[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Im 38 and have been on TRT for three years, not going to have any more kids and for all intents and purposes am settled down.
I am very tempted to go on AAS, the main things holding me back are…
-Mental and emotional state while on. I am very wary of how I am mentally / emotionally and am unsure if this may bring out the worst in me.
I have an addictive personality, I would say there is a vg chance a basic test cycle may eventually not be good enough and will become a walking chemistry set.
What if life circumstances change and I am unable to support my AAS usage.
I did want to achieve certain strength goals naturally (I know Im on TRT, but thats for another argument/thread) and now with having nerve damage they may never be realized.
[/quote]
Dude what are you waiting for? You already have a TRT script, just get some more test from somewhere and up your cruising dose to something more badass. If circumstances ever dictate you can no longer support your AAS usage, no big deal, just go back to the TRT dose. You don’t have to mess around with anything fancy. It’d just be like bigger TRT.[/quote]
Haha now that the “I’ll lose all my gains once I go off” myth has been squashed, are you ready to inject ?
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Im 38 and have been on TRT for three years, not going to have any more kids and for all intents and purposes am settled down.
I am very tempted to go on AAS, the main things holding me back are…
-Mental and emotional state while on. I am very wary of how I am mentally / emotionally and am unsure if this may bring out the worst in me.
I have an addictive personality, I would say there is a vg chance a basic test cycle may eventually not be good enough and will become a walking chemistry set.
What if life circumstances change and I am unable to support my AAS usage.
I did want to achieve certain strength goals naturally (I know Im on TRT, but thats for another argument/thread) and now with having nerve damage they may never be realized.
[/quote]
Dude what are you waiting for? You already have a TRT script, just get some more test from somewhere and up your cruising dose to something more badass. If circumstances ever dictate you can no longer support your AAS usage, no big deal, just go back to the TRT dose. You don’t have to mess around with anything fancy. It’d just be like bigger TRT.[/quote]
Haha now that the “I’ll lose all my gains once I go off” myth has been squashed, are you ready to inject ? ;)[/quote]
No I’m still not convinced by that 100%. I’m not ready to do it in my situation, but like I said, if I were in Matty’s situation you bet your ass I’d be pinning.
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Im 38 and have been on TRT for three years, not going to have any more kids and for all intents and purposes am settled down.
I am very tempted to go on AAS, the main things holding me back are…
-Mental and emotional state while on. I am very wary of how I am mentally / emotionally and am unsure if this may bring out the worst in me.
I have an addictive personality, I would say there is a vg chance a basic test cycle may eventually not be good enough and will become a walking chemistry set.
What if life circumstances change and I am unable to support my AAS usage.
I did want to achieve certain strength goals naturally (I know Im on TRT, but thats for another argument/thread) and now with having nerve damage they may never be realized.
[/quote]
Dude what are you waiting for? You already have a TRT script, just get some more test from somewhere and up your cruising dose to something more badass. If circumstances ever dictate you can no longer support your AAS usage, no big deal, just go back to the TRT dose. You don’t have to mess around with anything fancy. It’d just be like bigger TRT.[/quote]
This is exactly what I say to myself every day lol…
[/quote]
If you don’t have a mild temperament pre-AAS, I’d be hesistant. WF talks about how he’s naturally a little hot headed so AAS just made it worse for him.
[/quote]
I haven’t really heard guys talk about temperament issues just from test though. A moderate dose of test won’t turn you into a fiend. Although if you start adding in tren or halotestin or something, then yea you might go full on Mr. Hyde lol.
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Im 38 and have been on TRT for three years, not going to have any more kids and for all intents and purposes am settled down.
I am very tempted to go on AAS, the main things holding me back are…
-Mental and emotional state while on. I am very wary of how I am mentally / emotionally and am unsure if this may bring out the worst in me.
I have an addictive personality, I would say there is a vg chance a basic test cycle may eventually not be good enough and will become a walking chemistry set.
What if life circumstances change and I am unable to support my AAS usage.
I did want to achieve certain strength goals naturally (I know Im on TRT, but thats for another argument/thread) and now with having nerve damage they may never be realized.
[/quote]
Dude what are you waiting for? You already have a TRT script, just get some more test from somewhere and up your cruising dose to something more badass. If circumstances ever dictate you can no longer support your AAS usage, no big deal, just go back to the TRT dose. You don’t have to mess around with anything fancy. It’d just be like bigger TRT.[/quote]
This is exactly what I say to myself every day lol…
[/quote]
If you don’t have a mild temperament pre-AAS, I’d be hesistant. WF talks about how he’s naturally a little hot headed so AAS just made it worse for him.
[/quote]
I haven’t really heard guys talk about temperament issues just from test though. A moderate dose of test won’t turn you into a fiend. Although if you start adding in tren or halotestin or something, then yea you might go full on Mr. Hyde lol.[/quote]
Thats the key…do we consider Test as the gateway drug of DA ROIDS???
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Im 38 and have been on TRT for three years, not going to have any more kids and for all intents and purposes am settled down.
I am very tempted to go on AAS, the main things holding me back are…
-Mental and emotional state while on. I am very wary of how I am mentally / emotionally and am unsure if this may bring out the worst in me.
I have an addictive personality, I would say there is a vg chance a basic test cycle may eventually not be good enough and will become a walking chemistry set.
What if life circumstances change and I am unable to support my AAS usage.
I did want to achieve certain strength goals naturally (I know Im on TRT, but thats for another argument/thread) and now with having nerve damage they may never be realized.
[/quote]
Dude what are you waiting for? You already have a TRT script, just get some more test from somewhere and up your cruising dose to something more badass. If circumstances ever dictate you can no longer support your AAS usage, no big deal, just go back to the TRT dose. You don’t have to mess around with anything fancy. It’d just be like bigger TRT.[/quote]
This is exactly what I say to myself every day lol…
[/quote]
If you don’t have a mild temperament pre-AAS, I’d be hesistant. WF talks about how he’s naturally a little hot headed so AAS just made it worse for him.I still remember that body check on the street thread you made lol.
On the other side of the coin, each substance has different effects and you can test stuff to see what works best for you. Furthermore, you’re on TRT so you’re not going to do PCT which eliminates a major source of mood swings.
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Im 38 and have been on TRT for three years, not going to have any more kids and for all intents and purposes am settled down.
I am very tempted to go on AAS, the main things holding me back are…
-Mental and emotional state while on. I am very wary of how I am mentally / emotionally and am unsure if this may bring out the worst in me.
I have an addictive personality, I would say there is a vg chance a basic test cycle may eventually not be good enough and will become a walking chemistry set.
What if life circumstances change and I am unable to support my AAS usage.
I did want to achieve certain strength goals naturally (I know Im on TRT, but thats for another argument/thread) and now with having nerve damage they may never be realized.
[/quote]
Dude what are you waiting for? You already have a TRT script, just get some more test from somewhere and up your cruising dose to something more badass. If circumstances ever dictate you can no longer support your AAS usage, no big deal, just go back to the TRT dose. You don’t have to mess around with anything fancy. It’d just be like bigger TRT.[/quote]
This is exactly what I say to myself every day lol…
[/quote]
If you don’t have a mild temperament pre-AAS, I’d be hesistant. WF talks about how he’s naturally a little hot headed so AAS just made it worse for him.
[/quote]
I haven’t really heard guys talk about temperament issues just from test though. A moderate dose of test won’t turn you into a fiend. Although if you start adding in tren or halotestin or something, then yea you might go full on Mr. Hyde lol.[/quote]
I have done some fairly high doses of tren combined with other things and I got a little moodier at times, but nothing like going enraging HULK MODE and smashing kids faces.
Mostly just more irritable especially when tired or hungry.
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Im 38 and have been on TRT for three years, not going to have any more kids and for all intents and purposes am settled down.
I am very tempted to go on AAS, the main things holding me back are…
-Mental and emotional state while on. I am very wary of how I am mentally / emotionally and am unsure if this may bring out the worst in me.
I have an addictive personality, I would say there is a vg chance a basic test cycle may eventually not be good enough and will become a walking chemistry set.
What if life circumstances change and I am unable to support my AAS usage.
I did want to achieve certain strength goals naturally (I know Im on TRT, but thats for another argument/thread) and now with having nerve damage they may never be realized.
[/quote]
Dude what are you waiting for? You already have a TRT script, just get some more test from somewhere and up your cruising dose to something more badass. If circumstances ever dictate you can no longer support your AAS usage, no big deal, just go back to the TRT dose. You don’t have to mess around with anything fancy. It’d just be like bigger TRT.[/quote]
This is exactly what I say to myself every day lol…
[/quote]
If you don’t have a mild temperament pre-AAS, I’d be hesistant. WF talks about how he’s naturally a little hot headed so AAS just made it worse for him.
[/quote]
I haven’t really heard guys talk about temperament issues just from test though. A moderate dose of test won’t turn you into a fiend. Although if you start adding in tren or halotestin or something, then yea you might go full on Mr. Hyde lol.[/quote]
Thats the key…do we consider Test as the gateway drug of DA ROIDS???[/quote]
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Im 38 and have been on TRT for three years, not going to have any more kids and for all intents and purposes am settled down.
I am very tempted to go on AAS, the main things holding me back are…
-Mental and emotional state while on. I am very wary of how I am mentally / emotionally and am unsure if this may bring out the worst in me.
I have an addictive personality, I would say there is a vg chance a basic test cycle may eventually not be good enough and will become a walking chemistry set.
What if life circumstances change and I am unable to support my AAS usage.
I did want to achieve certain strength goals naturally (I know Im on TRT, but thats for another argument/thread) and now with having nerve damage they may never be realized.
[/quote]
Dude what are you waiting for? You already have a TRT script, just get some more test from somewhere and up your cruising dose to something more badass. If circumstances ever dictate you can no longer support your AAS usage, no big deal, just go back to the TRT dose. You don’t have to mess around with anything fancy. It’d just be like bigger TRT.[/quote]
This is exactly what I say to myself every day lol…
[/quote]
If you don’t have a mild temperament pre-AAS, I’d be hesistant. WF talks about how he’s naturally a little hot headed so AAS just made it worse for him.
[/quote]
I haven’t really heard guys talk about temperament issues just from test though. A moderate dose of test won’t turn you into a fiend. Although if you start adding in tren or halotestin or something, then yea you might go full on Mr. Hyde lol.[/quote]
Let your estrogen to crazy and yeah ya might. Roid rage has been studied and found to come from estrogen levels not the roid levels
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Im 38 and have been on TRT for three years, not going to have any more kids and for all intents and purposes am settled down.
I am very tempted to go on AAS, the main things holding me back are…
-Mental and emotional state while on. I am very wary of how I am mentally / emotionally and am unsure if this may bring out the worst in me.
I have an addictive personality, I would say there is a vg chance a basic test cycle may eventually not be good enough and will become a walking chemistry set.
What if life circumstances change and I am unable to support my AAS usage.
I did want to achieve certain strength goals naturally (I know Im on TRT, but thats for another argument/thread) and now with having nerve damage they may never be realized.
[/quote]
Dude what are you waiting for? You already have a TRT script, just get some more test from somewhere and up your cruising dose to something more badass. If circumstances ever dictate you can no longer support your AAS usage, no big deal, just go back to the TRT dose. You don’t have to mess around with anything fancy. It’d just be like bigger TRT.[/quote]
This is exactly what I say to myself every day lol…
[/quote]
If you don’t have a mild temperament pre-AAS, I’d be hesistant. WF talks about how he’s naturally a little hot headed so AAS just made it worse for him.
[/quote]
I haven’t really heard guys talk about temperament issues just from test though. A moderate dose of test won’t turn you into a fiend. Although if you start adding in tren or halotestin or something, then yea you might go full on Mr. Hyde lol.[/quote]
Let your estrogen to crazy and yeah ya might. Roid rage has been studied and found to come from estrogen levels not the roid levels [/quote]
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
What reasons do you have that you want to use? More muscle/strength is great, but for what reasons?[/quote]
This is the key question, IMO. It’s entirely within just about anyone’s reach to be lean and muscular naturally. So why, apart from competition do people do it? Overall it doesn’t get you anything aside from potential health ramifications. No more respect, pussy, quality of life or happiness is going to come from using. Some may say more self esteem due to looking better. But self esteem tied to looking a certain way (especially via juicy fruit) is a pretty shaky thing to begin with.
If someone’s really settled with doing it, I’d say write down everything you hope and expect to happen, or any insecurities you want it to ameliorate, and go do it for a couple of months. Then check back with that list. I predict you’ll find that nothing has really changed. Cause the people who are cool and using… they were just as cool before it as well. It’s just a small addition to their already developed character and lifestyle, and not something that defines them. They weren’t the ones who wanted to “fix” or “enhance” themselves with roids. Just my view.
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Im 38 and have been on TRT for three years, not going to have any more kids and for all intents and purposes am settled down.
I am very tempted to go on AAS, the main things holding me back are…
-Mental and emotional state while on. I am very wary of how I am mentally / emotionally and am unsure if this may bring out the worst in me.
I have an addictive personality, I would say there is a vg chance a basic test cycle may eventually not be good enough and will become a walking chemistry set.
What if life circumstances change and I am unable to support my AAS usage.
I did want to achieve certain strength goals naturally (I know Im on TRT, but thats for another argument/thread) and now with having nerve damage they may never be realized.
[/quote]
Dude what are you waiting for? You already have a TRT script, just get some more test from somewhere and up your cruising dose to something more badass. If circumstances ever dictate you can no longer support your AAS usage, no big deal, just go back to the TRT dose. You don’t have to mess around with anything fancy. It’d just be like bigger TRT.[/quote]
This is exactly what I say to myself every day lol…
[/quote]
If you don’t have a mild temperament pre-AAS, I’d be hesistant. WF talks about how he’s naturally a little hot headed so AAS just made it worse for him.
[/quote]
I haven’t really heard guys talk about temperament issues just from test though. A moderate dose of test won’t turn you into a fiend. Although if you start adding in tren or halotestin or something, then yea you might go full on Mr. Hyde lol.[/quote]
Let your estrogen to crazy and yeah ya might. Roid rage has been studied and found to come from estrogen levels not the roid levels [/quote]
Elevating T will elevate E
[/quote]
Not if you’re doing right and if you truly think that rethink running anything
Show me a person that has already demostrated the potential to earn big $$ for some special gift that may be enhanced by the use of PEDs and maybe I’ll consider listening; but otherwise, I just don’t get it. It’s what motivates an everyday 9-5ver to cross that line that confuses me…seems artificial. Like a toupe. I’ve been around the iron for 28 years, I’ve seen over 100 athletes/lifters/bodybuilders head down that road, I know 4 of them that are still training.
IMO…even TRT is bullshit unless your meatloafs. I suppose as long as a person is honest, I support their efforts. I certainly don’t under-value the effort and ‘at the moment in time’ dedication of those that chose that route; I know better than that. It’s just always seemed like a short term solution to a long term problem to me.
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Im 38 and have been on TRT for three years, not going to have any more kids and for all intents and purposes am settled down.
I am very tempted to go on AAS, the main things holding me back are…
-Mental and emotional state while on. I am very wary of how I am mentally / emotionally and am unsure if this may bring out the worst in me.
I have an addictive personality, I would say there is a vg chance a basic test cycle may eventually not be good enough and will become a walking chemistry set.
What if life circumstances change and I am unable to support my AAS usage.
I did want to achieve certain strength goals naturally (I know Im on TRT, but thats for another argument/thread) and now with having nerve damage they may never be realized.
[/quote]
Dude what are you waiting for? You already have a TRT script, just get some more test from somewhere and up your cruising dose to something more badass. If circumstances ever dictate you can no longer support your AAS usage, no big deal, just go back to the TRT dose. You don’t have to mess around with anything fancy. It’d just be like bigger TRT.[/quote]
This is exactly what I say to myself every day lol…
[/quote]
If you don’t have a mild temperament pre-AAS, I’d be hesistant. WF talks about how he’s naturally a little hot headed so AAS just made it worse for him.
[/quote]
I haven’t really heard guys talk about temperament issues just from test though. A moderate dose of test won’t turn you into a fiend. Although if you start adding in tren or halotestin or something, then yea you might go full on Mr. Hyde lol.[/quote]
Let your estrogen to crazy and yeah ya might. Roid rage has been studied and found to come from estrogen levels not the roid levels [/quote]
Elevating T will elevate E
[/quote]
Not if you’re doing right and if you truly think that rethink running anything[/quote]
Yes that’s what I truly think. I read it in the TRT stickies but also:
"Many uninformed physicians think that treating low Testosterone (T) is as simple as writing a script for T and calling it a day. Unfortunately, this is just the beginning.
As T levels go up, so will estrogen (E) levels. If measures aren’t being taken to control E then you’re really just spinning your wheels, because higher E levels will cancel out many of the benefits of higher T levels."
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
Show me a person that has already demostrated the potential to earn big $$ for some special gift that may be enhanced by the use of PEDs and maybe I’ll consider listening; but otherwise, I just don’t get it. It’s what motivates an everyday 9-5ver to cross that line that confuses me…seems artificial. Like a toupe. I’ve been around the iron for 28 years, I’ve seen over 100 athletes/lifters/bodybuilders head down that road, I know 4 of them that are still training. IMO…even TRT is bullshit unless your meatloafs. I suppose as long as a person is honest, I support their efforts. I certainly don’t under-value the effort and ‘at the moment in time’ dedication of those that chose that route; I know better than that. It’s just always seemed like a short term solution to a long term problem to me. [/quote]
As one who has crossed that line, I really can’t understand your viewpoint much. Although I will say the way I viewed gear before taking it has drastically changed. Merely another supplement that actually works. And no amount of gear can make up for genetics, literally no matter how much you take.
And I completely respect your view mine is just about the opposite haha. Maybe because most of my close circle of friends jooce too.
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Im 38 and have been on TRT for three years, not going to have any more kids and for all intents and purposes am settled down.
I am very tempted to go on AAS, the main things holding me back are…
-Mental and emotional state while on. I am very wary of how I am mentally / emotionally and am unsure if this may bring out the worst in me.
I have an addictive personality, I would say there is a vg chance a basic test cycle may eventually not be good enough and will become a walking chemistry set.
What if life circumstances change and I am unable to support my AAS usage.
I did want to achieve certain strength goals naturally (I know Im on TRT, but thats for another argument/thread) and now with having nerve damage they may never be realized.
[/quote]
Dude what are you waiting for? You already have a TRT script, just get some more test from somewhere and up your cruising dose to something more badass. If circumstances ever dictate you can no longer support your AAS usage, no big deal, just go back to the TRT dose. You don’t have to mess around with anything fancy. It’d just be like bigger TRT.[/quote]
This is exactly what I say to myself every day lol…
[/quote]
If you don’t have a mild temperament pre-AAS, I’d be hesistant. WF talks about how he’s naturally a little hot headed so AAS just made it worse for him.
[/quote]
I haven’t really heard guys talk about temperament issues just from test though. A moderate dose of test won’t turn you into a fiend. Although if you start adding in tren or halotestin or something, then yea you might go full on Mr. Hyde lol.[/quote]
Let your estrogen to crazy and yeah ya might. Roid rage has been studied and found to come from estrogen levels not the roid levels [/quote]
Elevating T will elevate E
[/quote]
Not if you’re doing right and if you truly think that rethink running anything[/quote]
Yes that’s what I truly think. I read it in the TRT stickies but also:
"Many uninformed physicians think that treating low Testosterone (T) is as simple as writing a script for T and calling it a day. Unfortunately, this is just the beginning.
As T levels go up, so will estrogen (E) levels. If measures aren’t being taken to control E then you’re really just spinning your wheels, because higher E levels will cancel out many of the benefits of higher T levels."
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
Show me a person that has already demostrated the potential to earn big $$ for some special gift that may be enhanced by the use of PEDs and maybe I’ll consider listening; but otherwise, I just don’t get it. It’s what motivates an everyday 9-5ver to cross that line that confuses me…seems artificial. Like a toupe. I’ve been around the iron for 28 years, I’ve seen over 100 athletes/lifters/bodybuilders head down that road, I know 4 of them that are still training. IMO…even TRT is bullshit unless your meatloafs. I suppose as long as a person is honest, I support their efforts. I certainly don’t under-value the effort and ‘at the moment in time’ dedication of those that chose that route; I know better than that. It’s just always seemed like a short term solution to a long term problem to me. [/quote]
As one who has crossed that line, I really can’t understand your viewpoint much. Although I will say the way I viewed gear before taking it has drastically changed. Merely another supplement that actually works. And no amount of gear can make up for genetics, literally no matter how much you take.
And I completely respect your view mine is just about the opposite haha. Maybe because most of my close circle of friends jooce too.[/quote]
BC I respect you opinion but seems your basing it off a few people who weren’t in the game for the long run
As b said they are just another supp. That nutrishop new amazing supp that actually works. Train harder. Train more. Recover more. Sounds like fun. Great way to enhance the enjoyment of a hobby you love
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
Show me a person that has already demostrated the potential to earn big $$ for some special gift that may be enhanced by the use of PEDs and maybe I’ll consider listening; but otherwise, I just don’t get it. It’s what motivates an everyday 9-5ver to cross that line that confuses me…seems artificial. Like a toupe. I’ve been around the iron for 28 years, I’ve seen over 100 athletes/lifters/bodybuilders head down that road, I know 4 of them that are still training.
IMO…even TRT is bullshit unless your meatloafs. I suppose as long as a person is honest, I support their efforts. I certainly don’t under-value the effort and ‘at the moment in time’ dedication of those that chose that route; I know better than that. It’s just always seemed like a short term solution to a long term problem to me. [/quote]
Yup. This is where the idea of being as strong as possible can take on different meanings. I want to be as strong as I possibly can as a LIFE LONG aggregate. If I’m still lifting when I’m 70, I’ll bet I’m going to be stronger in the total than most of the guys I know juicing and out lifting me now. Strength for life requires the pursuit of health sometimes at the expense of immediate strength.
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
Show me a person that has already demostrated the potential to earn big $$ for some special gift that may be enhanced by the use of PEDs and maybe I’ll consider listening; but otherwise, I just don’t get it. It’s what motivates an everyday 9-5ver to cross that line that confuses me…seems artificial. Like a toupe. I’ve been around the iron for 28 years, I’ve seen over 100 athletes/lifters/bodybuilders head down that road, I know 4 of them that are still training.
IMO…even TRT is bullshit unless your meatloafs. I suppose as long as a person is honest, I support their efforts. I certainly don’t under-value the effort and ‘at the moment in time’ dedication of those that chose that route; I know better than that. It’s just always seemed like a short term solution to a long term problem to me. [/quote]
Yup. This is where the idea of being as strong as possible can take on different meanings. I want to be as strong as I possibly can as a LIFE LONG aggregate. If I’m still lifting when I’m 70, I’ll bet I’m going to be stronger in the total than most of the guys I know juicing and out lifting me now. Strength for life requires the pursuit of health sometimes at the expense of immediate strength.[/quote]
Don’t generalize so much. Not everyone that uses isn’t in it for a life long endeavor. Not everyone that uses throws their health out the window. Just saying
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
Show me a person that has already demostrated the potential to earn big $$ for some special gift that may be enhanced by the use of PEDs and maybe I’ll consider listening; but otherwise, I just don’t get it. It’s what motivates an everyday 9-5ver to cross that line that confuses me…seems artificial. Like a toupe. I’ve been around the iron for 28 years, I’ve seen over 100 athletes/lifters/bodybuilders head down that road, I know 4 of them that are still training.
IMO…even TRT is bullshit unless your meatloafs. I suppose as long as a person is honest, I support their efforts. I certainly don’t under-value the effort and ‘at the moment in time’ dedication of those that chose that route; I know better than that. It’s just always seemed like a short term solution to a long term problem to me. [/quote]
Yup. This is where the idea of being as strong as possible can take on different meanings. I want to be as strong as I possibly can as a LIFE LONG aggregate. If I’m still lifting when I’m 70, I’ll bet I’m going to be stronger in the total than most of the guys I know juicing and out lifting me now. Strength for life requires the pursuit of health sometimes at the expense of immediate strength.[/quote]
Don’t generalize so much. Not everyone that uses isn’t in it for a life long endeavor. Not everyone that uses throws their health out the window. Just saying [/quote]
I neither said nor meant using was throwing your health away. Just noted that there can be a big difference when evaluating goals on long and short term scales.
