T Nation

Will a Cycle Fry My Balls for Good?

I really appreciate what you have said mate, i’m glad to see you ended up getting yourself sorted in the end, I am 26 and also worried about children too later down the line, if i’m not already infertile. my test level was 241ng/dl which again is also pretty rubbish. We have no male hormone clinics, was speaking to a reputable clinic online that is in the uk though, and also was recommended from people on here.

As you mention TRT is last resort, would clomid be something I could try and use to raise my natural testosterone? See where that gets me after a course of that, if testosterone has inproved, carry on without the clomid and then see what it results in at another 6 months to see if it stayed or dropped? Would that be something worth doing first? What would clomid provide for me other than raise slight testosterone levels, any side effects id have?

thanks.

Im very weak, I get joint paints, and always being injured just lifting ordinary things around at work to a point where its upsetting me. Everytime I do something I get hurt, everything feels heavy, im definitely not exhausted but I have no energy to do anything. This is not me! I used to play sports 5 times a week, be out sporting with friends, now I do none of this, kg’s lighter and still feel 100 years old. Hardly any body hair, never grown a beard, shave once a month just for good measures, sister has more leg hair on a good day.

Im aware doing a cycle will of course temporarily make changes, didn’t want that to be perminant with having such a low natural test in the first place, didn’t want it to diminish completely.

You actually made my day with that comment, so I see it relevant :laughing:

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This sounds much more complex than just low T. See a good specialist/functional medicine expert.

Do you drink alcohol? Do you take any recreational drugs? Have you tried supplementing with exogenous iodine for a week? (It’s cheaper, legaler (I made that one up!), and easier than exogenous test) have you tried a high-in-quality-fat diet? Do you consume at least 75g of high quality fats/day? How are your stress levels? Besides breaking up with GF, have you had any other problems in your life lately? Have you considered that after a huge fat loss like you described, your body was “primed for fat gain?” Did you alter your diet after losing all that fat or did you just keep-on-keeping-on at a deficit? Pardon me if I missed it, but what did your nutrition look like to get you to drop 80lbs (in 5 months?)? I think that your nutrition and rapid-body-composition-change may have had a lot to do with your hormones being out of whack. 80lbs (ok, 77…) is a huge change in that little bit of time. anytime you push, your body will push back. Equal and opposite reaction.
Just my 2¢.

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Firstly thanks for the response.

My maximum alcohol consumption would be around 100-150ml of vodka which is 6 units per week, normally on the same night, but the past 3 weeks I haven’t drank any and been taking 3g of D’Aspartic Acid per morning as a natural test raiser to see if things improve, but seems it just gives me a bad bowel.

I have never taken any drugs in my life, and I do not smoke tobacco nor tried it for that matter, and I shall look up exogenous iodine and see what that’s all about. Fat consumption will vary, I do track my calories and I haven’t seen my fat consumption lower than 60g per day and hasn’t been above 90g that I remember for the past year at least, fat content come from things like beef, tuna, olive oil that I use to cook chicken and I use whole eggs so the fat from those too, natural peanut butter. My sugar is always around 40g, mostly coming from milk, banana, broccoli, is that too low? Surely it wouldn’t effect testosterone, maybe energy at times? Carbs come from whole grain oats, brown bread, brown rice, occasionally pasta, but not so much.

Ive had 3 lots of cortisol tests done for stress and they all came back normal, 24hr urine cortisol, 9am cortisol and a overnight dex cortisol.

I understand that I may be prone to putting fat on easier than others, I weigh 168lbs, 174cms tall and still around 18% bodyfat.

My diet from losing weight was very strict, I didn’t fall short on calories, although I did train excessive cardio to begin with, cardio only on a high protein diet from 231lbs to around 180lbs, then I dialled in weight training and added more fat(on my deficit it was around 30g of fat per day) my protein was around 250g per day on my deficit, and since I put the stone back on my protein has been around 180-200g whilst I were weighing 154lb up to 168lb but no stronger, weaker.

Here was the simple maths I used to lose weight that quickly.

First of all I work in a factory and walk around 12k steps per day, (200’ish calories) I wore a heart strap to calculate this.

At 231lbs my maintenance was around 3500 + 1000 calories everyday without fail + work contribution 200.

4700 calories. I was eating around 2000-2500 per day, that’s a loss of approximately 2500 calories per day, resulting in 17,500 calories per week deficit. Stupid I know… that’s 5lb per week weight loss. of course the less I weighed, the less I burned and I had to adapt training or food to compensate for that,

I finally got down to 154lbs, I was stook at that weight for 2-3 solid months, so my maintenance was around 2100 at this time. I started to consume around 2700(200 being work purposes) so that would result in 400 calorie surplus enough for one hour weight lifting in the gym 5 days a week. I blew up to 168lbs in no time, no stronger, I just hurt for 3/4 days after each workout and end up the exact same each time.

Hormones by now should be in tact surely! after 6 months of being away from a deficit and training and eating properly like everyone else it should have adapted?

Oh the whole time I supplemented with vitamins, minerals and electrolytes as I was working out a lot and sweating a lot, also drinking 5-6 liters of water per day to make the weight back up,

It is LEGAL to have possession and inject steroids in my country which is why no one goes to the NHS, I want the NHS route as I don’t know what is going on just yet.

You could research HPTA restart protocol which would involve clomid/nolva and HCG used at varying times over the course of the protocol. The underlying issue has yet to be determined though so you may have success going this route but it may also be short term. I can qualitatively explain why my endocrine system called it quits but the scientific/medical field can’t really determine it quantitatively. I would stress speaking with KSMan and if a doctor will not order the labs the KSMan suggests, there are ways to order the labs on your own online without physician involvement. Share said lab data with KSMan and go from there. If that seems long and arduous you can just go the TRT route but it’s a one way street. You can’t easily go back…

If I had to analyze your situation, I would say that you stayed at a significant deficit for too long. Are you familiar with reverse-dieting? Many bodybuilders find that immediately after a show (or a plateau for non-competition folks) they are primed for fat gain. It seems like your fats were VERY low for the bulk of your cut. I’ve always heard to eat at least 50g/fat for health reasons. It sounds like your body was starving for a long time, and it metabolically adapted to the stimulus you were giving it. EyeDentist says that he killed his metabolism by eating at a defecit, and increasing cardio, in an effort to lose fat that had accumulated after his body adapted. Bottom-line: your body will adapt to whatever stimulus you give it; it will create/find a “new baseline” or equilibrium-point. After a few months of consistency, especially if your routine is the same day-to-day, your body will have done everything it can with the input you provide.

Have you tried varying your diet? Carb-cycling? High fats a day or two a week? Personally: when I was skinny-fat, it was INCREASING my fat intake that allowed me to lose weight and feel a significant quality-of-life improvement (i.e. Daily morning-wood). At 210lbs, I consumed 3800-4000 kcals daily, often 200g/F, and I dropped body fat and put on lean mass for awhile (until my body hit it’s equilibrium).

Regarding legality of anabolics: I understand that they are legal in the UK, but do you ever plan to leave the UK? Can you legally take them on the train/plane to EU? I would really look at TRT as a last resort, because it seems like a one-way ticket.

When I was 25 I had a period of (what felt like) hormone issues (ED, depression, etc). It took time, patience, and an overall reduction in life-stress to overcome. I wish you lots of luck on your quest for health and wellness; nothing is more important.