T Nation

Window of Opportunity Pre & Post WO

Question regarding pre and post workout nutrition and supplementation.
Im currently bulking and looking to put on more mass. Have been gaining well around 1-2lb a month, recently progress begun stagnating. How much carbs and protein is to much to digest during pre/post workout feeds.

Currently
45 min Pre workout- 40g protein 70g carb feed (Chicken+Rice)
20 min Pre workout- Whey Shake + Creatine
During Workout- 1ltr Gatorade =60g carbs
Immediately Post workout- 1ltr Gatorade=60g carbs
45min Post workout- 40g protein 70g carb feed

Can I add more carbs to these feeds or do they need to be spread throughout the other meals. I aim for :
300g carb on medium days, 400g carb on high days

Can you have your 45min post workout right after you workout? Your body is primed for eating after lifting and you’re just giving it some Gatorade. Chocolate milk would even be better than that.

[quote]VIRTUS_FIRMITAS wrote:
How much carbs and protein is to much to digest during pre/post workout feeds.[/quote]
“Too much” really kinda depends on what types of protein and carbs you’re having. If we’re talking whole foods like chicken and rice compared to liquid nutrition like Anaconda and MAG-10, it’s harder to have “too much” of the latter combo.

If you look at the Anaconda Protocol 1, it’s providing 120g carbs and 167g of protein and aminos from 20 minutes pre-workout to about 10 minutes post-workout.


That’s not “too much” because they’re specific nutrients in specific amounts to serve a certain purpose.

The Double Dose Surge Challenge from a few years ago was similar.


One-half serving of Surge pre-workout, one-half serving during-workout, and one full serving immediately post-workout. That’s a big dose, not “too much,” of the right protein and carbs at the right times.

[quote]Currently
45 min Pre workout- 40g protein 70g carb feed (Chicken+Rice)
20 min Pre workout- Whey Shake + Creatine
During Workout- 1ltr Gatorade =60g carbs
Immediately Post workout- 1ltr Gatorade=60g carbs
45min Post workout- 40g protein 70g carb feed

Can I add more carbs to these feeds or do they need to be spread throughout the other meals.[/quote]
There’s more to peri-workout nutrition than just carbs; You need to supply plenty of the right protein and aminos. You’re giving your body some protein before training and a little protein quite a while after, but none at the most important time. I’d definitely add some quality protein to the during-workout shake, and consider moving the “45-min PWO” shake to immediately PWO.

Have protein during the workout and/or IMMEDIATELY after. Those carbs immediately after dont need to be there if you dont want. Whole food carbs in the meal after a workout works fine for most people

On my last exercise for the workout I consume a second whey shake. I use to consume one whey shake 30min pre workout. A second shake during the workout. Then a third immediately post workout. These shakes also contain Branch Chain Amino Acids (8917mg per serve)and 7g Glutamine. One problem ive always had was when to consume the pre workout meal and how much time to leave between that meal and beginning of training.

Should the 45 min post workout feed be moved forward to 10-20min or immediately PW?
Do these feeds need to be more or less in overall nutrients?

[quote]VIRTUS_FIRMITAS wrote:
On my last exercise for the workout I consume a second whey shake.[/quote]
As The Wedding Singer might say… this is something that could’ve been brought to my attention yesterday!

Still, you might want to nurse the shake over the entire workout, instead of waiting until you’re almost done training to have it.

How’d that seem to work for you? What made you switch to your current carb-focused plan?

All protein shakes contain BCAAs and glutamine. Additional glutamine has little benefit to strength training.

Depends on whats in the meal and how well you know your own system. I don’t like much solid food in my stomach before training, so I’d leave an hour or hour and a half myself (FINiBARs are the exception). You could be different and might be able to tolerate more food sooner.

If you’re talking about a solid meal, keep it around 45 minutes later. If it’s a shake, down it immediately after, and then have a solid meal later on. Realize that it’s not so much about tweaking one particular aspect, but coordinating your daily food intake with your pre, during, and post-wo nutrition.

Depends on your current height and weight, what you’re eating during the day, and how you’re training.

I eat 8 meals a day

6am-MEAL1:P C F
8am-MEAL2:P F
10am-MEAL3:P F
12pm-MEAL4:P F
2pm-MEAL5:P F
4pm-MEAL6 PRE WORKOUT:P C
4:40pm-PRE WORKOUT: SHAKE CREATINE
5pm WORKOUT-Gatorade
6pm-Immediate Post workout: SHAKE GATORADE
6:45pm MEAL7:POST WORKOUT P C
9:30pm MEAL8:P F

P= Protein 40g F= FATS 10-15g C= Carbs 50g
Overall intake
Protein:310 Carbs:340 Fats:70 Calories 3700-3900

I aim to consume the majority of my carb intake pre post workout.
AIM: to continue to bulk to 195-200lbs
Currently 185lb at height 5’10

[quote]VIRTUS_FIRMITAS wrote:
I eat 8 meals a day

6am-MEAL1:P C F
8am-MEAL2:P F
10am-MEAL3:P F
12pm-MEAL4:P F
2pm-MEAL5:P F
4pm-MEAL6 PRE WORKOUT:P C
4:40pm-PRE WORKOUT: SHAKE CREATINE
5pm WORKOUT-Gatorade
6pm-Immediate Post workout: SHAKE GATORADE
6:45pm MEAL7:POST WORKOUT P C
9:30pm MEAL8:P F

P= Protein 40g F= FATS 10-15g C= Carbs 50g
Overall intake
Protein:310 Carbs:340 Fats:70 Calories 3700-3900

I aim to consume the majority of my carb intake pre post workout.
AIM: to continue to bulk to 195-200lbs
Currently 185lb at height 5’10[/quote]

How did you come up with that calorie count? I just did a quick calculation for you based on the 310/340/70 you just gave us:

P: 1240 cal
C: 1360 cal
F: 630 cal

Total: ~3200 cal. That’s a 500-700 calorie deficit from what you thought you were intaking depending on which extreme of that range you aim at.

The fat feeds contain vary from 100-150cal per server overall = 750cal Fats
Protein feeds are genrally 200-250cal per serve I consume plus the 150cal shakes= I consume 1500cal Protein
The Carb feeds pre and post workout are 70g= I consume 1600cal Carbohydrates

Thats for a Medium intake day

High days = 4100cal
Medium = 3600-3800cal
Low = 2600-2800cal

I leave 100-200 calories free for changes to the normal (extra sauce or fruit

[/quote]
There’s more to peri-workout nutrition than just carbs; You need to supply plenty of the right protein and aminos. You’re giving your body some protein before training and a little protein quite a while after, but none at the most important time. I’d definitely add some quality protein to the during-workout shake, and consider moving the “45-min PWO” shake to immediately PWO.
[/quote]

Understood. What would be recommended, Anaconda protocol is out of the question. Surely there are other supplementation I can use during pre-peri-post workout. The inclusion of an amino acid supplement be efficient? Substituting the current pre-peri-post wokrout shakes with a carb dense variation and tossing the gatorade?
Suggestions

[quote]VIRTUS_FIRMITAS wrote:
[/quote]
There’s more to peri-workout nutrition than just carbs; You need to supply plenty of the right protein and aminos. You’re giving your body some protein before training and a little protein quite a while after, but none at the most important time. I’d definitely add some quality protein to the during-workout shake, and consider moving the “45-min PWO” shake to immediately PWO.
[/quote]

Understood. What would be recommended, Anaconda protocol is out of the question. Surely there are other supplementation I can use during pre-peri-post workout. The inclusion of an amino acid supplement be efficient? Substituting the current pre-peri-post wokrout shakes with a carb dense variation and tossing the gatorade?
Suggestions
[/quote]

If Anaconda alone is too much, go with MAG-10.

There’s no rule that you have to use the entire Anaconda Protocol.

Personally, I’ve been going with Surge Workout Fuel and MAG-10 lately since I’ve been training outside with more conditioning work.

Neither product is available in my location. I keep with products available locally in AU.
From what I understand im buying the most efficient and highest quality protein and pre-post workout supplements available in our stores.

MAG-10, Anaconda, and Surge Workout Fuel are available in Australia.