As far as the whole juice debate goes:
Sept 2000 I was 194lbs@~10% Bodyfat.
June 2001 I was 219lbs@~10% Bodyfat.
Sept 2001 I was 235lbs@~12-15% Bodyfat.
No gear whatsoever. I don’t think he necessarily did gear. Don’t forget about the fact that he’s black and his genetics could be superior as a result. the bench poundages are a little unexpected though.
Huck, think of Ali’s physical condition as you criticize his physical shape. He has Parkinson’s disease. My father was diagnosed with Parkinson’s four years ago. His ability to enjoy participatint in athletics and exercise has diminished. I encourage him to exercise more but the debiliating nature of the disease obviously inhibits intense exercise. Ali’s condition is much worse than my fathers. You can make any statements you want-I do not wish to censor you; but my initial reaction after reading your ignorant post was extreme hostility. If a person made such an unintelligent statement as you did, and directed it to me, hostility would transcend from mere emotion to physical action.
he went from 194 to 223 for the movie. that’s a gain of 29lbs. now he’s at 204. i don’t think he juiced.
For the record, Will Smith went from 185-220 in one year under strict training for the role in “Ali.”
Yes Colin, Ali was Obnoxious and Outspoken. But I think Many people would say the same thing about T-mag! In his era most black celebreties had to keep quiet about racial issues to avoid being labeled a troublemaker by the White America. It was only a matter of time before someone came along to smash the slave mentality imposed on Black Americans. Ali was the first black atheletes that I’m aware of to be openly defiant and express his opinion.So I disagree when you say he didn’t change the lives of black men all over the world. His popularity in Africa after all these years is proof of that.
Micheal – I am sorry about your dad. Who wouldn’t be? I do hope that he does as well as possible, and that you get to enjoy his company for years to come. Please bear in mind that I had no way of knowing that you and your dad even exist, much less that you could be offended by my comments. The only way never to offend anybody is to sit in the corner with your mouth shut and never say anything. As for Ali, I was aware that his condition was primarily due to P even before Michelles’s informative reply to my first post on this thread. My point was that he was very unpleasant to Joe F, and Joe, at least as far as I know, did not respond in kind. As time went on, things did not go well for Ali, and did for Frazier. While I do not really beleive in “karma”, and do not attribute Ali’s contraction of P directly to his personality (obviously we are all at risk for many things, regardless of our behavior, and any day could be our last, through no fault of our own) my understanding is that his repeated attempts at comebacks over the years, when he was out of shape, and getting pummelled, may have been a contributing factor. And the comeback attempts were a result of his personality. Or, to put it another way, “What goes around comes around”. As for your other statement about physical action, would you really attack someone for saying something about anyone who has a disease that one of your loved ones has? Even if they don’t know you or your dad? I think not. Again, my best to you and your father, and please accept my apology for any pain I may have caused you, however inadvertently.
BTW, while there are those (including medical professionals) that feel that Ali’s condition with regard to Parkinson’s may have nothing to do with boxing, those that do think that boxing was related generally attribute the problem to the blows he received during fights.
But it really does not follow that it was the blows received in fights that were to blame. My understanding is that Ali received far, far more heavy blows to the head in training than he ever did in fights. He was of the belief that allowing his sparring partners to hit him extremely hard built up his ability to take a punch (which might be supported by the fact that his “chin” was indeed remarkable.)
While some might call this “stupid,” others
might call it pursuit of absolute excellence regardless of personal cost. If he was right
in that belief, then it might indeed have
been a price he had to pay to be the greatest
fighter of his time.
Individuals are responsible for thier own actions. No popular figure is responsible for the mentality of other people. Ali did not discover or show some new idea to the world that black men could not see before, he cured no disease that gave blacks a “slave mentality”, and he founded no new nation to where black men moved to become free in some manner that they were not free in before. He was a fucking boxer. If you live your life without a “slave mentality” because of a trash talking heavyweight champ, you are a mental midget who cannot think for your self. Saying that black men have different (and I’ll assume better) lives today because of Ali means that black men were incapable of solving some problem they had before but can now, becasue of Ali. That is just mushy bullshit, what the hell can blacks do now that they could not do before Ali, and why the hell did Ali make it that way? Causation, not correlation now.
I see nothing wrong with being inspired by someone who has traits you admire. Having Ali as a role model since I was a young boy has inspired me be strong in body and mind and encourage others to do the same. If that’s being a mental midget I hope I don’t get any taller!
Admiring an athlete is your own action. If you feel good about yourself because of Ali, then it is you feeling good about yourself, not Ali, who is responsible for your “slave mentality” or lack thereof.
For the record Jason is exactly right. I heard Will on jay leno say those exact same numbers as jason said. Since you probably read it and i heard it directly from Will i think Jason is right.
Ali is the most overrated and over hyped athlete in the history of sports. He was a great heavyweight boxer and a great self-promoter, but no way is he a world changer or one of the top 3 athletes of the century.
And by the way, why does everyone consider being a 4 or 5 time champion as being superior to a 1 time champion? If a person was so great, they wouldn’t lose the championship to begin with and have to go win it back. This has started to irk me lately with Lewis rejoicing in the fact that he is a 3-time champion.
I think that in the unusual case of being forced out of a sport for a considerable
length of time, and then coming back and
winning the title again after years of
forced inactivity, this is something special.
But as you say, regaining the championship
after having lost a fight that should not have been lost, is no added credential whatsoever (e.g., Ali’s third win, or Lewis’ second and third.)
I mean, c’mon, losing to Leon Spinks? Actually, I figure he did that on purpose… deliberately came in out of shape specifically so as to be able to have his next fight after that be a win against the easy target of Spinks, rather than a fourth fight against Norton.
with no athlete to admire there is no feeling good about yourself whether the feeling good about yourself is from within or without.
Role models are very important and Muhamid made everything seem possible, he was a man we could look up to, and try to emulate. NOt like other athletes that did there job and went home. he stirred things up and gave us hope. Other black athletes came across as serveants for the team owners/managers ali appeared to be incharge and surviving on his own.
Now, what he did may have been very different to how he was percieved and he may be a vastly overated boxer/political activist but the way he made anything seem possible is not overated at least to people of my generation and background. That I can tell you for sure.
That is just demagoguery. Accepting some sort of transendential image because other people do is foolish and ignorant. It is worse than ignorant, it is a self imposed placebo. It is just letting wool being pulled over your eyes.
“with no athlete to admire there is no feeling good about yourself whether the feeling good about yourself is from within or without” how sad. how one can feel good about themself because of what another has done is beyond me. “Role models are very important and Muhamid made everything seem possible, he was a man we could look up to, and try to emulate” ahh, role models. a “role model” should be the guy that lives next door to you thats a cop, fireman, doc.,nurse, teacher, maybe even, just maybe YOUR PARENTS!!! I just have never understood pride in what someone else has done. he became rich (though he blew it all) and famous because he was good at punching people in the head. admire a racist man if you want, I choose not to. oh yeah, he was a racist against people that were DARKER then him. great role model!! If you want to choose an athlete as a role model because of what they did and where they came from maybe you should consider “smoken joe” (the #1 victim of ali’s racisim, again he hated people darker then him)