T Nation

Women Joining the Ranks of Specials Ops


#1

Good idea? Will entrance requirements become more lax? Will new roles be created just so women can play a part? Is this just more political correctness fall out?


#2

I’m sure they’ll have to pass the same training that the men do.

So… good luck I guess.


#3

= political correctness


#4

[quote]csulli wrote:
I’m sure they’ll have to pass the same training that the men do.

So… good luck I guess.[/quote]

HAHAHAH, no they wont.


#5

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:
I’m sure they’ll have to pass the same training that the men do.

So… good luck I guess.[/quote]

HAHAHAH, no they wont. [/quote]
:frowning:


#6

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:
I’m sure they’ll have to pass the same training that the men do.

So… good luck I guess.[/quote]

HAHAHAH, no they wont. [/quote]
:([/quote]

I know, I know…


#7

[quote]Egg Head wrote:

Good idea? Will entrance requirements become more lax? Will new roles be created just so women can play a part? Is this just more political correctness fall out?[/quote]

Well somebody’s gotta cook for them. MRE’s suck.

All kidding aside, the russians found women to be very good snipers. I could see the capacity for that. Close combat, hell no. Close combat has no patience for political correctness.


#8

For those of you who didn’t go through the comments at the end of the article, this one’s worthy of a posting-

"In yet another PC move to bring equalization to the United States military, women from all services have been asked to volunteer for a new surgical procedure, the implantation of a prostate gland. According to a Pentagon spokeswoman the prevailing attitude is, “If women are going to be given the privilege/responsibility of a greater chance of dying for their country it’s only “fair” that they should be allowed to contract a disease that heretofore has been the venue of men only.”

Here’s the fallacy of the situation with a couple comments from the article above:

“But I was given a great partner to work with, another woman, who was on her third combat deployment and I had a great time,” said Brammer, 33, who today lives in New York City. "She was such a bad-ass â?? someone I thought I could either trust to save my life, or get me into real trouble. I thought, if she’s scared, I’ll be scared. I never saw her scared.

“I had a great time???” “I never saw her scared???”

Here’s a clue for all you future G.I. Janes (this includes the moronic senator from N.Y.), as someone who saw REAL combat with other males I’m pretty sure I can say, without qualification, at no time did I or anyone else think we HAD A GREAT TIME! Nor would I say that during any of that REAL combat that I WAS NEVER SCARED!

Like a lot of adrenaline soaked, gung ho eighteen-year-olds I couldn’t wait to get into the sh_t. That lasted about a week until a mortar blew off half of a friends face. I immediately knew I wasn’t going to have a “great time” and I immediately got scared. The woman’s statement is a f___ing joke.

Train em up, send them in on point, let a few of them see their fellow amazons get spread over the landscape and them take a poll on how many are having a great time without fear. The woman above, and I suspect all of those that think like her, don’t have a clue.

As an aside, it boggles the mind that given the current uproar regarding sexual assault in the military (are you listening Senator Gillibrand) that the woman leading the charge (again, Senator Gillibrand) is pushing to put her sisters in a position of higher danger - both of dying and sexual assault, all for the sake advancement in the military.

Give me a break."


#9

http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/article/get-over-it-we-are-not-all-created-equal

"As a company grade 1302 combat engineer officer with 5 years of active service and two combat deployments, one to Iraq and the other to Afghanistan, I was able to participate in and lead numerous combat operations… "

“…As a young lieutenant, I fit the mold of a female who would have had a shot at completing IOC, and I am sure there was a time in my life where I would have volunteered to be an infantryman. I was a star ice hockey player at Bowdoin College, a small elite college in Maine, with a major in government and law. At 5 feet 3 inches I was squatting 200 pounds and benching 145 pounds when I graduated in 2007. I completed Officer Candidates School (OCS) ranked 4 of 52 candidates, graduated 48 of 261 from TBS, and finished second at MOS school…”

“…By the fifth month into the deployment, I had muscle atrophy in my thighs that was causing me to constantly trip and my legs to buckle with the slightest grade change. My agility during firefights and mobility on and off vehicles and perimeter walls was seriously hindering my response time and overall capability. It was evident that stress and muscular deterioration was affecting everyone regardless of gender; however, the rate of my deterioration was noticeably faster than that of male Marines and further compounded by gender-specific medical conditions. At the end of the 7-month deployment, and the construction of 18 PBs later, I had lost 17 pounds and was diagnosed with polycystic ovarian syndrome (which personally resulted in infertility, but is not a genetic trend in my family), which was brought on by the chemical and physical changes endured during deployment…”

“… I can say with 100 percent assurance that despite my accomplishments, there is no way I could endure the physical demands of the infantrymen whom I worked beside as their combat load and constant deployment cycle would leave me facing medical separation long before the option of retirement. I understand that everyone is affected differently; however, I am confident that should the Marine Corps attempt to fully integrate women into the infantry, we as an institution are going to experience a colossal increase in crippling and career-ending medical conditions for females…”


#10

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/article/get-over-it-we-are-not-all-created-equal

"As a company grade 1302 combat engineer officer with 5 years of active service and two combat deployments, one to Iraq and the other to Afghanistan, I was able to participate in and lead numerous combat operations… "

“…As a young lieutenant, I fit the mold of a female who would have had a shot at completing IOC, and I am sure there was a time in my life where I would have volunteered to be an infantryman. I was a star ice hockey player at Bowdoin College, a small elite college in Maine, with a major in government and law. At 5 feet 3 inches I was squatting 200 pounds and benching 145 pounds when I graduated in 2007. I completed Officer Candidates School (OCS) ranked 4 of 52 candidates, graduated 48 of 261 from TBS, and finished second at MOS school…”

“…By the fifth month into the deployment, I had muscle atrophy in my thighs that was causing me to constantly trip and my legs to buckle with the slightest grade change. My agility during firefights and mobility on and off vehicles and perimeter walls was seriously hindering my response time and overall capability. It was evident that stress and muscular deterioration was affecting everyone regardless of gender; however, the rate of my deterioration was noticeably faster than that of male Marines and further compounded by gender-specific medical conditions. At the end of the 7-month deployment, and the construction of 18 PBs later, I had lost 17 pounds and was diagnosed with polycystic ovarian syndrome (which personally resulted in infertility, but is not a genetic trend in my family), which was brought on by the chemical and physical changes endured during deployment…”

“… I can say with 100 percent assurance that despite my accomplishments, there is no way I could endure the physical demands of the infantrymen whom I worked beside as their combat load and constant deployment cycle would leave me facing medical separation long before the option of retirement. I understand that everyone is affected differently; however, I am confident that should the Marine Corps attempt to fully integrate women into the infantry, we as an institution are going to experience a colossal increase in crippling and career-ending medical conditions for females…”

[/quote]

So… Men and Women are different, and it is blatantly obvious that the two sexes are better suited for differing roles that are equal in importance and actually make us stronger as a whole because we aren’t trying to fit a square peg in a round hole to appease some bullshit social construct that does nothing but make us less efficient and weaker?

Go figure…


#11

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/article/get-over-it-we-are-not-all-created-equal

"As a company grade 1302 combat engineer officer with 5 years of active service and two combat deployments, one to Iraq and the other to Afghanistan, I was able to participate in and lead numerous combat operations… "

“…As a young lieutenant, I fit the mold of a female who would have had a shot at completing IOC, and I am sure there was a time in my life where I would have volunteered to be an infantryman. I was a star ice hockey player at Bowdoin College, a small elite college in Maine, with a major in government and law. At 5 feet 3 inches I was squatting 200 pounds and benching 145 pounds when I graduated in 2007. I completed Officer Candidates School (OCS) ranked 4 of 52 candidates, graduated 48 of 261 from TBS, and finished second at MOS school…”

“…By the fifth month into the deployment, I had muscle atrophy in my thighs that was causing me to constantly trip and my legs to buckle with the slightest grade change. My agility during firefights and mobility on and off vehicles and perimeter walls was seriously hindering my response time and overall capability. It was evident that stress and muscular deterioration was affecting everyone regardless of gender; however, the rate of my deterioration was noticeably faster than that of male Marines and further compounded by gender-specific medical conditions. At the end of the 7-month deployment, and the construction of 18 PBs later, I had lost 17 pounds and was diagnosed with polycystic ovarian syndrome (which personally resulted in infertility, but is not a genetic trend in my family), which was brought on by the chemical and physical changes endured during deployment…”

“… I can say with 100 percent assurance that despite my accomplishments, there is no way I could endure the physical demands of the infantrymen whom I worked beside as their combat load and constant deployment cycle would leave me facing medical separation long before the option of retirement. I understand that everyone is affected differently; however, I am confident that should the Marine Corps attempt to fully integrate women into the infantry, we as an institution are going to experience a colossal increase in crippling and career-ending medical conditions for females…”

[/quote]

So… Men and Women are different, and it is blatantly obvious that the two sexes are better suited for differing roles that are equal in importance and actually make us stronger as a whole because we aren’t trying to fit a square peg in a round hole to appease some bullshit social construct that does nothing but make us less efficient and weaker?

Go figure…[/quote]

Ya, shocking I know.


#12

Just to be clear, what I’m getting at, isn’t there a logistical position (or some such) that this woman could have filled that wouldn’t put her in a position to physically break down like that, that would have provided invaluable support to the other service people who’s body could handle the grueling physical demands, and still had her in a “combat zone” so she wouldn’t be passed over for promotions/pay/respect that comes with that situation?


#13

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Just to be clear, what I’m getting at, isn’t there a logistical position (or some such) that this woman could have filled that wouldn’t put her in a position to physically break down like that, that would have provided invaluable support to the other service people who’s body could handle the grueling physical demands, and still had her in a “combat zone” so she wouldn’t be passed over for promotions/pay/respect that comes with that situation?[/quote]

No, not really. It’s the military not the girl scouts.

This is probably going to come off as a bit of a rant:

This is exactly why women shouldn’t be in the military at all. They can’t physically handle the stresses of combat (men don’t handle it that well either, but better), which keeps them from being promoted past a certain level.

Quite frankly, when I was in, I got so tired of hearing about. “Women aren’t treated equal, promotions arenâ??t fair…” To bad that’s total BS. Undeserving women are pushed through the ranks far more than undeserving men because it’s the PC thing to do. Plus they have less competition among their ranks. On top of that their physical standards (at least in the USMC) are different. Christ they have to flex arm hang from a pull-up bar. That is how the USMC tests their upper body strength…

What politicians love to forget is this isn’t the private sector. Lives are often at stake. Some 128 lbs female Marine might be tough as nails, but if I get shot she isn’t dragging my 200lbs anywhere. Whose gonna carry her extra gear/ammo? What about her feminine hygiene needs? Pregnancy? etc…

Better to just make it men only and I don’t give a fuck if that’s sexist or not.


#14

Obviously a woman is going to be a liability in almost any situation involving physical exertion.

My issue with women serving on “front line” situations is the reaction of the men when the women get shot up. It’s hard enough dealing with male soldiers getting fucked up, but i cant even imagine having it be a woman.


#15

[quote]Aggv wrote:
Obviously a woman is going to be a liability in almost any situation involving physical exertion.

My issue with women serving on “front line” situations is the reaction of the men when the women get shot up. It’s hard enough dealing with male soldiers getting fucked up, but i cant even imagine having it be a woman.[/quote]

Ya, especially since no amount of fraternization rules are going to keep these folks from falling all over each other.

“Hey suzie looks like me and you are sharing a fox hole”
“Oh what’s that your a little cold”
“Well here let me just put my dick in you. That should wamn you right up”


#16

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:
I’m sure they’ll have to pass the same training that the men do.

So… good luck I guess.[/quote]

HAHAHAH, no they wont. [/quote]

“Further, the strenuous physical standards required for entry into special-forces jobs and combat-infantry assignments will not be lowered for anyone, they say.”


#17

Terrible fucking idea. The soldiers I am friends with, including a couple SF boys…hell including the WOMEN I know in the forces think it’s bullshit.

That should tell you something…but it will be lost on the lawmakers


#18

Obviously none of you guys watch the movie “GI JANE”. All these woman have to say is suck my STICK and these guys will follow them anywhere. They covered all of you guys concerns in that one movie.

/sarcasim.

What a crappy movie that was.


#19

Nothing but politics and no the standards will not be the same for everyone. So happy I’m getting out.


#20

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Terrible fucking idea. The soldiers I am friends with, including a couple SF boys…hell including the WOMEN I know in the forces think it’s bullshit.

That should tell you something…but it will be lost on the lawmakers[/quote]

SO you’re telling me people who’s 3 most important goals in life are the votes coming in the next election, the seats their party holds through getting more votes, and the money they are paid to garner those votes, don’t actually care about the people casting those votes, but rather how their votes are cast?

Go figure.