T Nation

Windfall Profits Tax??

Exactly how would a windfall profits tax lower the per gallon price of gasoline?

(Amazing how humans must always have a scapegoat. Sad, actually.)

HH

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Exactly how would a windfall profits tax lower the per gallon price of gasoline?

(Amazing how humans must always have a scapegoat. Sad, actually.)[/quote]

It would allow the state and federal taxes on gas to be lowered without increasing the deficit, thereby reducing the consumer price of gas.

[quote]hspder wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Exactly how would a windfall profits tax lower the per gallon price of gasoline?

(Amazing how humans must always have a scapegoat. Sad, actually.)

It would allow the state and federal taxes on gas to be lowered without increasing the deficit, thereby reducing the consumer price of gas.
[/quote]

State and federal taxes on gas being lowered.
I needed a laugh on Friday. Thanks, man.

[quote]doogie wrote:
State and federal taxes on gas being lowered.
I needed a laugh on Friday. Thanks, man.[/quote]

That’s what any true Social Democrat like me would do if in power – shift the tax burden from the consumer to the oil companies, because the latter clearly can afford it while the former can’t.

Classic wealth redistribution.

Maybe I should run. Wouldn’t you vote for me if I did and promised lower state and federal taxes on gas?

[quote]hspder wrote:
That’s what any true Social Democrat like me would do if in power – shift the tax burden from the consumer to the oil companies, because the latter clearly can afford it while the former can’t.
[/quote]

Perhaps… and putting aside whether or not that would be a good thing… the people currently in power would NOT do this.

Instead, they’d take money from the oil companies and continue to take money at the pump, and leave the rest of us to shoulder the burden.

Unfortunately, we have to deal with the scum as they are, rather than as the Legislators they might have been.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Exactly how would a windfall profits tax lower the per gallon price of gasoline?

(Amazing how humans must always have a scapegoat. Sad, actually.)

HH[/quote]

It wouldn’t. But you still have to wonder about the $10 BILLION PROFIT Exxon-Mobil made in the past quarter (or was it the 1st quarter of the year, I forget, but still, $10bil profit in 3 months).

[quote]nephorm wrote:
Perhaps… and putting aside whether or not that would be a good thing… the people currently in power would NOT do this.

Instead, they’d take money from the oil companies and continue to take money at the pump, and leave the rest of us to shoulder the burden.

Unfortunately, we have to deal with the scum as they are, rather than as the Legislators they might have been.[/quote]

You’ll get no argument from me on that one… :wink:

what about people who (middle class) who invest in oil companies in their 401ks or 403bs? What would hurt them the most in the long run, an extra buck a gallon or a windfall profits tax on their retirement fund?

[quote]doogie wrote:
what about people who (middle class) who invest in oil companies in their 401ks or 403bs? What would hurt them the most in the long run, an extra buck a gallon or a windfall profits tax on their retirement fund?[/quote]

It probably wouldn’t hurt them, since the oil companies would raise their prices to compensate for the loss of profit. Unless, of course, lawmakers also restricted what they were allowed to charge for the product.

[quote]nephorm wrote:
doogie wrote:
what about people who (middle class) who invest in oil companies in their 401ks or 403bs? What would hurt them the most in the long run, an extra buck a gallon or a windfall profits tax on their retirement fund?

It probably wouldn’t hurt them, since the oil companies would raise their prices to compensate for the loss of profit. Unless, of course, lawmakers also restricted what they were allowed to charge for the product.[/quote]

First of all, you’re assuming somebody is dumb enough to have any specific industry as a large part of a retirement portfolio. Second, you’re assuming they cannot reallocate their investments.

If those two assumptions are true, it’s a pretty sucky 401(k), so the best idea either way would be to change brokers and find a decent one – and rollover the 401(k).

I continue to find fascinating how when the subject of taxes gets mentioned it seems most people suddenly throw any rational thought and even common sense out the door – especially the fact that it’s even worse than religion and other areas of politics in that respect.

Reminds me of that experience where you put electric dog collars on people and then zap them at 10-second intervals with non-paralyzing increasing levels of pain – they scream and protest and shout vulgarities and ask for us to make it stop as we increase the pain, but they never, for a moment, realize that they can simply take the dog collar off in between zaps. They don’t even try. If they did, they would realize that it comes off just by touching it.

Fascinating.

[quote]hspder wrote:
nephorm wrote:
doogie wrote:
what about people who (middle class) who invest in oil companies in their 401ks or 403bs? What would hurt them the most in the long run, an extra buck a gallon or a windfall profits tax on their retirement fund?

It probably wouldn’t hurt them, since the oil companies would raise their prices to compensate for the loss of profit. Unless, of course, lawmakers also restricted what they were allowed to charge for the product.

First of all, you’re assuming somebody is dumb enough to have any specific industry as a large part of a retirement portfolio. Second, you’re assuming they cannot reallocate their investments.

If those two assumptions are true, it’s a pretty sucky 401(k), so the best idea either way would be to change brokers and find a decent one – and rollover the 401(k).

I continue to find fascinating how when the subject of taxes gets mentioned it seems most people suddenly throw any rational thought and even common sense out the door – especially the fact that it’s even worse than religion and other areas of politics in that respect.

Reminds me of that experience where you put electric dog collars on people and then zap them at 10-second intervals with non-paralyzing increasing levels of pain – they scream and protest and shout vulgarities and ask for us to make it stop as we increase the pain, but they never, for a moment, realize that they can simply take the dog collar off in between zaps. They don’t even try. If they did, they would realize that it comes off just by touching it.

Fascinating.
[/quote]

Well that’s nice, but wouldn’t oil companies just raise their prices to compensate like Nephorm wrote? Wouldn’t that make this whole thing pointless?

[quote]grew7 wrote:
Well that’s nice, but wouldn’t oil companies just raise their prices to compensate like Nephorm wrote? Wouldn’t that make this whole thing pointless?[/quote]

Nephorm also wrote:

Bingo!

I didn’t even think of that. Sorry.

[quote]hspder wrote:
grew7 wrote:
Well that’s nice, but wouldn’t oil companies just raise their prices to compensate like Nephorm wrote? Wouldn’t that make this whole thing pointless?

Nephorm also wrote:

Unless, of course, lawmakers also restricted what they were allowed to charge for the product.

Bingo![/quote]

Yes, let’s introduce price controls and profit controls. This will encourage oil companies to hunt for more oil.

Let’s also put controls in place about how much gasoline each person is alloted per month. In fact, let’s control EVERYTHING, telling each person exactly what to do all the time and in every way!! Let’s put televisions in every room of every house that WORK BOTH WAYS, so people can be watched and controlled.

HH

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
hspder wrote:
grew7 wrote:
Well that’s nice, but wouldn’t oil companies just raise their prices to compensate like Nephorm wrote? Wouldn’t that make this whole thing pointless?

Nephorm also wrote:

Unless, of course, lawmakers also restricted what they were allowed to charge for the product.

Bingo!

Yes, let’s introduce price controls and profit controls. This will encourage oil companies to hunt for more oil.

Let’s also put controls in place about how much gasoline each person is alloted per month. In fact, let’s control EVERYTHING, telling each person exactly what to do all the time and in every way!! Let’s put televisions in every room of every house that WORK BOTH WAYS, so people can be watched and controlled.

HH[/quote]

In the past year, the price of gasoline has risen 30%.

In the past year, the profits of the five biggest oil companies have risen
30%.

Fuck them. Fuck them making money off my back by gouging me and people like me for a necessity and then blaming it on hurricanes and war.

These people are thieves just as a mugger is. The only difference is they get stooges like you to defend them.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
hspder wrote:
grew7 wrote:
Well that’s nice, but wouldn’t oil companies just raise their prices to compensate like Nephorm wrote? Wouldn’t that make this whole thing pointless?

Nephorm also wrote:

Unless, of course, lawmakers also restricted what they were allowed to charge for the product.

Bingo!

Yes, let’s introduce price controls and profit controls. This will encourage oil companies to hunt for more oil.

Let’s also put controls in place about how much gasoline each person is alloted per month. In fact, let’s control EVERYTHING, telling each person exactly what to do all the time and in every way!! Let’s put televisions in every room of every house that WORK BOTH WAYS, so people can be watched and controlled.

HH[/quote]

In the past year, the price of gasoline has risen 30%.

In the past year, the profits of the five biggest oil companies have risen
30%.

Fuck them. Fuck them making money off my back by gouging me and people like me for a necessity and then blaming it on hurricanes and war.

These people are thieves just as a mugger is. The only difference is they get stooges like you to defend them.

[quote]hspder wrote:
Unless, of course, lawmakers also restricted what they were allowed to charge for the product.
[/quote]

Bad idea. Bad bad bad idea!! Government should have no place in setting prices. I think we tried that back in the 70’s and it was a dismal failure.

Government should govern - not tinker with business.

My God - where was all the bitching about Big Oil when they were sucking air and gas was a buck a gallon?

And the bureaucrats are even more fickle than the posters on this thread.

[quote]harris447 wrote:
Fuck them. Fuck them making money off my back by gouging me and people like me for a necessity and then blaming it on hurricanes and war.

These people are thieves just as a mugger is. The only difference is they get stooges like you to defend them.
[/quote]

I have an uncle that went from making around 2K per month from the oil wells on his ranch before to pocketing over 120K per month now.

He is not involved with the oil industry in any way other than he owns land with oil underneath it.

I have a client that is experiencing the same good fortune.

The escalation of oil prices has now made it profitable for domestic exploration. There are new businesses going in all the time just 80 miles from here that are a direct result of oil prices going up.

The Midland/Odessa area of Texas is on fire economically and it is totally atrributable to the evil oil business.

I could go on.

So who’s the crook, again?

Are you saying it’s a bad, evil, criminal act to create this many jobs?

I guess “selfish” is a relative term.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
harris447 wrote:
Fuck them. Fuck them making money off my back by gouging me and people like me for a necessity and then blaming it on hurricanes and war.

These people are thieves just as a mugger is. The only difference is they get stooges like you to defend them.

I have an uncle that went from making around 2K per month from the oil wells on his ranch before to pocketing over 120K per month now.

He is not involved with the oil industry in any way other than he owns land with oil underneath it.

I have a client that is experiencing the same good fortune.

The escalation of oil prices has now made it profitable for domestic exploration. There are new businesses going in all the time just 80 miles from here that are a direct result of oil prices going up.

The Midland/Odessa area of Texas is on fire economically and it is totally atrributable to the evil oil business.

I could go on.

So who’s the crook, again?

Are you saying it’s a bad, evil, criminal act to create this many jobs?

I guess “selfish” is a relative term. [/quote]

Yes, it is.

Favoring a couple of thousand people in Texas over the entire nation is selfish.

Especially when, in a couple of years, the oil industry pulls up stakes like they have before, and the region is once again fucked.

[quote]harris447 wrote:
rainjack wrote:
harris447 wrote:
Fuck them. Fuck them making money off my back by gouging me and people like me for a necessity and then blaming it on hurricanes and war.

These people are thieves just as a mugger is. The only difference is they get stooges like you to defend them.

I have an uncle that went from making around 2K per month from the oil wells on his ranch before to pocketing over 120K per month now.

He is not involved with the oil industry in any way other than he owns land with oil underneath it.

I have a client that is experiencing the same good fortune.

The escalation of oil prices has now made it profitable for domestic exploration. There are new businesses going in all the time just 80 miles from here that are a direct result of oil prices going up.

The Midland/Odessa area of Texas is on fire economically and it is totally atrributable to the evil oil business.

I could go on.

So who’s the crook, again?

Are you saying it’s a bad, evil, criminal act to create this many jobs?

I guess “selfish” is a relative term.

Yes, it is.

Favoring a couple of thousand people in Texas over the entire nation is selfish.

Especially when, in a couple of years, the oil industry pulls up stakes like they have before, and the region is once again fucked.
[/quote]

Try hundreds of thousands in Texas and the surrounding states, and you might be close.

I think we have learned our lesson from the 80’s: nothing lasts forever.

Besides, if a few hundred thousand yankees have to cough up an extra $1 per gallon to make my part of the country prosper, so much the better.

Do you have any idea how many banjos we can buy, now?