Wingspan of a 747 with Thickness to Boot

A perfectly sculpted back can make you look THAT much more impressive from just about any angle. Wide, thick, separated. Would you like to view what a Legendary back looks like? Take a look a Franco Columbu’s. His was one of the most impressive backs in bodybuilding in my eyes, especially for his time. Thick, Wide, clear separation between Lats, traps, infraspinatus, teres Major (i believe its the major…), with a bulging lower back accentuated by his tiny waist.

What are the judges looking for when they view the back? 1. Thickness and muscularity of the UPPER back; 2. The sweep and width of the lats; and 3. the definition and development of the lower back and lats.

So looking at the upper back to begin with; Well, if you are like i was not too long ago, then you dont realize the importance of the upper back. You think Lats are lats, and thats that. Well, that’s not quite that. One major thing i see daily is the negligence of one’s traps. Guess what, the traps bring it all together- Large, protruding muscles from the back of your skull that extend outwards and down, reaching damn near the middle of the back. Hearing that, does that make you think that 3 relatively easy sets of some DB shrugs where you are INGENIOUSLY Grinding your shoulders in their socket are going to be enough (Yes i had to be mean about the shoulder grind. Its Dumb, i hate it, i hate you for doing it). Now some of the exercises that are going to help with your overall Trap development are going to be some of the very same exercises you use for the rest of your upper back thickness, so we can save some of those for a bit later on; however, i will say You probably need to take traps a bit more seriously. I personally like to always throw in a round of Barbell shrugs where i essentially end on a 500lb 12-15 rep shrug. WHy? Because, traps are stubborn, they are stupid, and they need to be beaten for not doing my dishes. Hit them hard! Throw in straps if you have to, do the shrugs in a Squat rack so you can pause after a couple reps or so, but the main point is you need to PUSH them. Give them a reason to grow.

The rest of the upper back- As i said earlier, early on in my training, there was Lat pulldowns, some Cable rows basically to the waist, and maybe a BB row if i felt like it. Well, you guessed it, that isnt enough, especially since i wasnt really targeting upper back very well. Yes, my back got wide, but as a consequence of my earlier days, my upper back is now playing catchup. This problem can be rectified through an adjustment of angle by even a few degrees. Do the BB rows, DO the Cable rows, but if you put a bit more focus on bringing the bar to your mid-high chest, you will get a LOT more Upper work, helping your traps and rear delts develop that thickness, and getting muscles you probably didnt know you had to start pulling their own weight. Now, like i said i am playing catchup with my upper back, so my back routines focus more on the upper these days, with higher BB rows (parallel row), high cable rows, and others, but this may not necessarily be the case for YOU.

For lats, well, you can do what was mentioned above, just change the angle. If you want to really hit your lat width, do BB rows not so parallel to the floor while pulling the weight more to your waist. Another MOvement i feel is dying out these days is Pullups. These are seriously underrated, but if i honestly had to make a list of top 3 best Back movements, Pullups would be in there. “BUT AKUMA, im SO FUCKING STRONG, Pullups with my 180lb body are too easy and i can do like 10 reps!” Inc my Foot into your ass. 1. You dont weigh a lot, eat more, 2. 10 reps isnt a ridiculous amount and is perfectly acceptable even in moderate to high weight training, 3. BUY A DIP BELT. I use mine for pullups, Chest dips, and tricep dips. You think you’re badass now, but when you slap on a 45, and then try to do your pullups, it knocks you down a peg. Seriously, i do 350lb pullups/dips. That puts hair ON the hair on your chest. 1 Arm Dumbbells are also great for lat development. The reason i normally exclude these in my training is probably why a lot of bigger guys dont do them, weight caps. Unfortunately, my Dbs cop out at 140, and i know many others dont even get that, so i feel i outgrew the Db rows in my particular gym. Now, that isnt to say that i wont do them, i have actually experimented with Supersetting Lat Pulldowns (another easily outgrowable movement) with Db rows, and lemme tell you…Pain.
One of my absolute FAVORITE back exercises however, has to be a HS isolateral Row machine. You get a Fantastic ROM and a great stretch in the lat. I generally dont get too heavy, depending on how i feel i stop bumping around 4 or 5 plates per side, but my main goal is Pinching, I am sure i include a lot of Dorian into this movement. The Bars come all the way back and i fiercely pinch my lats, feeling everything from my traps to the bottom of my back flare, then at an agonizingly slow speed i release the pinch and return to the beginning of the movement. This literally shreds my back and is an overall fantastic movement, achievable by any level of back. Id also like to comment on 1 handed cable rows. Now, yea i laughed when i tried these too ( i mainly jumped on them because of machine availability and i just wanted to finish and leave). Let me tell you, if you look up ‘Fantastic Stretch in the Lats’ in the dictionary, youll see a picture of me doing these while giving you a thumbs up. Bend your knees, bend at your waist, tilt your body slightly to the side to ensure full stretch, and come out a little away from the machine to ensure your weight doesnt hit the stack of weight even when you are at 110% (Shut up, its possible) stretch.

Lower back- Do i really need to do this one? Deadlift or Rack pulls. Moving on…

SO, you want to develop a fine tuned back with width, density, thickness, and separation? Attack it right. Hit your upper back, hit your lats, hit your lower back. Hit them from different angels, use variations. Feel it out, bring a journal (You should be doing this already). Make an effort to comment on where what hits you more depending on what you do. Figure out YOUR body.

So, to recap, because i feel i probably hopped around a bit- Pullups, Hs isolateral rows, BB rows done to the angle you see fit. These are Probably 3 of my favorite back movements, and id take a bet that most dont do 2 out of those 3.

BODYBUILDING is the art form of the gods; you are an artist, you are sculpting.

Any suggestions on other upper back movements. Early in my training I neglected my upper back and am now playing catch up as well. I can not seem to ever hit it good enough, BB rows to mid chest are out, they really feel weird (lower back) and my gym has no hs chest supported rows.

I love how you write so well and put everything so clear…wicked.

Barbell rows FTW! : )

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
Any suggestions on other upper back movements. Early in my training I neglected my upper back and am now playing catch up as well. I can not seem to ever hit it good enough, BB rows to mid chest are out, they really feel weird (lower back) and my gym has no hs chest supported rows.[/quote]

You could try Lat pulldowns. Lean back a good amount and bring the bar to your upper chest.

Or as i said above, regular 2handed Cable rows, bringing the bar up higher. You can perform the same movement and just adjustment where youre bringing it to and change how it feels.

[quote]Akuma01 wrote:

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
Any suggestions on other upper back movements. Early in my training I neglected my upper back and am now playing catch up as well. I can not seem to ever hit it good enough, BB rows to mid chest are out, they really feel weird (lower back) and my gym has no hs chest supported rows.[/quote]

You could try Lat pulldowns. Lean back a good amount and bring the bar to your upper chest.

Or as i said above, regular 2handed Cable rows, bringing the bar up higher. You can perform the same movement and just adjustment where youre bringing it to and change how it feels.[/quote]
Would you do the lat pull down under hand?

is this also going to turn into a back picture thread?

Akuma you’re like the Edgar Allen Poe of T Nation threads… So poetic :slight_smile:

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:

[quote]Akuma01 wrote:

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
Any suggestions on other upper back movements. Early in my training I neglected my upper back and am now playing catch up as well. I can not seem to ever hit it good enough, BB rows to mid chest are out, they really feel weird (lower back) and my gym has no hs chest supported rows.[/quote]

You could try Lat pulldowns. Lean back a good amount and bring the bar to your upper chest.

Or as i said above, regular 2handed Cable rows, bringing the bar up higher. You can perform the same movement and just adjustment where youre bringing it to and change how it feels.[/quote]
Would you do the lat pull down under hand?[/quote]

Never. I dont do any of MY back movements with an underhand grip, Simply because of my fear of throwing Biceps into the mix. Its Back and shouulders day, not Back, shoulders, and Biceps. if a muscle isnt in a day’s work, that muscle will not be worked. I see people doing pullups with an underhand grip, they normally look like some mutant Curl, pullup baby breed, then proceed to brag about how strong their back is. I chuckle and go about my business. If you do Back and Bis on the same day, by all means, try it with an underhand grip, but go by how it feels, Not how many you can do.

[quote]gregron wrote:
is this also going to turn into a back picture thread?

Akuma you’re like the Edgar Allen Poe of T Nation threads… So poetic :)[/quote]

Lol ive revealed my actual artistic writing to these forums once before, and was met with only Flung feces. So that wont be happening again. And pictures will have to wait until later on, there is still the matter of discussion. This thread is no where near absolute. It doesnt give you EVERY back answer or right and wrongs ways to everything, hell, its basically a paper of opinion.

Look up “pendlay rows” on youtube, great upper back exercise. If it hurts your lower back, either sink your hips lower, arch tighter and wear a belt or…wipe the sand out of your vagina.

And yah, pullups, BB rows and an underhand pulldown movement are the money makers for me. Can’t have a back routine without pullups and BB rows IMO.

One thing I also think is important is that people form seriously sucks on every back exercise, every single fucking one, especially pulldowns. This is not a movement that begins by you generating momentum with your lower back and then using it to tug a too heavy weight to within 6 inches of your chest. I suggest keeping the torso completely neutral, arch the back hard and pull from the elbows. I repeat, DO NOT MOVE YOUR TORSO FROM THE NEUTRAL POSITION! Your weights will drop and your back will grow. Worry about cheating when you become more advanced and know what you are doing.

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
Look up “pendlay rows” on youtube, great upper back exercise. If it hurts your lower back, either sink your hips lower, arch tighter and wear a belt or…wipe the sand out of your vagina.

And yah, pullups, BB rows and an underhand pulldown movement are the money makers for me. Can’t have a back routine without pullups and BB rows IMO.

One thing I also think is important is that people form seriously sucks on every back exercise, every single fucking one, especially pulldowns. This is not a movement that begins by you generating momentum with your lower back and then using it to tug a too heavy weight to within 6 inches of your chest. I suggest keeping the torso completely neutral, arch the back hard and pull from the elbows. I repeat, DO NOT MOVE YOUR TORSO FROM THE NEUTRAL POSITION! Your weights will drop and your back will grow. Worry about cheating when you become more advanced and know what you are doing.[/quote]

Lol so true, most people’s form suck period. Thats why i try to make it a point to drill into people’s heads Now that your weight doesnt matter, its how it feels. When you start substituting weight for form, you lose. When you begin moving your lower back while performing exercises is when you start injuring things.

Cheating in movements is definitely a bit more advanced and not something beginners should try to utilize just yet.

any suggestions as regards ROM in pull ups? are partials (as a finisher/to continue the set) of any help? specifically asking about cutting back on the lower half of the movement to get a good pump. thanks.

[quote]vajra wrote:
any suggestions as regards ROM in pull ups? are partials (as a finisher/to continue the set) of any help? specifically asking about cutting back on the lower half of the movement to get a good pump. thanks. [/quote]

Eh id say keep Rom on pullups full. Partials can have their positives, but personally id think it a waste to use them on Pullups. I mean any movement performed for high reps is gonna give you a good pump, why not just do full Pullups, then hop on a lat pulldown for partials.

I’ve done all of that over the years and then some. I think that’s a solid back overview Akuma.

When I was first training I did endless lat pulldowns & seated cable rows (two great exercises)but graduated to T-bar rows, BB rows, DB rows, DL and I loved the Hammer Strength back machines. I used to train at Golds in Merrick and they had all the HS gear. I remember trying out HS for the first time at Bev’s in Syosset. I agree the isolateral row is awesome!

But these days I’m training in my home gym exclusively, so it’s a steady diet of Barbell rows, supported dumbbell rows, BB and DB shrugs, deadlifts and inverted rows in my power rack…

I use a combination of rep ranges (low & high) but I respond best to heavy duty style maximal weight, lower rep sets, but I follow the same standard ramping as every other body part, throwing in some rest/pause and drop sets. Work my way up in weight to the max work set and then strip it down to pump out more reps, but I use drop sets sparingly. And yea - gotta squeeze at the top of the movement to really nail all the fibers.

Like you said - you want a complete back, with width as well as thickness, you gotta hit it from every angle.

So, where are all the back pics?

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:

One thing I also think is important is that people form seriously sucks on every back exercise, every single fucking one, especially pulldowns. This is not a movement that begins by you generating momentum with your lower back and then using it to tug a too heavy weight to within 6 inches of your chest. I suggest keeping the torso completely neutral, arch the back hard and pull from the elbows. I repeat, DO NOT MOVE YOUR TORSO FROM THE NEUTRAL POSITION! Your weights will drop and your back will grow. Worry about cheating when you become more advanced and know what you are doing.[/quote]

This is funny, because recently I had the same epiphany… I’ve been cleaning up my form on TBars and Pulldowns of sorts.

TBars I’ll do the first 3-4 sets nice and strict, and the heavier 3 or so with some English.

With pulldowns (close grip) I’ll do one day strict form and higher volume, and the second day heavy as I can with teh shit form you talked about.

Seems to be working pretty well, lol.

I will say I’m fucking HEATED I didn’t start with close grip pulldowns a long ass time ago. They are amazing.

[quote]Akuma01 wrote:

[quote]vajra wrote:
any suggestions as regards ROM in pull ups? are partials (as a finisher/to continue the set) of any help? specifically asking about cutting back on the lower half of the movement to get a good pump. thanks. [/quote]

Eh id say keep Rom on pullups full. Partials can have their positives, but personally id think it a waste to use them on Pullups. I mean any movement performed for high reps is gonna give you a good pump, why not just do full Pullups, then hop on a lat pulldown for partials.[/quote]

yep.i get your point Akuma. thanks.

I installed a pull up bar on my bedroom door frame, every time i walk past the room, do 5-10 reps. My back strength has sky rocketed and the wings are defo starting to flare. You can’t go wrong with pull ups! I also find seated close grip rows hit my back really well.

Akuma i’m your writing is really fuckin cool, normally when i see a wall of text i dont bother reading, but with you i know i’m guna get some good info and it’l keep me entertained!

Does hand placement in the pullup matter. I cant do underhanded or regular pullups but I can knock out 20 neutral grip pullups no problem. But not sure if I feel it in my lats. I agree with Waylander about underhand pulldowns i got those after watching a video of evan centopani and man that stretch is ridiculous. I try not to flex my arms at all while doing these. Any one else think close underhand grip is superior to any other grip for back width?

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
So, where are all the back pics?[/quote]

Lol…there’s a couple in my profile. YOU should put up a few with that 535 lb dead… : )