I had a shoulder issue and i suspect OHP. I might try it in some months but i will be looking to stop at any negative sign. Thanks to broomstick stretch and or hands pullaparts my shoulder is now OK.
OP, if you have lagging delts then really look into and experiment with meadows stuff.
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]paulieserafini wrote:
don’t waste your time overhead pressing this is the dumbbest workout I’ve ever seen, just…NEVER DO IT.
Yeah I am significantly wider than before I started lifting.
the majority of width comes from building each head of the delts with isolations as well as building up the lats with compounds.[/quote]
x2
Quit OHPing a while back and my shoulders have never looked or felt better.[/quote]
I’m in the same boat here too. All OHP ever did was hit my anterior delts, did nothing to make my shoulders wider and just caused loads of injuries.
Zraw doesn’t OHP either I don’t think[/quote]
There are a lot of people who don’t OHP much anymore and focus on laterals and John Meadows Mountain Dog training ideas.
Very helpful IMO. Shoulder pumps like I’ve never experienced before.[/quote]
yeah man, actually get lactic acid burn in my delts now which I’ve never had before.
Might add dumbell shoulder presses back in, but only after I’ve done my raises…
[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
[quote]paulieserafini wrote:
don’t waste your time overhead pressing this is the dumbbest workout I’ve ever seen, just…NEVER DO IT.
Yeah I am significantly wider than before I started lifting.
the majority of width comes from building each head of the delts with isolations as well as building up the lats with compounds.[/quote]
lol you serious paulie? you dont overhead press at all?[/quote]
No they have been rough on my shoulders since the beginning. Dumbbells feel better, but they also feel like they only hit the front delt, which is bleh
^^some light OHP might not be a bad idea later in your routine but could be substituted, IMO, for some front delt raises or really high incline pressing variations.
Strict OHPing is somewhat of an outdated exercise for physique purposes IMO.
I agree that OHP doesn’t seem to do much for the shoulders, but I use it as an upper back exercise. I have definitely noticed better mid trap and uppper trap pumps from using moderate weight and reps. Laterals using all different weights and angles FTW if you’re looking for width. I like to get a nice pump in my rear delts (using a cable with no attachment while bent over) after the pump I do a few heavy negatives, might be mental but I think they help.
Working on stretching the lats and having at least one exercise that will be a “stretcher” + working on the lateral head of the delts is whats gonna be the most beneficial. IMO
Any form of overhead pressing sucks IF DONE AS FIRST EXERCISE, imo.
I sometimes have some kind of overhead pressing in my shoulder routine but as a last exercise when my other delts head are burnt and when my front head is also burnt from the chest pressing.
Fwiw I do not think the front delt contribute much to a “basketball delt” look.
I agree that OHP doesn’t seem to do much for the shoulders, but I use it as an upper back exercise. I have definitely noticed better mid trap and uppper trap pumps from using moderate weight and reps. Laterals using all different weights and angles FTW if you’re looking for width. I like to get a nice pump in my rear delts (using a cable with no attachment while bent over) after the pump I do a few heavy negatives, might be mental but I think they help.
[quote] MODOK wrote:
A few of my thoughts-
In my opinion, if you are an average-gened guy, you will never attain truly stunning increases in muscle mass (bodybuilder-type fullness) without putting an enormous effort into at LEAST one plain old weight gaining cycle. What do I mean by that? I mean gaining a lot of weight over a pre-determined time (18-24 months) and training as hard and as frequently as possible during that time. What is a “lot” of weight? Its really individualized… some folks can only handle 60, some more…personally, I gained 100+ lbs over a 2 year period. Now, this isn’t “fun”… nothing about stuffing food down your mouth when you are already full is fun… we aren’t talking lard ass Larry down the street eating his pizza and cannolis every night. This means eggs, beef, beans, whole milk, cottage cheese or whatever you fancy, and eating it till your uncomfortable, then eating more 2 hours later… every day for a LONG time. Why is this necessary? Its simple-
Homeostasis. Nature has made you to be preferentially small and weak. Its a genetically unfavorable position to have a bunch of calorie burning bulky muscle mass on your body. Your body fights like hell to keep it off… and it is VERY crafty and has many mechanisms of doing so. TO defeat it you have to enter into the a certain environment- super-saturating the body with nutrients and calories while simultaneously training so hard as to take your body to its very limit. Only then will your body be FORCED to remodel. Remodeling, in my opinion, is much more than simply hypertrophy. There are many adaptations which take place- boney insertion points for tendons increase in density and size, tendons, thicken, muscle fascia stretches, long bones become dense (and in some cases remodel structurally some I believe). Shit changes in a MAJOR way. When you are done, and after you cut back down to a contest or an “in-shape” condition, if you have done it correctly your body may structurally look very different than when you started. Your chest, shoulders, etc may look like they aren’t yours at all, but have been transplanted onto you from some totally different person.
When you decide to do a mass phase like this, thats when this shit gets real. Its not for everyone… not even for most people that “lift” weights. But if you truly want as much muscle as your body can carry, you HAVE to do these extremely uncomfortable things, and do them for an appreciable amount of time.
Anyway, thats just my thoughts on a beginning bodybuilder’s “Alpha” mass phase. [/quote] Is what I have seen if it answers your question, that and I noticed my tendons in certain areas do grow (although my whole body hasn’t finished so that is not much to go off of) so I suppose it wouldn’t be impossible.
[quote]ElevenMag wrote:
Your clavicle in one of the last bones to mature meaning you could have growth into your mid-twenties. This along with your spine and jaw. My wisdom teeth are still coming in at 24. Maybe your seeing this or possibly just the illusion of broader shoulders[/quote]
REALLY?? Is that actually a fact?? Intersting…
[quote]Michael Crehan wrote:
[quote]ElevenMag wrote:
Your clavicle in one of the last bones to mature meaning you could have growth into your mid-twenties. This along with your spine and jaw. My wisdom teeth are still coming in at 24. Maybe your seeing this or possibly just the illusion of broader shoulders[/quote]
REALLY?? Is that actually a fact?? Intersting…[/quote]
I’m just about to turn 20, started lifting when I was 17, and I swear my skeleton’s growth accelerated then. Especially my clavicles and the depth and width of my ribcage.
Finally eating enough? More testosterone? Legit remodeling due to stress? I have no idea. But I’m convinced that it happened and is still happening. Pretty awesome.
(Also, WTF at all the OHP hate? You BB’ers are weird 
I’m way, way less experienced than most of you but laterals alone don’t do shit for my delts compared to lots of volume on heavy, explosive OHP. That includes side delts too.
Everybody’s different…)
I was just re-reading an old John Meadows article and came across this quote:
“standard barbell incline presses are among my favorite exercises for shoulder width”
Just thought I should post it here.
[quote]Michael Crehan wrote:
[quote]ElevenMag wrote:
Your clavicle in one of the last bones to mature meaning you could have growth into your mid-twenties. This along with your spine and jaw. My wisdom teeth are still coming in at 24. Maybe your seeing this or possibly just the illusion of broader shoulders[/quote]
REALLY?? Is that actually a fact?? Intersting…[/quote]
A dentist/researcher from the mayo clinic in Minneapolis told me this while I was having my x-rays of my budding wisdom teeth checked (they started poking through when i was 22 and are entirely erupted on the top of my jaw but not entirely on the bottom and I will be 24 in FEB). Some of it is cartilage growth in your spine and shoulders but essentially he said their are case studies of people growing until they are 28-32. Keep in mind this is the far right, several standard deviations, of a hypothetical bell curve. After 32 almost everyone starts a downward, catabolic spiral where they produce less and less hormones compared to the anabolic “growing” phases before that age.
It was a interesting conversation to say the least
[quote]furo wrote:
I was just re-reading an old John Meadows article and came across this quote:
“standard barbell incline presses are among my favorite exercises for shoulder width”
Just thought I should post it here.[/quote]
okay thats a little funny…
[quote]optheta wrote:
[quote]furo wrote:
I was just re-reading an old John Meadows article and came across this quote:
“standard barbell incline presses are among my favorite exercises for shoulder width”
Just thought I should post it here.[/quote]
okay thats a little funny…[/quote]
Incline BB Press is fine. People are saying that OHP’ing may not be the best (or a necessary) tool for achieving the look many Physique Athletes are gunning for.
Doesn’t it depend on how you Incline Bench? I mean I do a pretty low angle and bring the BB to my nipples.
Your bone structure changes in order to adapt to weight gain or stress.
/thread
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
Incline BB Press is fine. People are saying that OHP’ing may not be the best (or a necessary) tool for achieving the look many Physique Athletes are gunning for. [/quote]
Oh yeah I wasn’t trying to say anything about the OHP debate - I just thought the quote applied to the original question so I posted it.
[quote]zraw wrote:
Working on stretching the lats and having at least one exercise that will be a “stretcher” + working on the lateral head of the delts is whats gonna be the most beneficial. IMO
[/quote]
Thanks.
What do you mean by a “stretcher”? Stretching the lats in this case, like, say, low pulley rows?
[quote]DeltaOne wrote:
Your bone structure changes in order to adapt to weight gain or stress.
/thread[/quote]
Thanks.