T Nation

Will a Cycle Fry My Balls for Good?


#1

Here is a little bit about me.

I am 26 years old
male
5ft9
168lbs
BMI 26

In the past 3 years I have had some ups and downs, emotionally, physically and just a rubbish well being. Long story short I ended up weighing 231lb @ 38% body fat out of no where. Was always athletic, always the captain of the team pushing myself and others to work harder at football(Soccer), I played ice hockey for a few years.

I started the gym a year ago this month, in 5 months I had gone from 231lbs to 154lbs @ 13% bodyfat, as mentioned I was a very determined and enthusiastic person and always pushing myself, I finally got to that 11 stone goal I wanted to achieve which all came from excitement, positive comments from friends, and adrenaline.

Since I got to 11 stone(154lbs), I was then happy to start to train hard and continue eating well, and put on some weight consisting of 5 training days, 1 light cardio day, and 1 rest day. In a matter of 4 weeks I was weighing 168lbs + 18% body fat. not a single KG heavier in any of my workouts which suggests I just got fat again, I had addressed this to my doctor as I started to feel very weak, lacking of energy and not being able to sleep well. We carried out some hormone tests to show my testosterone levels were 8.4, 10.1, and 14.2nmol/L which is severely low!

I have not been prescribed any drugs to help with these as they are in range with the all famous UK NHS…

Wanting to take things into my own hands,

1 If I were to cycle testosterone at 500mg per week, Pinning 2x per week, would this drop my natural testosterone even lower and cause me problems, would it suppress me altogether? make me infertile?

2 Should I start one of the well known TRT protocols from on this forum, concidering I am not infertile as of yet. LH level is 2.7 (Range 1.5-17)

Sorry for the huge read, I really want help as my doctors or endocrine really does not want to help me or know whats in my best interest. The idea behind the cycle would be to give me mass, which would result in more food and more energy to carry out daily tasks and try bring my BMI to a normal weight.

Any replies regarding to dieting or losing weight first will be ignored, as you can see im fully aware how to diet and lose weight, it just isn’t working anymore, been stuck at 168lbs for more than a few month.

Thanks.


#2

tenor


#3

The reason I wont accept that as an excuse is because I’ve worked hard and got where I wanted, but unfortunately my energy levels have dropped significantly and now unable to sleep very well. Clearly my Natural testosterone is a problem the NHS isn’t willing to help with, I have very very little mass and can only just about manage 8 reps of 120lbs. My diet is dialled in as it should be, my training could be improved, but because I don’t have the energy to be lifting more than 20 minutes anymore.


#4

Sorry. Was my first thought when I read it lel.

It’ll be alright man. Heard TRT’s a bitch in the UK … well at least the laws are a bit friendlier than where I’m from.

Could you clarify what you mean/what you hope to achieve with gear?

It’ll add a bit more mass for sure but you’re still going to have to eat correctly or else this will become a cutting cycle. Its not like you’re gonna put on 20kg of lean mass fast or something like that so the change in your BMR won’t be that big. If you want to eat more then do so…? Pretty sure your BMI is in the healthy range too.

Anyways it seems that you’ve still much research to do on dat dere Soviet Sport Supplementation. I don’t think anyone can be fucked telling you everything so a bit of reading is required. Try the stickies in the T Replacement category of these forums.


#5

That’s ok. TRT Is very difficult, ive already been through all the correct routes, and they will not even offer me some sort of testosterone raiser such as clomiphene, nothing to treat my ED, nothing to treat the lack of energy. All my vitamins, minerals, RBC, hormones are all fine apart from Testosterone. Cortisol has been checked etc, I sweat excessively with little to no movement, always cold, friends shiver when they touch my hand.

As for the question was referring to which would you basically think would be ideal, and if my testosterone level is already as low as 8.4nmol if I did a cycle, would that naturally attain itself, or would I be left even lower than before? The problem with self prescribing TRT at this time is in a matter of 1 year could leave my LH levels for dead and not being able to have a child.

The idea behind cycling is to add some mass, energy getting up in the mornings, hopefully add mass to my back and prevent the back pains I get on my spine, be able to carry myself a little better, I don’t feel healthy at all. Dieting isn’t always considered weight loss, but in general my diet is pretty clean, lean meats, complex carbs and healthy fats, the odd piece of fried chicken here and there every other week. Don’t really have a taste for cakes or sugar once i’m away from them. My BMR is estimated around 2100, Which was calculated by wearing a heart strap for 24 hours to calculate the calories burned with an elevating heart rate.

My BMI should be around 21.5bmi to be healthy, it currently sits at 26 which is overweight even at 164lbs, saying that once ive added mass, ill have the ability to burn some of the 18% bodyfat I am. would like to be at 15% bodyfat eventually, not from the cycle.

Ive done a lot of reading on anabolics, that isn’t the reason I was initially here, I have a post on the TRT section, I have had some help, but still nothing bringing me to any kind of conclusion as no one wants to help anyone under the NHS because its a complete circle.

Thanks


#6

I suspect your issues are more complex than ‘just’ low T. As the very wise KS Man says often: thyroid can place a heavy lid on other hormones…best to get it checked and ‘normalised’ first, before delving into other hormones.

Your ‘need energy to get out of bed’ is a bit of a giveaway (to me) that there are other issues, maybe thyroid, maybe cortisol/adrenaline.

Or perhaps there are ‘simple’ lifestyle issues at play. I mean you seem to have a strong tendency to put on fat. Could be genetic, could be stress/lifestyle related.


#7

But to answer your question, no a well-thought out cycle should not necessarily ‘fry’ your balls/HPTA.

Have you considered that certain peptides (IGF1 and GH frag specifically) can probably get you most of what you seek from AAS, but without the HPTA ‘risk’?


#8

Whatever you do, do not cycle. Your endocrine system appears to have some issues and is in a fragile state to say the least. The addition of EXOGENOUS Testosterone of any amount for virtually in duration will only negatively impact you in the long run, unless you’ve given up and are going the TRT route. Before you give up you need to get a crap load of labs to try to better understand what is going on. Agree with poster above, KSMan has some great info here for your reading pleasure to get you started. If all else fails and you do go the TRT route, make sure you get a doc that will also prescribe you HCG. Once your balls atrophy and you have TRT induced azoospermia, reversing that is a long and painful process. HCG concurrently with TRT will help to preserve fertility and testicular size, as well as promote an overall increased sense of well being vs test replacement alone.


#9

I don’t think I will ever understand this forum. For thousands of years humans have been taking care of themselves but these days it just takes a bad few months and everyone wants to jab needles into themselves for the rest of their lives…

What
The
Fuck?


#10

Shots fired pew pew pew


#11

Thanks for your input @peptide_guru.

I have had full hormone panel done, cortisol, TSH, Oral temperatures, Adrenaline(androstenedione). vitamins, minerals, full blood counts. They all came back within ‘Range’ including the Testosterone which came back at 8.4nmol/L and the range is 8-27nmol/L.

I can strongly agree that I can easily gain fat due to genetics, but currently my BMI is 26 weighing 168lbs, is that really overweight enough to drop my Testosterone that much?

Peptides isn’t something I have looked into before, will do research on that, and is the reason im questioning these things so I can look into it more than just testosterone. Im not here to try and get big and muscular, I just want to be able to obtain energy to last me more than 2/3pm everyday, and to be able to carry my weight a little better, give my back abit of support when standing etc but speaking of IGF-1 and GH, I had those tested too and both confirmed normal.


#12

Thanks for your input @Volfan4life87.

Exactly the question I wanted to be answered in all honesty, yes I do clearly have some sort of problem for my Testosterone to be sat so low, the endocrine believes it is not hormonal. @KSman has given me some good information on my TRT post, but not enough to directly find out what is wrong, and ive also been left to one side by my NHS doctors so willing to take it into my own hands. I have read into HCG and aware that whilst taking 250IU EOD will slow down testicular atrophy. TRT was the route I was willing to take if the NHS put me through it, but they wasn’t willing to help me out at all, no medication for ED, Muscle loss, no HPTA restart or anything of that kind, I read up on my endocrine and he specialises in Diabetes(Which I am clear of btw).

I just want to live and feel like a 26 year old, not constantly tired, lacking of energy, no motivation or drive to do anything, I currently split up from my girlfriend due to me not having the drive to move on together, libido is still there, but never get any spontaneous erections or morning wood.


#13

@Irishman92

Completely understand your concern, nothing said on here will be taken at heart, its all valuable information.

I have been this way from the ages of 19, the doctors diagnosed me with depression and anxiety which was absurd. I had friends, money, a car, a motorcycle, a girlfriend, family. I was really happy until around the ages of 19 when it all fell down, I started to get erectile dysfunction, that was the first thing I had noticed, wasn’t able to have sex with the girlfriend for 45 minutes solid like I used to, it was more 5 minutes and over this time I am now 26, I cant keep an erection for longer than 1 minute and even then its not a full erection. Ive only just decided to address it to the doctors. My energy levels dropped insanely, I used to play football and I quid that due to lack of motivation and energy.

I don’t want to jab needles for the rest of my life, im frightened of them for one. I wanted to know if I did one small cycle to help my body get to where it should have got to after puberty to carry myself better, give me the mass ill need to feel like I have energy etc, I have no mass at all. I wanted to avoid TRT and get there normally, but it isn’t a choice when I have a level of 241ng/dl! I wanted the NHS to consider clomid to try raise it to normal levels but they wasn’t interested.


#14

One other thing I didn’t mention. I have asthma since birth, gave that up at the age of 19, went back to the doctors at age 22 to try and get inhalers as I had started playing ice hockey and was really struggling with breathing. Doctor would prescribe inhalers due to blowing over the amount on the peak flow after sitting in a reception area for 40 minutes previously.


#15

I remember reading a protocol by a guy on another forum years ago, that utilised the mitochondrial-rejuvenating effects of co Q10 at high doses. Basically you dissolve Q10 power into coconut oil to improve bioavailability.

I tried it and found it to be excellent at eliminating that 2/3pm slump that you are talking about. On a cost:benefit ration, I consider it to be one of the best things I’ve ever spent money on. It also keep me lean, by allowing my mitochondria to more efficiently burn energy substrate.

Are you aware that you convert test into estrogen in your fat cells? The more fat cell you have, the more easily you ‘lose’ T and the more you gain E. Since the higher your estrogen is, the hypothalamus restricts T output by way of negative feedback.


#16

Maybe but probably not

The NHS isn’t going to help you after in the case you hurt yourself.


#17

@peptide_guru

I shall look into the co Q10, once dissolved into the coconut oil do you just orally take this? Any specific times? Ill look for remedy’s including this method online shortly.

I’m fully aware of Testosterone converting into Oestradiol. Could it be I have a lot of fat cells remaining from the huge amount of weight I have lost in the past 12 months? Im weighing 168lbs, I had a caliper body fat test done came back at 15% and a machine at 18% which would conclude me having around 25-30lbs of body fat, is that really that excessive to a point it wouldn’t allow a decent Testosterone production?

LH Serum 2.8 u/L range (1.5-18.1u/L)
FSH Serum 4.9u/L range (1.4-18.1u/L)
SHBG 20nmol/L no range given
TT Serum 8.4nmol/L range (8-27nmol/L)
Androstenedione 6.3nmol/L (2.1-10.8)
Oestrodiol 106pmol/L (upto 191pmol/L)
Serum TSH 0.75mu/L (0.3-5.5)
Vitamin D 25-hydroxy 53nmol/L (24.0-167.0)

Free testosterone calculated via
TT- 8.4nmol/L
Albumin- 4.6g/dL
SHBG- 20nmol/L

Free T - 0.202nmol/L - 2.41%
Bioavailable T - 5.06nmol/L

The percentages of FT seems to be within the 2/3% that it should be, but just not producing enough of it, it seems.

Here are my test results, nothing even abnormal, apart from the Testosterone. Cortisol I didn’t get the results by paper, came back normal though. Did a 24hr urine cortisol, am cortisol and a dex suppression cortisol. Currently taking Vitamin D supplement. B6 was also fine.

I have NOT been tested for HIV,AIDS. Could this be a possibility? Although RBC and FBC came back all with in range, surely that would of came back with high blood pressure and high haemoglobin and red blood cells if that was possible? Doctor wasn’t even entertained at the idea of testing for it.

@jasmincar

That’s why I need advice, don’t want to end up infertile and then not be able to have children, hence staying away from TRT unless im given it by NHS. Wouldn’t mind a cycle for 5-10lb of mass to help my wellbeing,

Thanks both.


#18

I completely understand the sentiment. My test crashed when I was 21 for no discernible reason. I spent 2 years trying to convince 5 different endo’s that something was very very wrong with me, but they simply looked at my muscular stature and accused me of crashing my own production via exogenous androgens. It’s literally written in my patient notes ‘results consistent with exogenous androgen use’ or some bull****. My test was as low as 119 ng/dl and after 2 years it never was higher than ~350 ng/dl and on my final check up before my PCP gave me TRT, it was still 124 ng/dl. Most endo’s are soooo in the dark on these issues. You’re almost better off going to a male hormone clinic if they have one where you live. In any case, I was where you are at. I felt miserable and literally just wished I would fall over dead somehow instead because I felt like this was going to be my life from now on and I couldn’t handle feeling so damn miserable every day. There’s light at the end of the tunnel; just don’t give up and accept feeling like $h!t. I’m married now, have good test levels (700-750 ng/dl), great sex life, great gains when injury free, etc. I was almost 24 when I started TRT. My wife and I cannot have children because of my TRT. I’d have to stop test, do a restart, run some clomid/hcg, all the works. TRT should be a last resort because it’s a one-way trip man. Good luck


#19

Having 5-10lbs more of mass or doing a cycle will not help your well being at all.

Doing one cycle will hurt your fertility for sure to some extent but will not completely destroy it.


#20

I have absolutely nothing of value to add here, but this may be the best thread title I’ve seen in some time. For what it’s worth though, I did get my balls friend once and I’m pretty sure she was on her cycle.