T Nation

Wide Shoulders: Question


#21

[quote]nighthawkz wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]GetBigs wrote:
Look at calisthenics people: I think all they do for delts is mainly bodyweight shoulder press, no? [/quote]

What do you mean by “calisthenics people”? I was in the military. I’ve not seen people develop good side delts doing mainly calisthenics, unless they were born with good delts to begin with.
[/quote]

He’s talking about guys like Hannibal - you know, guys who’ve been training productively for about 10-20 years. As I said, nothing comes fast. Deal with it.

https://youtu.be/wMz_hWwSRJ4[/quote]

Oh ok, got it.

The dude’s also VERY lean.


#22

To create illusion of wide shoulders, remember do lot of lateral raises and rows.
don’t do anything to your obliques or upper traps.


#23

[quote]nighthawkz wrote:
The issue is that many people turn overhead pressing into a standing incline press once the weight gets heavy. Another issue is that low reps simply won’t work for some people’s shoulder muscles.[/quote]

To expand on this, the reason why weight goals suck as a metric for physical development is that, once a number is established, newbie trainees fixate on achieving the number instead of doing what it takes to hit their physique goal.

Someone hears “You have to press 1.5x bodyweight to get some good shoulders”, and so they decide they’re going to REALLY dial down their pressing form. They learn how to contract their glutes, drive their head through at the top, squeeze the bar as hard as possible, and press in a straight line, and after months of practicing their technique, they finally manage to get where they wanted to.

…and the whole time, they never got any stronger. They just got better at the movement.

It’s the same with the whole "300lb bench, 400lb squat, 500lb deadlift’ benchmarks. People are trying to run smolov to get their squat up to 400 so that they’ll FINALLY look like a bodybuilder. The whole point of these bench marks was just to give an idea of around WHEN you’d see some progress, not that you have to train with this goal in mind.

If you just train your ass off, push yourself, learn how to target the muscles you want, you’ll get where you need to get when you get there.


#24

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]nighthawkz wrote:
The issue is that many people turn overhead pressing into a standing incline press once the weight gets heavy. Another issue is that low reps simply won’t work for some people’s shoulder muscles.[/quote]

To expand on this, the reason why weight goals suck as a metric for physical development is that, once a number is established, newbie trainees fixate on achieving the number instead of doing what it takes to hit their physique goal.

Someone hears “You have to press 1.5x bodyweight to get some good shoulders”, and so they decide they’re going to REALLY dial down their pressing form. They learn how to contract their glutes, drive their head through at the top, squeeze the bar as hard as possible, and press in a straight line, and after months of practicing their technique, they finally manage to get where they wanted to.

…and the whole time, they never got any stronger. They just got better at the movement.

It’s the same with the whole "300lb bench, 400lb squat, 500lb deadlift’ benchmarks. People are trying to run smolov to get their squat up to 400 so that they’ll FINALLY look like a bodybuilder. The whole point of these bench marks was just to give an idea of around WHEN you’d see some progress, not that you have to train with this goal in mind.

If you just train your ass off, push yourself, learn how to target the muscles you want, you’ll get where you need to get when you get there.
[/quote]

EXACTLY


#25

I would imagine that yes, someone who could military press 1.5x their bodyweight would have big shoulders.

Pretty dumb point to make, though. It’s like asking if someone with a 4x bodyweight squat would have big legs.


#26

[quote]Yogi wrote:
I would imagine that yes, someone who could military press 1.5x their bodyweight would have big shoulders.

Pretty dumb point to make, though. It’s like asking if someone with a 4x bodyweight squat would have big legs.[/quote]

This was exactly what I thought when I read this. That’s a pretty huge number. I’m very lean, my shoulders don’t suck, and I’m not anywhere close to that number. I think there are ways to reach the goal of having ‘wide shoulders’ without OHP’ing 1.5x bodyweight.

I do think OHP’s are a fine way to grow the delts though. So are incline presses and bench presses. And face pulls. And deadlifts. And working hard in the gym in general. It’s likely the case that the OP doesn’t have anything well developed. It’s hard to get the ‘wide shoulder’ look by doing anything other than getting big and strong.


#27

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:
I would imagine that yes, someone who could military press 1.5x their bodyweight would have big shoulders.

Pretty dumb point to make, though. It’s like asking if someone with a 4x bodyweight squat would have big legs.[/quote]

This was exactly what I thought when I read this. That’s a pretty huge number. I’m very lean, my shoulders don’t suck, and I’m not anywhere close to that number. I think there are ways to reach the goal of having ‘wide shoulders’ without OHP’ing 1.5x bodyweight.

I do think OHP’s are a fine way to grow the delts though. So are incline presses and bench presses. And face pulls. And deadlifts. And working hard in the gym in general. It’s likely the case that the OP doesn’t have anything well developed. It’s hard to get the ‘wide shoulder’ look by doing anything other than getting big and strong.[/quote]

yeah, and wide shoulders are more about just lateral delts. Build up your chest, delts, lats and arms while keeping your waist small


#28

Thanks a lot guys, I’ll do my best. This is gonna be my last question:

So with training and diet in check, if I get very strong on OHP, will I have relatively well developed side delts too?


#29

[quote]GetBigs wrote:
Thanks a lot guys, I’ll do my best. This is gonna be my last question:

So with training and diet in check, if I get very strong on OHP, will I have relatively well developed side delts too? [/quote]

Seriously!?


#30

[quote]GetBigs wrote:
Thanks a lot guys, I’ll do my best. This is gonna be my last question:

So with training and diet in check, if I get very strong on OHP, will I have relatively well developed side delts too? [/quote]

You have already asked this question. Are you meaning to re-ask it, or did you mean to ask a different question?

Specifically, is your goal to have a strong overhead press or well developed side delts?


#31

[quote]GetBigs wrote:
Thanks a lot guys, I’ll do my best. This is gonna be my last question:

So with training and diet in check, if I get very strong on OHP, will I have relatively well developed side delts too? [/quote]

You know what? I’ll just go ahead and say yes. Might as well, since you seem to only want a yes or no. My best OHP is 245. My best bench press is 375. My best deadlift is 585. And I can do a lot of pullups. If you can achieve these numbers, you’ll probably have similar delt development to me, as these are pretty much the only lifts I do to support delt growth.


#32

Flipcollar, were you being sarcastic or serious in terms of those exercises being the only ones done by yourself?


#33

[quote]GetBigs wrote:
Flipcollar, were you being sarcastic or serious in terms of those exercises being the only ones done by yourself?[/quote]

that was serious. You can read my training log on this site if you’re skeptical. Those are the only exercises I do that I believe are likely to contribute to shoulder growth.

I’ve done lateral raises maybe 5 times this year, so I can’t say I NEVER do them. But the things I listed I do every week. I do pullups everytime I go to the gym. And I actually have only done OHP one time since March. Mostly I bench press. Oh, and I forgot to mention I do dips. That’s probably not bad for shoulder development.


#34

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]GetBigs wrote:
Thanks a lot guys, I’ll do my best. This is gonna be my last question:

So with training and diet in check, if I get very strong on OHP, will I have relatively well developed side delts too? [/quote]

You know what? I’ll just go ahead and say yes. Might as well, since you seem to only want a yes or no. My best OHP is 245. My best bench press is 375. My best deadlift is 585. And I can do a lot of pullups. If you can achieve these numbers, you’ll probably have similar delt development to me, as these are pretty much the only lifts I do to support delt growth.[/quote]

and just to be a dick I’m going to say no.

I do no overhead pressing whatsoever and train my shoulders entirely with raises. They’re the best they’ve ever looked, way better than when I used the OHP


#35

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]GetBigs wrote:
Thanks a lot guys, I’ll do my best. This is gonna be my last question:

So with training and diet in check, if I get very strong on OHP, will I have relatively well developed side delts too? [/quote]

You know what? I’ll just go ahead and say yes. Might as well, since you seem to only want a yes or no. My best OHP is 245. My best bench press is 375. My best deadlift is 585. And I can do a lot of pullups. If you can achieve these numbers, you’ll probably have similar delt development to me, as these are pretty much the only lifts I do to support delt growth.[/quote]

and just to be a dick I’m going to say no.

I do no overhead pressing whatsoever and train my shoulders entirely with raises. They’re the best they’ve ever looked, way better than when I used the OHP[/quote]

Yea, you’re being a dick. :stuck_out_tongue:

OP, do whatever the fuck you want. Many things will work if you just focus on them. At your point, I would go with overhead pressing. Just stop asking inconsequential questions.


#36

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]GetBigs wrote:
Thanks a lot guys, I’ll do my best. This is gonna be my last question:

So with training and diet in check, if I get very strong on OHP, will I have relatively well developed side delts too? [/quote]

You know what? I’ll just go ahead and say yes. Might as well, since you seem to only want a yes or no. My best OHP is 245. My best bench press is 375. My best deadlift is 585. And I can do a lot of pullups. If you can achieve these numbers, you’ll probably have similar delt development to me, as these are pretty much the only lifts I do to support delt growth.[/quote]

and just to be a dick I’m going to say no.

I do no overhead pressing whatsoever and train my shoulders entirely with raises. They’re the best they’ve ever looked, way better than when I used the OHP[/quote]

I’ll also add in that I didn’t see much lateral delt development until I started doing raises. I had a 245lb strict overhead press, and really big front delts, but nothing for the sides.

It really didn’t take MUCH lateral delt training, just some. I still only do 3 sets once a week, but it’s enough.


#37

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]GetBigs wrote:
Thanks a lot guys, I’ll do my best. This is gonna be my last question:

So with training and diet in check, if I get very strong on OHP, will I have relatively well developed side delts too? [/quote]

You know what? I’ll just go ahead and say yes. Might as well, since you seem to only want a yes or no. My best OHP is 245. My best bench press is 375. My best deadlift is 585. And I can do a lot of pullups. If you can achieve these numbers, you’ll probably have similar delt development to me, as these are pretty much the only lifts I do to support delt growth.[/quote]

and just to be a dick I’m going to say no.

I do no overhead pressing whatsoever and train my shoulders entirely with raises. They’re the best they’ve ever looked, way better than when I used the OHP[/quote]

I should clarify. I was mostly suggesting if you reach truly big OHP numbers, you’ll probably end up with shoulders you can be proud of. I don’t see mid 200’s OHP’s very often in the first place, and I’ve never seen a guy do this with small delts.

I don’t think OHP is the best way to achieve this look. I just think it can work. Although it’s kind of a silly point, as others have mentioned. You’ll never see a guy with a 900 lbs squat and small legs, but that doesn’t mean you have to squat 900 to get big legs.


#38

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]GetBigs wrote:
Thanks a lot guys, I’ll do my best. This is gonna be my last question:

So with training and diet in check, if I get very strong on OHP, will I have relatively well developed side delts too? [/quote]

You know what? I’ll just go ahead and say yes. Might as well, since you seem to only want a yes or no. My best OHP is 245. My best bench press is 375. My best deadlift is 585. And I can do a lot of pullups. If you can achieve these numbers, you’ll probably have similar delt development to me, as these are pretty much the only lifts I do to support delt growth.[/quote]

and just to be a dick I’m going to say no.

I do no overhead pressing whatsoever and train my shoulders entirely with raises. They’re the best they’ve ever looked, way better than when I used the OHP[/quote]

I should clarify. I was mostly suggesting if you reach truly big OHP numbers, you’ll probably end up with shoulders you can be proud of. I don’t see mid 200’s OHP’s very often in the first place, and I’ve never seen a guy do this with small delts.

I don’t think OHP is the best way to achieve this look. I just think it can work. Although it’s kind of a silly point, as others have mentioned. You’ll never see a guy with a 900 lbs squat and small legs, but that doesn’t mean you have to squat 900 to get big legs.
[/quote]

I know, mate. I’m in full agreement with you


#39

In summary…

If you want to increase your OHP, increasing your OHP will get you there.

If you want to increase your side delts, increasing your OHP might help you get there, but it may not be the fastest path. You should probably consider various raises.


#40

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]GetBigs wrote:
Thanks a lot guys, I’ll do my best. This is gonna be my last question:

So with training and diet in check, if I get very strong on OHP, will I have relatively well developed side delts too? [/quote]

You know what? I’ll just go ahead and say yes. Might as well, since you seem to only want a yes or no. My best OHP is 245. My best bench press is 375. My best deadlift is 585. And I can do a lot of pullups. If you can achieve these numbers, you’ll probably have similar delt development to me, as these are pretty much the only lifts I do to support delt growth.[/quote]

and just to be a dick I’m going to say no.

I do no overhead pressing whatsoever and train my shoulders entirely with raises. They’re the best they’ve ever looked, way better than when I used the OHP[/quote]

I should clarify. I was mostly suggesting if you reach truly big OHP numbers, you’ll probably end up with shoulders you can be proud of. I don’t see mid 200’s OHP’s very often in the first place, and I’ve never seen a guy do this with small delts.

I don’t think OHP is the best way to achieve this look. I just think it can work. Although it’s kind of a silly point, as others have mentioned. You’ll never see a guy with a 900 lbs squat and small legs, but that doesn’t mean you have to squat 900 to get big legs.
[/quote]

I know, mate. I’m in full agreement with you[/quote]

Crap. I was hoping for a pillow fight.