The dirtbag Democrats fled the state to avoid the vote. Warrants for their arrest should be issued. Fucking cowards.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
The dirtbag Democrats fled the state to avoid the vote. Warrants for their arrest should be issued. Fucking cowards.[/quote]
They learned from the Texas Democrats a few years back - they all took off to avoid votes on redistricting after the last (2000) census.
From what is being reported on the news, as long as they bill is on the table, Dems will have to vote on it at some point.
The coward Dems were located, at a Best Western, in Illinois !
http://nation.foxnews.com/politics/2011/02/17/awol-wisconsin-dems-found-hotelin-illinois
[quote]concrete wrote:
[quote]malonetd wrote:
I don’t necessarily think bargaining rights should be stripped, but then again, fuck unions.[/quote]
I’ve come across a number of anti- union threads on this forum. The only thing interesting about them is most of the posts are in the middle of the work day. I must be in the wrong union.[/quote]
Non-union here.
I post whenever I want. Why? Because I can. You see, I worked for state government for 5 years to the day. The union forced a ‘fair share’ law that compelled the state to take money out of my paycheck to pay for collective bargaining that amounted to hundreds of dollars per year out of my paycheck. MUCH more than the collective bargaining fees totaled (if you totalled up all state workers etc) and had no accounting to back it up (lawsuit pending).
I quit, went back into the private sector, negotiated my own salary and benefits and doubled my salary. Plus I get to work from home or where/whenever I want.
Yes-- you are in the wrong union.
I don’t have a problem with private unions.
Public sector unions should be illegal. Of course most services provided by public sector unions should be privatized. I am amazed that there are so many that still think otherwise.
[quote]Big Banana wrote:
Public sector unions should be illegal. Of course most services provided by public sector unions should be privatized. I am amazed that there are so many that still think otherwise.[/quote]
When less then 50% of the population picks up a large majority of the tab for most of it, it kind of makes sense.
Almost half the population is getting these services basically for free, why would they want to give that up.
[quote]apbt55 wrote:
[quote]Big Banana wrote:
Public sector unions should be illegal. Of course most services provided by public sector unions should be privatized. I am amazed that there are so many that still think otherwise.[/quote]
When less then 50% of the population picks up a large majority of the tab for most of it, it kind of makes sense.
Almost half the population is getting these services basically for free, why would they want to give that up. [/quote]
Feeding at the trough of public money.
Saw this, if anyone wants to send support to Wisconsin’s governor and senators in this trying time:
Support Wisconsin: Trumka storms Madison tomorrow; Walker supporters to rally Saturday; a disgusted teacher calls out unions
"Like many of you, I am watching in shock as â??union thugsâ?? try to intimidate the Wisconsin Legislators. The Left is using all the resources they can to stop the much needed budget cuts. If you thought we were going to take our country back without a fight, you were wrong. It is rumored that protesters were actually paid by the AFL-CIO and our â??friendsâ?? from the SEIU who brought in organizers and protesters.
In response to these protests., I have started a Facebook Page at: www.StandWithWI.com
In case you want to cheer on the Wisconsin legislature who are fighting the teachers unions, here on the governorsâ?? and legislature email addressesâ?¦.maybe you could pass them on. Just send them a â??Good Job keep up the good work!â??
Tell Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker that we are behind him!
Office of Governor Scott Walker
115 East Capitol
Madison WI 53702
govgeneral@wisconsin.gov
608-266-1212
The nineteen state senators who are standing fast on principle are below. Drop a note and thank them for their patriotic stand.
Sen.Ellis@legis.wisconsin.gov
Sen.Darling@legis.wisconsin.gov
Sen.Cowles@legis.wisconsin.gov
Sen.Fitzgerald@legis.wisconsin.gov
Sen.Galloway@legis.wisconsin.gov
Sen.Grothman@legis.wisconsin.gov
Sen.Harsdorf@legis.wisconsin.gov
Sen.Hopper@legis.wisconsin.gov
Sen.Kapanke@legis.wisconsin.gov
Sen.Kedzie@legis.wisconsin.gov
Sen.Lasee@legis.wisconsin.gov
Sen.Lazich@legis.wisconsin.gov
Sen.Leibham@legis.wisconsin.gov
Sen.Moulton@legis.wisconsin.gov
Sen.Olsen@legis.wisconsin.gov
Sen.Schultz@legis.wisconsin.gov
Sen.Vukmir@legis.wisconsin.gov
Sen.Wanggaard@legis.wisconsin.gov
Sen.Zipperer@legis.wisconsin.gov
"
Are any of you aware that Scott Walker (governor of Wisconsin) inherited a surplus when he came into office, and the only reason why there is now a deficit is because he spent $140 Million on special interest projects? Now he wants to take away people’s rights to negotiate their contracts collectively. Does no one see a problem with that?
If your boss spent an extra $140 dollars out of the company’s budget at the casino and then wanted to cut your pay to balance the business budget, wouldn’t you be a little ticked off about it?
I don’t understand how some of you can rail on about government spending, and then turn around and get mad at people for being angry about…too much government spending (and then asking them to pay more money to make up for the problem).!? If you are truly fiscally conservative in your views, then at least be consistent.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Are any of you aware that Scott Walker (governor of Wisconsin) inherited a surplus when he came into office, and the only reason why there is now a deficit is because he spent $140 Million on special interest projects? Now he wants to take away people’s rights to negotiate their contracts collectively. Does no one see a problem with that?
If your boss spent an extra $140 dollars out of the company’s budget at the casino and then wanted to cut your pay to balance the business budget, wouldn’t you be a little ticked off about it?
I don’t understand how some of you can rail on about government spending, and then turn around and get mad at people for being angry about…too much government spending (and then asking them to pay more money to make up for the problem).!? If you are truly fiscally conservative in your views, then at least be consistent.[/quote]
Are there any credible news accounts of the $ 140 million in spending? These look like left “progressive” rags so I am suspect.
Isn’t the deficit larger than the $ 140 million in spending? Something doesn’t add up.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Are any of you aware that Scott Walker (governor of Wisconsin) inherited a surplus when he came into office, and the only reason why there is now a deficit is because he spent $140 Million on special interest projects? Now he wants to take away people’s rights to negotiate their contracts collectively. Does no one see a problem with that?
If your boss spent an extra $140 dollars out of the company’s budget at the casino and then wanted to cut your pay to balance the business budget, wouldn’t you be a little ticked off about it?
I don’t understand how some of you can rail on about government spending, and then turn around and get mad at people for being angry about…too much government spending (and then asking them to pay more money to make up for the problem).!? If you are truly fiscally conservative in your views, then at least be consistent.[/quote]
lol at “right” to negotiate collectively. What about the right not to join an union? What about the right to negotiate personally with your employer?
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Are any of you aware that Scott Walker (governor of Wisconsin) inherited a surplus when he came into office, and the only reason why there is now a deficit is because he spent $140 Million on special interest projects? Now he wants to take away people’s rights to negotiate their contracts collectively. Does no one see a problem with that?
If your boss spent an extra $140 dollars out of the company’s budget at the casino and then wanted to cut your pay to balance the business budget, wouldn’t you be a little ticked off about it?
I don’t understand how some of you can rail on about government spending, and then turn around and get mad at people for being angry about…too much government spending (and then asking them to pay more money to make up for the problem).!? If you are truly fiscally conservative in your views, then at least be consistent.[/quote]
Public Education is a joke, defending it is absurd. The Unions have proven time and time again that they could give a shit about education. You won’t find many on this board who want tax money spent on special interests so knock it off.
Sento,
I hear you man, but WI has a $3 BILLION deficit, and you want to yell about $140 million? I agree that if that money is in fact spent on some bullshit, then it should be addressed. But you are talking ridiculously unfunded pension liabilities, they would still be paying LESS THAN HALF what the private sector pays. The average government worker makes $89k/year (which includes pension, benefits, etc.) Average private sector worker makes $61k/year. The pension/benefit package for gov’t workers is nearly 3 times better than that of the private sector and pay a shit ton less into it. And consider this, who pays for these pension/bennies? Taxpayers. And it is a wonder why this shit would go under so quickly.
Is Obama flirting with disaster by coming out condemning what is going in Wisconsin?
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Sento,
I hear you man, but WI has a $3 BILLION deficit, and you want to yell about $140 million? I agree that if that money is in fact spent on some bullshit, then it should be addressed. But you are talking ridiculously unfunded pension liabilities, they would still be paying LESS THAN HALF what the private sector pays. The average government worker makes $89k/year (which includes pension, benefits, etc.) Average private sector worker makes $61k/year. The pension/benefit package for gov’t workers is nearly 3 times better than that of the private sector and pay a shit ton less into it. And consider this, who pays for these pension/bennies? Taxpayers. And it is a wonder why this shit would go under so quickly.[/quote]
I do not disagree that there needs to be some movement when it comes to pensions and people’s expectations. (That said, I think upping the retirement age up is a no brainer yet look at the political tracking that it getting.)
I am not going to argue your numbers, those what I have seen have been when compared at the job level (so job in govt verse same job in private) the govt job paid less with better benefits but worked out about the same as in private sector in overall cost. Those studies were site specific. Looking at it on the macro level might be misleading in come cases, though probably not all.
If you could clarify for me something, when you said that the ave govt worker makes $89k, do you mean take home, or rather, costs $89k once the cost of pension, insurance, etc. when included? If cost, then the $89k is closer to about $40k take home salary.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Is Obama flirting with disaster by coming out condemning what is going in Wisconsin? [/quote]
I would say yes, given the anti-union climate.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Sento,
I hear you man, but WI has a $3 BILLION deficit, and you want to yell about $140 million? I agree that if that money is in fact spent on some bullshit, then it should be addressed. But you are talking ridiculously unfunded pension liabilities, they would still be paying LESS THAN HALF what the private sector pays. The average government worker makes $89k/year (which includes pension, benefits, etc.) Average private sector worker makes $61k/year. The pension/benefit package for gov’t workers is nearly 3 times better than that of the private sector and pay a shit ton less into it. And consider this, who pays for these pension/bennies? Taxpayers. And it is a wonder why this shit would go under so quickly.[/quote]
I’m not arguing that people should get a free ride or that in tough financial times that certain sacrifices don’t need to be made.
I just don’t think that taking away peoples’ rights to negotiate their contracts collectively (and let’s be realistic, there is much more chance of negotiating collectively than individually; think insurance pools). Especially on the basis that the governor overspent and now wants the working people of the commonwealth to take up the slack.
Nor do I still understand why people here who are usually against government overspending and asking the people to take up the slack seem to be taking the completely opposite position in this case (not directed at anyone specifically, but you know who you are)? All I’m saying is that if you have certain ideological beliefs, stick by them (regardless of who the parties involved are).
And where are you getting the $3 Billion deficit from? Walker has only been the governor of Wisconsin since January of this year, and like one of the above quoted websites points out, all indications pointed to the state’s budget being balanced (actually it was predicted to be in a surplus by the end of June 2011) prior to Walker taking office. I highly doubt that anyone, no matter how incompetent could spend $3 Billion dollars (plus the surplus) over budget (in a state setting anyhow) in just under 3 months.
The Bill in the Wisconsin legislature seeks to make up the $137 million dollar deficit which Walker claims to have. Not a $3 Billion dollar deficit.
You are right that some public sector workers make more on average than their private sector counterparts (teachers for example). But they are also in many cases more qualified teachers (most states have very stringent criteria that teachers must meet in order to be qualified to teach in their public schools, while private schools do not have to adhere to these criteria). Don’t you think that a more qualified worker deserves better pay?
I can hear what you are saying about the pensions (something that used to be comparable in the private sector but admittedly no longer is in most cases), but that is something that should be negotiated on between the state the the employees. Don’t you think?
The $3 Billion deficit is the upcoming 2-year deficit, not the current deficit.
As far as the governor spending the money, you are referring to the former Democratic governor who was elected by the unions, to further their pension/benefit packages. The was a “you scratch my back, I scratch yours” kind of mentality.
The problem is that when the economy took a dump, the unions didn’t scale anything back as far as what they got. The private sector had to adjust, but not the public sector. No public worker lay-offs, none at all. You have to commit murder (I am not kidding) to lay-off a public worker. The unions’ solution to everything is further tax taxpayers, but no one can afford it anymore.
If you think this is bad, wait til this shit hits California. Our state Republicans will not put a tax increase or extension on the ballot. Our governor has to make cuts, $29 Billion in cuts, it’s gonna be crackin’ up in Crapifornia soon.
I don’t really understand why public-sector employees should be allowed to unionize anyway. ProfessorBainbridge.com