T Nation

Why Wait to do HGH?


#1

Good morning folks, my question is why wait to do a cycle of HGH?

I'll explain a little bit about where I'm coming from. I've worked out seriously for about 4 years, I started at 175 and am now 215. I never used steroids until a few months ago, and since then have lost any of the gains made during the the cycle(15lbs/test cycle).

My desired weight is about 225-235, so again, my question is why not do a cycle of GH right now?

The money/time isn't an issue, I don't need immediate gains. I found the cycle of test I did, fucked with me mentally and I'm not interested in doing another. I always read people saying, "don't do GH until you've tapped out all of your options physically with test," I'm wondering why?

Also, I'm 30 years old, 6'2"


#2

Does your goal require GH to accomplish it? I don't see why you would need GH if your goal is only 10-20 more lbs. I am not opposing it, simply trying to understand your thinking here.

How exactly did the test fuck with you mentally?


#3

Hi Teezy.This hgh you think so highly of is no miracle elixir and ergogenic muscle builder. Test is a $less expensive and way more affective solution,also REal HGH,not the Blue.REd,or yellow tops that cost $200 for 100I.U's this is fake.. The pharma grade Eli-Lilly 5mg vial/15 i.u's sell's at the pharmacy for $275.00..
I am on hgh and my insurance pay's big buck's for it??? I took up to 5 I.U.'s a day and now take 3 i.u's This drug in my experience may of helped with a little fat loss,but not much else.One more important Note: Running hgh on it's own will give (YOU ZERO RESULT"S)
Hgh may work for 70yr old frail men,but for healthy people it's a waste of money,and the Chinese less 4expensive is all fake,so is the other FRagment peptides. the truth john


#4

German, thanks for the reply. I've read that other people have had success with HGH to reach a new set point with their weight. I've also read that most results gained from GH aren't lost, that's really what has me interested.

I also left out that I made all of my gains in the first two years, then plateaued. I wont get in to what I eat(unless someone really wants to know), but trust me it is more than enough, and it's clean. I'm also a hard gainer with an ecto body to boot.

As for the test messing with me mentally, basically my temper was way too short. Typically I'm a pretty relaxed guy, but the test brought back an older version of myself, I'd rather do without. Anyone else I've talked to, didn't seem to have the same issues with it. One buddy mentioned that it might of been the brand/blend of test. It was fimea 400, if anyone knows about it??


#5

Can you explain why it has zero results when used by itself as opposed to when stacked with something else?


#6

I personally got result's from testosterone enanthate @200mg's ml,as for the hgh? Why don't you just give it a try? .I was all excited when I was rx at first 5-i.u's 3xper week,then 3i.u's 5x per week. I bought the book :Grow Young with HGH By DR Ronald Klatz.My friend I am not trying to be argumentative but according to Bro-Science and the so-called bodybuilding writer's they all say use hgh,Insulin and cytomel,along with anabolic steroids.I guess it's a synergistic cocktail. But do your own research.Do a cycle of just hgh and we can compare notes.all the best john


#7

Unlikely the blend would have anything to do with the short temper. Test is not the only option though so maybe consider adding another compound and reduce the test to 150-250/W. What was your last cycle?


#8

It was 16 weeks:
weeks 1-4, 150 twice/week(Tues and Fri)
weeks 5-8, 200 " "
weeks 9-12, 250 " "
week 13, 200, " "
week 14, 200, " "
week 15, 150, " "
week 16, 150, " "

(no PCT)

What other compound would you recommend adding with a low dose of test?


#9

Deca sounds like your best bet.


#10

I'll look into it, thanks.


#11

Hi John, I originally didn't see this reply. Do you know if you kept more of your test gains while on GH? Another issue I have with test, is I lost all of my gains 6 weeks after the cycle.


#12

^uhm, maybe plan on doing PCT next time, and you'll be surprised how much you'll retain from the cycle...


#13

Hgh by itself, without test or insulin you'll basically experience fat loss and feel like a million bucks. You wont be breaking any PR's, getting over any plateau's or experiencing any wild pumps.

Ive used it a few times, I had a lot of injuries from more extreme sports, not so much body building, and I thank hgh for healing all of it, keeping me feeling good in the gym and I use it when coming off or cruising off a big cycle to maintain my gains and strength longer.
It all depends how you take, when you take it, and how much.

Lately instead of the normal 2 or 3iu's mon-fri in the morning I've switched to 5iu's split up on workout days, sorta like BBB's protocol, and I'm loving it. I'm doing 2.5iu's in the morning, and 2.5 iu's pre WO.... M,T,T,F... Been off a big cycle of 750 mg/wk test, and 450mg/NPP/wk for 5 weeks now...was at 215 lbs also, down to 209 lbs and cut with all my strength remaining so far....


#14

Well shit. That's your problem right there. No PCT is a dumb fucking thing to do my friend. Let me guess, you also didn't use any arimidex or other anti-estrgoen? FYI, as far as testosterone is concerned short temper, mental issues, and depression is due to fluctuation in estrogen levels not the androgen itself. These manifest at all points along your cycle but most noticeable in post cycle time for many people because now your test production is gone.

I don't post much in these forums but this is an easy eaaaasy fix to your problem, or at least much of it if not all of it.

Regarding hGH, if time and money aren't an issue and you have already decided to try it then I'm not going to try to talk you down. You're 30, and an adult. I will say however, two things. 1) if you are looking for rapid gains in bodyweight don't use GH by itself without androgens. If you are fine with slow gains, sort of like an enhanced natural trainee then you could swing that. 2) if you are looking for good results in mesomorphic type way (meaning strength, muscle, etc), then whoever posted 5 iu 3x a week is about twice as low as it needs to be...meaning your usage will skyrocket 10 iu x3-4 days a week....IF you use the IM and IV injection multiple times a day method. If you use the traditional sub q daily route it is gonna be waaaay more and waaay more expensive, like 50+ius a week.

If, on the other hand, you are looking for a bit of fat loss, feeling of well being, and increased resilience against injury and tendon issues, then something along the lines of 3iu a day (like baseball pitcher Roger Clemens) is in line with your goals. but you likely will not notice any strength boosts or notable muscle gains...like I mentioned "natural training plus".


#15

That sounds pretty much spot on... HGH isnt a miricle drug it is great for healing, anti aging and has benifits for getting bigger stronger but HGH alone wont make you huge.. Im running it now 3-5ius per day to help speed up surgery repair.. I run it all year anyhow with TRT Id say the T is the best bang for the buck when it comes to size & strength...

Question...when you say 5iu 3x a week will skyrocket to 10iu what do you mean? Isnt the most common use og HGH 4iu 5/2? Bushido Bad Boy on here said the best use of HGH was to take your daily dose x3 E3D IM I took that to be for body building though.. Where as the daily use is for general health


#16

BBB's advice there was further expounded into a protocol that was essentially EOD ish rather than strictly e3d. But you are right--his advixe was geared towards bodybuilding rather than general health and tendon repair. That's the reason I gave both choices, because I couldn't tell if the OP was looking for health/fat loss or bodybuilding sans AAS since he says he doesn't like how it affects him mentally.

However, when the protocol was refined further by BBB he himself was the one that suggested 10iu per day "on", broken into 4 ish doses, utilizing both IV and IM routes (preference to IV iirc). Times were essentially morning first thing after waking, pre and immediately post workout, and one other time in the day but never closer than 2 hours together unless workout time. Many decided to try 4x a week every other week (which is essentially strictly eod).

The doses for "normal" gH use for bodybuilding are usually in the range of 10-15iu ed, or ed 5/2 and shot subq. This is retarded imo but that is still what many many people who are serious or competitive bbers use.

Also It should be noted I don't use it personally. I do, however, know a number of people that do and who use either method.


#17

...Also I'm a research chemist by trade so I nerd out about this stuff. :stuck_out_tongue:


#18

Don't want to hijack the thread but, what do you think of peptides? GHRP-6 + CJC. I have read that taking 3x a day saturation dose (100mcg) can be the equivalent of 5iu GH I have seen lower and higher but, that is the avg. Possible? For one looking into better skin, hair, nails and overall well being would it be worth it? The price is right.


#19

3-5iu per day HGH 5/2 is fine for skin nails well being.. Honestly I think 3 is fine for that but give it 4-6 months.. HGH is a slow boat to china

Araragon - 10-15iu of HGH ed would be insanley expensive.. Also your joints would feel like shit.. I've played around with my HGH over the last year and I personally like 4iu 1st thing in the AM SQ.. I think being that HGH is such slow thing any of these protocals would take 3-6 months to notice the diff between each other unless you are increasing total amount of GH in a week


#20

Well, one of many reasons that BBB began pushing IV administration is that the side effects are less than sub q administration for a given quality of GH brand/origin. IV and IM are much much better in regards to side effects than sub q, and in fact the entire reason that BBB explained a 3x daily dose to be necessary was due to the route of administration--going sub q essentially completely devoids his protocol of all benefit.

Also, when you're talking about GH for bodybuilding, you're talking insanely expensive anyways so it's a moot point. 10 iu 3x a week is a lot cheaper than 10-15 iu 5/2, yet people--many people--do the latter in serious bodybuilding. That being said, 3 months is a fast time for gH benefits to be seen so if you can get the equivalent result in 3 months that would take you 6 months at a higher ED sub q dosage to get, well....probably a winner.

sub q is complete shit for bodybuilding, although for the low grade repair and health benefits it seems to be good.