that your front squat is only 30lbs lighter than your back squat makes me think it’s a more natural movement for you