Will Androgel Help Me?

my test levels are normal…will my natural T production shut down, even if i cycle on and off androgel, using clomid on the off weeks?

[quote]gdm wrote:
I just received the results back today from my most recent blood test:

Total Testosterone: 322
Free: 7 on a reference scale of 8 - 24 (I think)

I’m 37 and have been feeling terrible for years now. I start the Androgel this week so I’ll keep you updated on my results.

Frankly, with those numbers I’m not even motivated to work out at this time knowing that my levels are so low. My gains in the gym are virtually nonexistent no matter what I eat or what I do. What compelled me more than anything is that I have a family now and I don’t want to be the dad that is glued to the couch. I do wish that that I took care of this years ago.

Best wishes to all. [/quote]

Hello - can you share what your symptoms
are ? It sounds like you are looking at T replacement as a way of improving your overall feelings of health, rather than just for results in the gym, which is my situation as well. I have felt tired,
foggy, and sort of constantly hungover
for a long time now and just started Androgel. My #s were similar to yours.
I’m hoping for the energy and mood boost
that some people have reported.

best to all -

[quote]PV Wolf wrote:
gdm wrote:
I just received the results back today from my most recent blood test:

Total Testosterone: 322
Free: 7 on a reference scale of 8 - 24 (I think)

I’m 37 and have been feeling terrible for years now. I start the Androgel this week so I’ll keep you updated on my results.

Frankly, with those numbers I’m not even motivated to work out at this time knowing that my levels are so low. My gains in the gym are virtually nonexistent no matter what I eat or what I do. What compelled me more than anything is that I have a family now and I don’t want to be the dad that is glued to the couch. I do wish that that I took care of this years ago.

Best wishes to all.

Hello - can you share what your symptoms
are ? It sounds like you are looking at T replacement as a way of improving your overall feelings of health, rather than just for results in the gym, which is my situation as well. I have felt tired,
foggy, and sort of constantly hungover
for a long time now and just started Androgel. My #s were similar to yours.
I’m hoping for the energy and mood boost
that some people have reported.

best to all -

[/quote]

PV Wolf,

My symptoms are what you’d expect from someone with Low T: apathy, lethargy, not sleeping well, inability to concentrate (I like your “foggy” description). I call it a paralyzing funk.

I was actually diagnosed with clinical depression several years ago at which time my T levels were not quite as bad bad but the antidepressant route didn’t work for me. In restrospect, I should have pursued the HRT route more aggressively.

I have been able to maintain muscle mass relatively well but my strength levels have been on a steady decline.
I’m 6 feet, 235 pounds at around 13 -15% bodyfat right now and have never used any gear. I know that TC has mentioned that he has noticed a trend among weightlifting types to have lower resting T levels (I believe I’m quoting him accurately). TC, how about an article on this topic if not already covered at some point?

You are right, my main goal in doing this is not physique enhancement but to hopefully alleviate the previously mentioned symptoms.

I’ll report back soon and let you know how the Androgel is working. Keep me posted on your progress as well. I am very optimistic.

Regards,
gdm

Yes - I too was diagnosed as depressed. The AD meds just made me feel much worse so after trying many of the herbal remedies, I find myself hoping that low testosterone is the problem and Androgel
is the answer. I have been on 5g of the gel for 5 days and no noticeable change yet. I have always believed that if I could just start to feel better physically with a little more energy, the mood stuff would follow. I will keep you posted.

best to all-

[quote]PV Wolf wrote:
Yes - I too was diagnosed as depressed. The AD meds just made me feel much worse so after trying many of the herbal remedies, I find myself hoping that low testosterone is the problem and Androgel
is the answer. I have been on 5g of the gel for 5 days and no noticeable change yet. I have always believed that if I could just start to feel better physically with a little more energy, the mood stuff would follow. I will keep you posted.

[/quote]

did you get your t levels checked? what were they?

[quote]pearson wrote:
PV Wolf wrote:
Yes - I too was diagnosed as depressed. The AD meds just made me feel much worse so after trying many of the herbal remedies, I find myself hoping that low testosterone is the problem and Androgel
is the answer. I have been on 5g of the gel for 5 days and no noticeable change yet. I have always believed that if I could just start to feel better physically with a little more energy, the mood stuff would follow. I will keep you posted.

did you get your t levels checked? what were they?
[/quote]

total was 234 - (low)
free was 9.7 (low normal)
I have seen alot of different interpretations of what normal ranges are so who knows…

[quote]PV Wolf wrote:
pearson wrote:
PV Wolf wrote:
Yes - I too was diagnosed as depressed. The AD meds just made me feel much worse so after trying many of the herbal remedies, I find myself hoping that low testosterone is the problem and Androgel
is the answer. I have been on 5g of the gel for 5 days and no noticeable change yet. I have always believed that if I could just start to feel better physically with a little more energy, the mood stuff would follow. I will keep you posted.

did you get your t levels checked? what were they?

total was 234 - (low)
free was 9.7 (low normal)
I have seen alot of different interpretations of what normal ranges are so who knows…
[/quote]

What scale was used? I assume its ng/dl, but how much. Mine is 250 - 940 nanograms/decaliter.

If the gels don’t cut it for you, get the shots. They are really not painful at all. The big muscle on your hip has VERY few pain receptors.

I’m going to have the nurse who shoots me teach me how to self-inject in my thigh (my wife is squemish). If that’s as painless as the butt shot, I’m home free.
HH

Here’s a must-read:

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/89/5/2085

Good luck!

HH

Ok - 2 weeks on 5g of Androgel has done
nothing at all for motivation, energy, mood, libido etc. 2 questions : might raising the dose help and if I stop altogether, will I suffer the withdrawal period even though I am showing no effects of being on it.

thanks for reading

[quote]PV Wolf wrote:
Ok - 2 weeks on 5g of Androgel has done
nothing at all for motivation, energy, mood, libido etc. 2 questions : might raising the dose help and if I stop altogether, will I suffer the withdrawal period even though I am showing no effects of being on it.

thanks for reading[/quote]

PV Wolf,

I’m having the same results as you: no discernible effects at all after almost two weeks on 5g/day. I became desperate a few days ago and bumped it up to 10g/day and I think I’m actually starting to feel worse.

At any rate, at 10gms/day I’ll be done with whatever I have left (including refills) in about 1.5 months. It seems that quite a few people on this board had the same bad results.

I strongly doubt you will feel much in the way of withdrawals if you have noticed no positive benefits so far. That suggests that your T levels have not budged much at all so natural T suppression should not have been stunted to any large degree. That is only my opinion as I obviously don’t have firsthand experience as yet.

Very discouraging so far.

gdm

[quote]PV Wolf wrote:
Ok - 2 weeks on 5g of Androgel has done
nothing at all for motivation, energy, mood, libido etc. 2 questions : might raising the dose help and if I stop altogether, will I suffer the withdrawal period even though I am showing no effects of being on it.

thanks for reading[/quote]

I called Solvay Pharmaceuticals and the pharmacist I spoke to said that it can take up to a couple of months to notice anything.

I recently switched to injections. I was really surprised by how utterly painless the injections are. The nurse lets a drop out, to lube the needle, WHAM, no pain and done. This is with a 21 gauge, btw, NOT a tiny needle.

Read also my latest thread about HRT and the new 10 week protocol.

HH

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
PV Wolf wrote:
Ok - 2 weeks on 5g of Androgel has done
nothing at all for motivation, energy, mood, libido etc. 2 questions : might raising the dose help and if I stop altogether, will I suffer the withdrawal period even though I am showing no effects of being on it.

thanks for reading

I called Solvay Pharmaceuticals and the pharmacist I spoke to said that it can take up to a couple of months to notice anything.

I recently switched to injections. I was really surprised by how utterly painless the injections are. The nurse lets a drop out, to lube the needle, WHAM, no pain and done. This is with a 21 gauge, btw, NOT a tiny needle.

Read also my latest thread about HRT and the new 10 week protocol.

HH

[/quote]
For HH - did you have depression symptoms and did the shots help in that regard ? I will tell you straight up that I am not a weightlifter - I am trying to get my life back and free of
these horrible symptoms of fatigue, sadness and anxiety. I may be putting too much faith in the testosterone angle
but I want it to work because the side effects of the AD meds are often worse than the depression. Any success stories would be welcome.

[quote]gdm wrote:
PV Wolf wrote:
Ok - 2 weeks on 5g of Androgel has done
nothing at all for motivation, energy, mood, libido etc. 2 questions : might raising the dose help and if I stop altogether, will I suffer the withdrawal period even though I am showing no effects of being on it.

thanks for reading

PV Wolf,

I’m having the same results as you: no discernible effects at all after almost two weeks on 5g/day. I became desperate a few days ago and bumped it up to 10g/day and I think I’m actually starting to feel worse.

At any rate, at 10gms/day I’ll be done with whatever I have left (including refills) in about 1.5 months. It seems that quite a few people on this board had the same bad results.

I strongly doubt you will feel much in the way of withdrawals if you have noticed no positive benefits so far. That suggests that your T levels have not budged much at all so natural T suppression should not have been stunted to any large degree. That is only my opinion as I obviously don’t have firsthand experience as yet.

Very discouraging so far.

gdm

[/quote]

yes - I was confused about what to do yesterday so I skipped the day entirely and then found myself this morning considering going up to 10g, I just went with 5 again but I think I may be done
with it. At 2 weeks I should feel at least a little something in the way of improvement. Keep me posted on how you’re doing.

PVW

[quote]PV Wolf wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
PV Wolf wrote:
Ok - 2 weeks on 5g of Androgel has done
nothing at all for motivation, energy, mood, libido etc. 2 questions : might raising the dose help and if I stop altogether, will I suffer the withdrawal period even though I am showing no effects of being on it.

thanks for reading

I called Solvay Pharmaceuticals and the pharmacist I spoke to said that it can take up to a couple of months to notice anything.

I recently switched to injections. I was really surprised by how utterly painless the injections are. The nurse lets a drop out, to lube the needle, WHAM, no pain and done. This is with a 21 gauge, btw, NOT a tiny needle.

Read also my latest thread about HRT and the new 10 week protocol.

HH

For HH - did you have depression symptoms and did the shots help in that regard ? I will tell you straight up that I am not a weightlifter - I am trying to get my life back and free of
these horrible symptoms of fatigue, sadness and anxiety. I may be putting too much faith in the testosterone angle
but I want it to work because the side effects of the AD meds are often worse than the depression. Any success stories would be welcome.
[/quote]

I’ve been there, just as you described. Then, one day, I’m watching ‘King of the Hill’ and Hank (the main character, if not a fan) has all these symptoms. His wife starts stuffing him with Test tablets (very old school) and POOF!, he’s feeling like a teenager again. Well, no tablets anymore and you start by smearing this gel shit all over you. Little or no results. So, finally, let’s try the injections. Now, that fucking needle is 1 and 1/2 inches long and a 21 gauge, which is like a fire hose in needle-world! But, it didn’t hurt! I was shocked!

Now, I’m on a one shot every 3 weeks and it sucks. The cyp has a half life of 8 days, which means after 8 days there’s 150 mg of T in me, after 16 days there’s 75 mg. The last week is SHIT! So, as of now, I smear left over Androgel and Testim on during the last week.

Special Note: try the TRIBEX Gold product on here. I DO notice a difference.

I’m currently in process of going to an anti-aging clinic called Oasis Longevity. I want 300 mg every week, not every 3. I am 6’6" and 275. You might want to google it.

Write and let me know how you’re doing.

HH

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
PV Wolf wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
PV Wolf wrote:
Ok - 2 weeks on 5g of Androgel has done
nothing at all for motivation, energy, mood, libido etc. 2 questions : might raising the dose help and if I stop altogether, will I suffer the withdrawal period even though I am showing no effects of being on it.

thanks for reading

I called Solvay Pharmaceuticals and the pharmacist I spoke to said that it can take up to a couple of months to notice anything.

I recently switched to injections. I was really surprised by how utterly painless the injections are. The nurse lets a drop out, to lube the needle, WHAM, no pain and done. This is with a 21 gauge, btw, NOT a tiny needle.

Read also my latest thread about HRT and the new 10 week protocol.

HH

For HH - did you have depression symptoms and did the shots help in that regard ? I will tell you straight up that I am not a weightlifter - I am trying to get my life back and free of
these horrible symptoms of fatigue, sadness and anxiety. I may be putting too much faith in the testosterone angle
but I want it to work because the side effects of the AD meds are often worse than the depression. Any success stories would be welcome.

I’ve been there, just as you described. Then, one day, I’m watching ‘King of the Hill’ and Hank (the main character, if not a fan) has all these symptoms. His wife starts stuffing him with Test tablets (very old school) and POOF!, he’s feeling like a teenager again. Well, no tablets anymore and you start by smearing this gel shit all over you. Little or no results. So, finally, let’s try the injections. Now, that fucking needle is 1 and 1/2 inches long and a 21 gauge, which is like a fire hose in needle-world! But, it didn’t hurt! I was shocked!

Now, I’m on a one shot every 3 weeks and it sucks. The cyp has a half life of 8 days, which means after 8 days there’s 150 mg of T in me, after 16 days there’s 75 mg. The last week is SHIT! So, as of now, I smear left over Androgel and Testim on during the last week.

Special Note: try the TRIBEX Gold product on here. I DO notice a difference.

I’m currently in process of going to an anti-aging clinic called Oasis Longevity. I want 300 mg every week, not every 3. I am 6’6" and 275. You might want to google it.

Write and let me know how you’re doing.

HH

[/quote]
HH - do the shots relieve your anxiety
and depression symptoms in the early days after the shot ? If so, is it a huge remarkable difference ? I have been feeling so bad for 7 mos. that I am starting to forget what it was like
to not feel like this.

PVW

PVW

[quote]PV Wolf wrote:
HH - do the shots relieve your anxiety
and depression symptoms in the early days after the shot ? If so, is it a huge remarkable difference ? I have been feeling so bad for 7 mos. that I am starting to forget what it was like
to not feel like this.

PVW

PVW
[/quote]

Yes, I’d had a few attacks, none since I started therapy, esp with the shots.
The first week or 10 days after the shot is pretty good, not fantastic or anything. Then, the moods and shit begins to creep back, where you want to rip some other driver’s head clean off…uh, sorry, got sidetracked… :slight_smile:

Tell your doc everything you’ve told me and say, “I want a shot of Enanthanate (or Cyp) ASAP!!” Try to get them to agree to a once/week injection (good luck!) and have them teach you eventually how to self-inject in your thigh.

If shots hurt you a lot, get your doc to give you EMLA cream. Put it on 3 hours before the shot. It deadens the skin, but doesn’t help with any pain in the muscle (which, for me, is nonexistent). And don’t forget the TRIBEX that Biotest sells! It is GREAT and sounds like you need overnight delivery, my friend.

Mostly, remember man, you ARE NOT ALONE! You are a member of T-Nation and we help our bros. Hang in there!!

H2

[quote]gdm wrote:
PV Wolf wrote:
Ok - 2 weeks on 5g of Androgel has done
nothing at all for motivation, energy, mood, libido etc. 2 questions : might raising the dose help and if I stop altogether, will I suffer the withdrawal period even though I am showing no effects of being on it.

thanks for reading

PV Wolf,

I’m having the same results as you: no discernible effects at all after almost two weeks on 5g/day. I became desperate a few days ago and bumped it up to 10g/day and I think I’m actually starting to feel worse.

At any rate, at 10gms/day I’ll be done with whatever I have left (including refills) in about 1.5 months. It seems that quite a few people on this board had the same bad results.

I strongly doubt you will feel much in the way of withdrawals if you have noticed no positive benefits so far. That suggests that your T levels have not budged much at all so natural T suppression should not have been stunted to any large degree. That is only my opinion as I obviously don’t have firsthand experience as yet.

Very discouraging so far.

gdm

[/quote]

Hey GDM - any luck with the 10g ? hope so - give a shout when you can. PV

[quote]PV Wolf wrote:
gdm wrote:
PV Wolf wrote:
Ok - 2 weeks on 5g of Androgel has done
nothing at all for motivation, energy, mood, libido etc. 2 questions : might raising the dose help and if I stop altogether, will I suffer the withdrawal period even though I am showing no effects of being on it.

thanks for reading

PV Wolf,

I’m having the same results as you: no discernible effects at all after almost two weeks on 5g/day. I became desperate a few days ago and bumped it up to 10g/day and I think I’m actually starting to feel worse.

At any rate, at 10gms/day I’ll be done with whatever I have left (including refills) in about 1.5 months. It seems that quite a few people on this board had the same bad results.

I strongly doubt you will feel much in the way of withdrawals if you have noticed no positive benefits so far. That suggests that your T levels have not budged much at all so natural T suppression should not have been stunted to any large degree. That is only my opinion as I obviously don’t have firsthand experience as yet.

Very discouraging so far.

gdm

Hey GDM - any luck with the 10g ? hope so - give a shout when you can. PV[/quote]

PV,

I was on 10gms for about a week and noticed no differences. I since went back to 5gms because it appears that my insurance company will only pay for renewals based on the time period that corresponds with me using 5gms a day. So much for my little experiment.

I’m going to ride this out for at least a couple of months at 5gms and
see what happens. It sounds like you are not seeing any benefits so far either. I think 2 months is a reasonable amount of time to wait. If T levels haven’t budged much at that point then I’m through with this stuff.

The clinical trial brief I read (at the androgel.com site) stated that T levels for 94% of participants reached normal levels withing 24 hours. I didn’t see anything in this brief that indicated how the participants improved (fatigue symptoms, libido, etc) progressively over the period of time that they used the gel. I think Head Hunter mentioned he called Solvay and they told him that it could take up to 2 months to notice anything.

I’ll post again soon, hopefully with some good news.

gdm

[quote]gdm wrote:
PV Wolf wrote:
gdm wrote:
PV Wolf wrote:
Ok - 2 weeks on 5g of Androgel has done
nothing at all for motivation, energy, mood, libido etc. 2 questions : might raising the dose help and if I stop altogether, will I suffer the withdrawal period even though I am showing no effects of being on it.

thanks for reading

PV Wolf,

I’m having the same results as you: no discernible effects at all after almost two weeks on 5g/day. I became desperate a few days ago and bumped it up to 10g/day and I think I’m actually starting to feel worse.

At any rate, at 10gms/day I’ll be done with whatever I have left (including refills) in about 1.5 months. It seems that quite a few people on this board had the same bad results.

I strongly doubt you will feel much in the way of withdrawals if you have noticed no positive benefits so far. That suggests that your T levels have not budged much at all so natural T suppression should not have been stunted to any large degree. That is only my opinion as I obviously don’t have firsthand experience as yet.

Very discouraging so far.

gdm

Hey GDM - any luck with the 10g ? hope so - give a shout when you can. PV

PV,

I was on 10gms for about a week and noticed no differences. I since went back to 5gms because it appears that my insurance company will only pay for renewals based on the time period that corresponds with me using 5gms a day. So much for my little experiment.

I’m going to ride this out for at least a couple of months at 5gms and
see what happens. It sounds like you are not seeing any benefits so far either. I think 2 months is a reasonable amount of time to wait. If T levels haven’t budged much at that point then I’m through with this stuff.

The clinical trial brief I read (at the androgel.com site) stated that T levels for 94% of participants reached normal levels withing 24 hours. I didn’t see anything in this brief that indicated how the participants improved (fatigue symptoms, libido, etc) progressively over the period of time that they used the gel. I think Head Hunter mentioned he called Solvay and they told him that it could take up to 2 months to notice anything.

I’ll post again soon, hopefully with some good news.

gdm[/quote]

Hey GDM - thanks for the reply, I have decided to go for 10g per day. 3 days in, I dont feel any worse - but not really any better. My doc is pretty open to shots or whatever I want to do
but I doubt I will go down that road.
I hope you get some good results. I will post mine (if any…) as well. PV

[quote]gdm wrote:
PV Wolf wrote:
gdm wrote:
PV Wolf wrote:
Ok - 2 weeks on 5g of Androgel has done
nothing at all for motivation, energy, mood, libido etc. 2 questions : might raising the dose help and if I stop altogether, will I suffer the withdrawal period even though I am showing no effects of being on it.

thanks for reading

PV Wolf,

I’m having the same results as you: no discernible effects at all after almost two weeks on 5g/day. I became desperate a few days ago and bumped it up to 10g/day and I think I’m actually starting to feel worse.

At any rate, at 10gms/day I’ll be done with whatever I have left (including refills) in about 1.5 months. It seems that quite a few people on this board had the same bad results.

I strongly doubt you will feel much in the way of withdrawals if you have noticed no positive benefits so far. That suggests that your T levels have not budged much at all so natural T suppression should not have been stunted to any large degree. That is only my opinion as I obviously don’t have firsthand experience as yet.

Very discouraging so far.

gdm

Hey GDM - any luck with the 10g ? hope so - give a shout when you can. PV

PV,

I was on 10gms for about a week and noticed no differences. I since went back to 5gms because it appears that my insurance company will only pay for renewals based on the time period that corresponds with me using 5gms a day. So much for my little experiment.

I’m going to ride this out for at least a couple of months at 5gms and
see what happens. It sounds like you are not seeing any benefits so far either. I think 2 months is a reasonable amount of time to wait. If T levels haven’t budged much at that point then I’m through with this stuff.

The clinical trial brief I read (at the androgel.com site) stated that T levels for 94% of participants reached normal levels withing 24 hours. I didn’t see anything in this brief that indicated how the participants improved (fatigue symptoms, libido, etc) progressively over the period of time that they used the gel. I think Head Hunter mentioned he called Solvay and they told him that it could take up to 2 months to notice anything.

I’ll post again soon, hopefully with some good news.

gdm[/quote]

Hey - latest numbers taken after 2 weeks on 5g - total = 330 (up 100 pts)
free = 7 (down 2 points ). As I mentioned, no real changes in symptoms.
PV