Why Stay Natural?

Bigger Stronger Leaner
304

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:
If you stay natural, you are a pussy.

There I said it.

Come at me natural bros.[/quote]

I’d say that statement took some huge balls, but coming from a juicer it would seem that I’d be wrong.[/quote]

Nah, you can have tiny balls and pretend they are big on the interwebs.

Oh and I am all natural just like Ronnie Coleman.[/quote]

You can pretend they are big in real life too.

And duh on Ronnie. He was a cop. They have to take drug tests. Besides, cops can’t do illegal things.

305

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]Ecchastang wrote:
As long as you are honest about your accomplishments, do what you want. Don’t claim a 400 bench when in reality you have a bench shirt, don’t claim it when in reality you are drug assisted. [/quote]

So accomplishments don’t count once you use? Better to tell all Olympic athletes and pros they don’t count [/quote]
Accomplishments do count, but don’t mislead. Back to my examples, I have heard people say they benched 450, but left off the fact that they were in a titan bench shirt. Or someone say they did 30 pullups, but they were kipping, not strict. Both are accomplishments, but different. lifting drug free and drug assisted are different animals.

306

What about the juicing side effect of gynocomastia? An acquaintance of mine is a plastic surgery nurse (mostly boobs). She told me not too long ago that reduction surgeries in males due to the gynocomastia side effects of increased steroid usage is becoming big business.

307

[quote]kpsnap wrote:
What about the juicing side effect of gynocomastia? An acquaintance of mine is a plastic surgery nurse (mostly boobs). She told me not too long ago that reduction surgeries in males due to the gynocomastia side effects of increased steroid usage is becoming big business. [/quote]

Don’t be and idiot if you make the decision to use. It’s easily avoidable. Along with the “rage” liver issues bp issues ect. Read for years. Learn everything then learn some more

308

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:
If you stay natural, you are a pussy.

There I said it.

Come at me natural bros.[/quote]

I’d say that statement took some huge balls, but coming from a juicer it would seem that I’d be wrong.[/quote]

Nah, you can have tiny balls and pretend they are big on the interwebs.

Oh and I am all natural just like Ronnie Coleman.[/quote]

Unless you are doing some super deep fun abstract sex I don’t believe the balls actually go in. So as long as the dick doesn’t shrink small balls is ok

309

In my experience, most people who ask the question are not ready. “Assistance” is what the “great” do to become “elite”. It you’re asking the question of “should I or shouldn’t I” I guarantee you’re not ready.
I have remained natural because I’ve never had problems maxing out my own genetic potential and work ethic. But then I’m just a recreational strongman, not someone staring down endorsements and records.

IMO most people who ask about anabolics are looking for a shortcut to get to where work ethic and years of training should get them anyway. It’s all about the journey and the sacrifice. But if you’re a great lifter – a powerlifter or bodybuilder looking at endorsements, records and championships then anabolics are what champions do to become immortals and I will never second guess your drive to be the best.

310

[quote]kpsnap wrote:
(mostly boobs)[/quote]

I read all thirteen pages of this damn thread and this is the best part yet.

311

What happens if you start using too “soon”?

There’s so much talk about whether or not you’re “ready”, but what happens if you do it anyway… assuming, let’s say, you’re 23-25.

Is there anything particularly wrong with that?

312

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]Pantherhare wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]Pantherhare wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

Beginner gains. Enjoy[/quote]

He’s been working out for two years. You think he’s still enjoying beginner gains?[/quote]

It’s not an unreasonable assumption.[/quote]

Has it been your experience that newbie gains last for two years? I would say that’d be more the exception than the rule, especially for a guy in his 40s.
[/quote]

I think it depends on how much effort the individual puts forth. I know that gains came easily for me in my first 2+ years of training, so yes, that’s been my own experience. Conversely, I’ve had friends who couldn’t seem to make gains after they’d be lifting for a few months. Age is obviously a factor, but so are effort and starting point. Some people are more ‘primed’ for gains than others. That’s why I said it’s not unreasonable. Too many factors to rule it out.[/quote]

Effort yes. It’s all about that

I have a few friends that suck in the gym. No effort. It’s more of a jaw workout than anythign. They have been working out for 10 years. If I kicked there ass. And they put in effort I’d still classify the fast gains they’d get as beginner gains. It has nothing to do with years working out ok some of it is but that’s a portion of it only[/quote]

Perceived effort and “Aha!” moments will continue giving you “beginner” gains for the first 5 years or so. Few people have the capacity to perform at a high level right from the get go.

You can, however, define the beginner gains by doing literally any form of stupid training and still make progress. Depends on who you ask.

313

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]Pantherhare wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

Beginner gains. Enjoy[/quote]

He’s been working out for two years. You think he’s still enjoying beginner gains?[/quote]

It’s not an unreasonable assumption.[/quote]

It is a mildly arrogant one though.

I’m 31 been training 15 years and I’m still getting better.[/quote]

I don’t see how it’s arrogant. I would consider most/all of my own gains in my first 2 years of lifting to have been ‘beginner’ gains. Nothing wrong with that. I don’t necessarily see that there’s a particular point when gains go from being ‘beginner’ gains to ‘advanced’ gains. Hell, 10 years from now I may look at my current gains as being beginner gains, lol.[/quote]

I didn’t take it as arrogant. In fact, it is partially true. My point is only to say that people in their 40s and older can certainly build muscle and grow.

I have heard so much talk about older folks simply trying to stave off atrophy and weakness that, before I started lifting, my goal was simply to get in shape and slow down my decline. I had no idea that I could actually grow significantly.

Anyway, I am psyched and proud as fck. Basically.

314

[quote]LoRez wrote:
What happens if you start using too “soon”?

There’s so much talk about whether or not you’re “ready”, but what happens if you do it anyway… assuming, let’s say, you’re 23-25.

Is there anything particularly wrong with that?[/quote]

I would guess a lot of the too soon advice is more about the maturity level of someone under 25 using vs those above.

Their more likely to engage in wreckless usage and not have researched enough about the compounds they are using.

Edit: How many <25 users are going to get blood tests done before, during and after a cycle? How many are going to take the time to learn how to read a blood panel?

315

[quote]LoRez wrote:
What happens if you start using too “soon”?

There’s so much talk about whether or not you’re “ready”, but what happens if you do it anyway… assuming, let’s say, you’re 23-25.

Is there anything particularly wrong with that?[/quote]

There’s so much behind this question, but if you ignore the ethical/cheating aspect, there is a strong argument for starting early if it translates to cash. If you’re a College football player who’s not quite pro caliber, and steroids put you over the top, waiting makes no sense. You won’t be able to showcase your abilities if you wait until you graduate, so you’d need to use by the time you’re about 20 to be able to translate the drug use into a professional football contract. In the pro bodybuilding world, most high level competitors likely started using earlier than 23. Not all, but most. If you want to compete at the highest level in that sport, you obviously have to use, and many would argue that you might as well start earlier rather than later.

For the amateur athlete, or the guy who just wants to look good/better with his shirt off, I think it’s easier to make the argument that it’s best to wait for maturity to set it a bit. Plus it’s so easy to make gains at that age.

316

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
What happens if you start using too “soon”?

There’s so much talk about whether or not you’re “ready”, but what happens if you do it anyway… assuming, let’s say, you’re 23-25.

Is there anything particularly wrong with that?[/quote]

There’s so much behind this question, but if you ignore the ethical/cheating aspect, there is a strong argument for starting early if it translates to cash. If you’re a College football player who’s not quite pro caliber, and steroids put you over the top, waiting makes no sense. You won’t be able to showcase your abilities if you wait until you graduate, so you’d need to use by the time you’re about 20 to be able to translate the drug use into a professional football contract. In the pro bodybuilding world, most high level competitors likely started using earlier than 23. Not all, but most. If you want to compete at the highest level in that sport, you obviously have to use, and many would argue that you might as well start earlier rather than later.

For the amateur athlete, or the guy who just wants to look good/better with his shirt off, I think it’s easier to make the argument that it’s best to wait for maturity to set it a bit. Plus it’s so easy to make gains at that age.[/quote]

I’d have a hard time telling someone straight up “using steroids at this age is bad” if they’re looking at being a serious competitive athlete. I’m not talking about Johnny 2nd String JV, but a kid who is putting in time and effort into their sport and will absolutely make shit happen when they take the plunge.

I have a story I want to tell but it’s hard to keep it anonymous with much detail, but the ‘vague’ part is that I know a kid who started using at 16 and basically got set for life off of that. Now, it’s impossible to know how things turn out if he ‘holds his ace up his sleeve’ as Dave Tate suggests in a somewhat famous video about using steroids early, but I have a pretty good feeling he wouldn’t have gotten nearly as far because of the way sports work.

The earlier you shine in sports(as long as you don’t let it get to your head and keep that work ethic high) the better it tends to work out for you, because you get more reps, more/better coaching, more confidence, more spotlight… basically more of everything ‘good’ except motivation(I guess you have to settle for the intrinsic kind and not the ‘nobody thinks I can’ kind). OBVIOUSLY there are exceptions, dudes who fought their way to the top despite not looking like they had it in them, but the NFL and NBA are filled with prospects who did what people thought they would at every level, because in a way there is a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy thing going on.

Does that mean I’m going to go around telling 16 year olds to use? Fuck no. But it is something to think about.

317

[quote]roland2000 wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]Pantherhare wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

Beginner gains. Enjoy[/quote]

He’s been working out for two years. You think he’s still enjoying beginner gains?[/quote]

It’s not an unreasonable assumption.[/quote]

It is a mildly arrogant one though.

I’m 31 been training 15 years and I’m still getting better.[/quote]

I don’t see how it’s arrogant. I would consider most/all of my own gains in my first 2 years of lifting to have been ‘beginner’ gains. Nothing wrong with that. I don’t necessarily see that there’s a particular point when gains go from being ‘beginner’ gains to ‘advanced’ gains. Hell, 10 years from now I may look at my current gains as being beginner gains, lol.[/quote]

I didn’t take it as arrogant. In fact, it is partially true. My point is only to say that people in their 40s and older can certainly build muscle and grow.

[/quote]

My friend, we are both the same age so I think I can speak on the aging process with you. Are you telling me that you are lifting more at 48 then when you were 38?

Maybe I did something wrong if that is the case or is there any chance your lifting was not so spot on 10 years ago. I really wish you were right.

318

[quote]red04 wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
What happens if you start using too “soon”?

There’s so much talk about whether or not you’re “ready”, but what happens if you do it anyway…[/quote]

[good stuff][/quote]

[more good stuff][/quote]

Thanks for these answers. It seems the “you’re not ready” is more a caution against being stupid about it. (Ethics/“cheating” aside.)

Seems be more: “Are you mature enough to understand the risks and accept the consequences? Are you willing and able to self-monitor and/or work with someone competent (e.g., endocrinologist)? Do you understand that these substances aren’t magic and that you’ll get better benefits if everything else is in line (diet/training/recovery)?”

319

[quote]doublelung84 wrote:

[quote]roland2000 wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]Pantherhare wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

Beginner gains. Enjoy[/quote]

He’s been working out for two years. You think he’s still enjoying beginner gains?[/quote]

It’s not an unreasonable assumption.[/quote]

It is a mildly arrogant one though.

I’m 31 been training 15 years and I’m still getting better.[/quote]

I don’t see how it’s arrogant. I would consider most/all of my own gains in my first 2 years of lifting to have been ‘beginner’ gains. Nothing wrong with that. I don’t necessarily see that there’s a particular point when gains go from being ‘beginner’ gains to ‘advanced’ gains. Hell, 10 years from now I may look at my current gains as being beginner gains, lol.[/quote]

I didn’t take it as arrogant. In fact, it is partially true. My point is only to say that people in their 40s and older can certainly build muscle and grow.

[/quote]

My friend, we are both the same age so I think I can speak on the aging process with you. Are you telling me that you are lifting more at 48 then when you were 38?

Maybe I did something wrong if that is the case or is there any chance your lifting was not so spot on 10 years ago. I really wish you were right.

[/quote]

Yes, I am lifting more at 48 than 38 because I wasn’t lifting anything at all at 38. I am really into my first couple years of lifting. I am a “beginner” at 48.

Why I am doing well is because I never lifted seriously before and have also managed to arrive at 48 without any major trouble with my body. My back is fine. My knees are fine, shoulders,…etc. I have taken good care of myself and have never let myself get too out of shape.

The only thing that has held me back is my weak hands and forearms which comes from working at a desk for the past 15 years. It took me the first year or so of lifting to correct this imbalance.

Now I am gaining good weight and my waist is not increasing in size.

I am a beginner though as has been pointed out. I’m still not working with 100kg on the bench…I’m at 90kg and will be hoisting up 100kg for reps sometime during this summer if all goes well.

When I hit 50, I will be a strong Bastard. Stronger than I have ever been in my life…Truth.

320

[quote]roland2000 wrote:

[quote]doublelung84 wrote:

[quote]roland2000 wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]Pantherhare wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

Beginner gains. Enjoy[/quote]

He’s been working out for two years. You think he’s still enjoying beginner gains?[/quote]

It’s not an unreasonable assumption.[/quote]

It is a mildly arrogant one though.

I’m 31 been training 15 years and I’m still getting better.[/quote]

I don’t see how it’s arrogant. I would consider most/all of my own gains in my first 2 years of lifting to have been ‘beginner’ gains. Nothing wrong with that. I don’t necessarily see that there’s a particular point when gains go from being ‘beginner’ gains to ‘advanced’ gains. Hell, 10 years from now I may look at my current gains as being beginner gains, lol.[/quote]

I didn’t take it as arrogant. In fact, it is partially true. My point is only to say that people in their 40s and older can certainly build muscle and grow.

[/quote]

My friend, we are both the same age so I think I can speak on the aging process with you. Are you telling me that you are lifting more at 48 then when you were 38?

Maybe I did something wrong if that is the case or is there any chance your lifting was not so spot on 10 years ago. I really wish you were right.

[/quote]

Yes, I am lifting more at 48 than 38 because I wasn’t lifting anything at all at 38. I am really into my first couple years of lifting. I am a “beginner” at 48.

Why I am doing well is because I never lifted seriously before and have also managed to arrive at 48 without any major trouble with my body. My back is fine. My knees are fine, shoulders,…etc. I have taken good care of myself and have never let myself get too out of shape.

The only thing that has held me back is my weak hands and forearms which comes from working at a desk for the past 15 years. It took me the first year or so of lifting to correct this imbalance.

Now I am gaining good weight and my waist is not increasing in size.

I am a beginner though as has been pointed out. I’m still not working with 100kg on the bench…I’m at 90kg and will be hoisting up 100kg for reps sometime during this summer if all goes well.

When I hit 50, I will be a strong Bastard. Stronger than I have ever been in my life…Truth.
[/quote]

Ok, I understand where you are coming from. If you are getting stronger and bigger, you are on the right course. It seems like you just want to be better than yesterday; that should be the goal at any age.

Good luck with your shot at 100kg. Depending on your body weight, it’s very obtainable.

321

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]red04 wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
What happens if you start using too “soon”?

There’s so much talk about whether or not you’re “ready”, but what happens if you do it anyway…[/quote]

[good stuff][/quote]

[more good stuff][/quote]

Thanks for these answers. It seems the “you’re not ready” is more a caution against being stupid about it. (Ethics/“cheating” aside.)

Seems be more: “Are you mature enough to understand the risks and accept the consequences? Are you willing and able to self-monitor and/or work with someone competent (e.g., endocrinologist)? Do you understand that these substances aren’t magic and that you’ll get better benefits if everything else is in line (diet/training/recovery)?”[/quote]

Don’t forget “training and nutrition IQ”. While BBing isn’t overly difficult, proper experience (from doing it and not just from reading about it) and understanding of the basic principles at work will surely maximize the gains you will get from AAS use. Beginners don’t know shit, even those who read a lot and have some brain like you.

Disregarding genetics, I bet my or even better Stu’s gains would blow your gains out of the water if we all started using AAS tomorrow.

322

I am 25, been on clomid amd about to do hcg monotherapy. I have stayed natural as i can with my hypogonadism, bit these reasons are why i stay away from cycling test etc:

  1. I dont want roid rage to jeapordize my job when i hate everyone around me.
  2. Hair loss acceleration.
  3. Its cheating, and would ruin the sport for me
  4. I am not experienced enough with diet and trainimg programs to keep gains once off.
323

This post almost 4 years old…

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