Why Stay Natural?

[quote]doublelung84 wrote:

[quote]kalb wrote:

I want to get the strongest and biggest possible naturally so all the credits go to my hard work and dedication ONLY. This is the ultimate satisfaction for me.
[/quote]

Have you given any thought to what you will do when you reach that point?

You’re 25 right? Gains come easy at 20; at 25, hard consistent work will do, at 30 everything has to on; training, diet, knowledge of your body, and rest. It’s at this time you will be struggling to put 10 lbs on your bench in a year. At 35 you will most likely be at your peak providing you have avoided the injury bug. At 40, your weights in the gym will decline, injuries will mount up, you’ll take on a softer look, your % BF will go up and you may find out for the first time in your life what the term “Stubborn Fat” is.

I’m not painting a bad picture for you, actually if you go at it naturally you may be even happier but this is most likely where you will go once you get there. [/quote]
I’m 26. I’m going to choose to ignore your experience and substitute my own made up ideas. When you wake up on your 35th birthday your bench press will have magically increased by 50lbs. Ah… The best is yet to come.

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]doublelung84 wrote:

[quote]kalb wrote:

I want to get the strongest and biggest possible naturally so all the credits go to my hard work and dedication ONLY. This is the ultimate satisfaction for me.
[/quote]

Have you given any thought to what you will do when you reach that point?

You’re 25 right? Gains come easy at 20; at 25, hard consistent work will do, at 30 everything has to on; training, diet, knowledge of your body, and rest. It’s at this time you will be struggling to put 10 lbs on your bench in a year. At 35 you will most likely be at your peak providing you have avoided the injury bug. At 40, your weights in the gym will decline, injuries will mount up, you’ll take on a softer look, your % BF will go up and you may find out for the first time in your life what the term “Stubborn Fat” is.

I’m not painting a bad picture for you, actually if you go at it naturally you may be even happier but this is most likely where you will go once you get there. [/quote]
I’m 26. I’m going to choose to ignore your experience and substitute my own made up ideas. When you wake up on your 35th birthday your bench press will have magically increased by 50lbs. Ah… The best is yet to come.[/quote]

Oh hell ya, I’ll finally be able to bench the bar!

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]doublelung84 wrote:

[quote]kalb wrote:

I want to get the strongest and biggest possible naturally so all the credits go to my hard work and dedication ONLY. This is the ultimate satisfaction for me.
[/quote]

Have you given any thought to what you will do when you reach that point?

You’re 25 right? Gains come easy at 20; at 25, hard consistent work will do, at 30 everything has to on; training, diet, knowledge of your body, and rest. It’s at this time you will be struggling to put 10 lbs on your bench in a year. At 35 you will most likely be at your peak providing you have avoided the injury bug. At 40, your weights in the gym will decline, injuries will mount up, you’ll take on a softer look, your % BF will go up and you may find out for the first time in your life what the term “Stubborn Fat” is.

I’m not painting a bad picture for you, actually if you go at it naturally you may be even happier but this is most likely where you will go once you get there. [/quote]
I’m 26. I’m going to choose to ignore your experience and substitute my own made up ideas. When you wake up on your 35th birthday your bench press will have magically increased by 50lbs. Ah… The best is yet to come.[/quote]

[quote]kalb wrote:
I want to get the strongest and biggest possible naturally so all the credits go to my hard work and dedication ONLY. This is the ultimate satisfaction for me.

Some may argue about supplements. I would say i only use dietary supplements which don’t have a dramatic influence on performance and gains and don’t change the hormonal balance in the body to make you an advanced version of yourself.[/quote]

You have a good point. I will argue, however, that you have to work HARDER when on cycle. You are stronger, recovery faster and can eat more. This translates to moving bigger weights(more mentally taxing), increased time in the gym, and more food prep. I do see your reasoning, but also take into account the extra effort required to see those extra results.

[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:

[quote]kalb wrote:
I want to get the strongest and biggest possible naturally so all the credits go to my hard work and dedication ONLY. This is the ultimate satisfaction for me.

Some may argue about supplements. I would say i only use dietary supplements which don’t have a dramatic influence on performance and gains and don’t change the hormonal balance in the body to make you an advanced version of yourself.[/quote]

You have a good point. I will argue, however, that you have to work HARDER when on cycle. You are stronger, recovery faster and can eat more. This translates to moving bigger weights(more mentally taxing), increased time in the gym, and more food prep. I do see your reasoning, but also take into account the extra effort required to see those extra results.
[/quote]

Nah brah, you just take that shit and get huge. Trust me, I am a professional.

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:

[quote]kalb wrote:
I want to get the strongest and biggest possible naturally so all the credits go to my hard work and dedication ONLY. This is the ultimate satisfaction for me.

Some may argue about supplements. I would say i only use dietary supplements which don’t have a dramatic influence on performance and gains and don’t change the hormonal balance in the body to make you an advanced version of yourself.[/quote]

You have a good point. I will argue, however, that you have to work HARDER when on cycle. You are stronger, recovery faster and can eat more. This translates to moving bigger weights(more mentally taxing), increased time in the gym, and more food prep. I do see your reasoning, but also take into account the extra effort required to see those extra results.
[/quote]

Nah brah, you just take that shit and get huge. Trust me, I am a professional.[/quote]

My mistake. You’re totally right.

I posted a pic with my reply. Not sure why it didn’t show up. Ruined mah joke.

[quote]doublelung84 wrote:

[quote]kalb wrote:

I want to get the strongest and biggest possible naturally so all the credits go to my hard work and dedication ONLY. This is the ultimate satisfaction for me.
[/quote]

Have you given any thought to what you will do when you reach that point?

You’re 25 right? Gains come easy at 20; at 25, hard consistent work will do, at 30 everything has to on; training, diet, knowledge of your body, and rest. It’s at this time you will be struggling to put 10 lbs on your bench in a year. At 35 you will most likely be at your peak providing you have avoided the injury bug. At 40, your weights in the gym will decline, injuries will mount up, you’ll take on a softer look, your % BF will go up and you may find out for the first time in your life what the term “Stubborn Fat” is.

I’m not painting a bad picture for you, actually if you go at it naturally you may be even happier but this is most likely where you will go once you get there. [/quote]

Don’t be so sure about what you are saying regarding older lifters. In my case, I am 48, never really lifted before and I have no issues with my joints or tendons. Two years ago, I decided to see how fit and strong I could be and have been real consistent and hard working. The result is that I am getting bigger and stronger than I have ever been in my life.

I am 48 and growing.

Just so you know. You can build muscles when you are older.

As far as the “why stay natural” issue goes: I am natural and am making good progress. I don’t compete in any sport. There is no reason to change that up. Perhaps when I hit 60.

[quote]roland2000 wrote:

[quote]doublelung84 wrote:

[quote]kalb wrote:

I want to get the strongest and biggest possible naturally so all the credits go to my hard work and dedication ONLY. This is the ultimate satisfaction for me.
[/quote]

Have you given any thought to what you will do when you reach that point?

You’re 25 right? Gains come easy at 20; at 25, hard consistent work will do, at 30 everything has to on; training, diet, knowledge of your body, and rest. It’s at this time you will be struggling to put 10 lbs on your bench in a year. At 35 you will most likely be at your peak providing you have avoided the injury bug. At 40, your weights in the gym will decline, injuries will mount up, you’ll take on a softer look, your % BF will go up and you may find out for the first time in your life what the term “Stubborn Fat” is.

I’m not painting a bad picture for you, actually if you go at it naturally you may be even happier but this is most likely where you will go once you get there. [/quote]

Don’t be so sure about what you are saying regarding older lifters. In my case, I am 48, never really lifted before and I have no issues with my joints or tendons. Two years ago, I decided to see how fit and strong I could be and have been real consistent and hard working. The result is that I am getting bigger and stronger than I have ever been in my life.

I am 48 and growing.

Just so you know. You can build muscles when you are older.

As far as the “why stay natural” issue goes: I am natural and am making good progress. I don’t compete in any sport. There is no reason to change that up. Perhaps when I hit 60.
[/quote]

Beginner gains. Enjoy

[quote]kalb wrote:
Several years ago i was too naive and thought crazy gains and strength could be achieved without the use of steroids and juice is for the lazy people who don’t want to work hard, inpatients and stupid.

Why stupid? Because my ignorance led me to think that liver failure and permanent sterility were inevitable just to realize that roids are the dirty secret of all the IFBB pros and all time world record holders and when used wisely, the long term side effects are minimal.

So my health fears were exaggerated and don’t make sense anymore for me to not use steroids but a stronger and more convenient reason keeps me away from them!

I want to get the strongest and biggest possible naturally so all the credits go to my hard work and dedication ONLY. This is the ultimate satisfaction for me.

Some may argue about supplements. I would say i only use dietary supplements which don’t have a dramatic influence on performance and gains and don’t change the hormonal balance in the body to make you an advanced version of yourself.[/quote]

Then why use those supplements?

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]kalb wrote:
Several years ago i was too naive and thought crazy gains and strength could be achieved without the use of steroids and juice is for the lazy people who don’t want to work hard, inpatients and stupid.

Why stupid? Because my ignorance led me to think that liver failure and permanent sterility were inevitable just to realize that roids are the dirty secret of all the IFBB pros and all time world record holders and when used wisely, the long term side effects are minimal.

So my health fears were exaggerated and don’t make sense anymore for me to not use steroids but a stronger and more convenient reason keeps me away from them!

I want to get the strongest and biggest possible naturally so all the credits go to my hard work and dedication ONLY. This is the ultimate satisfaction for me.

Some may argue about supplements. I would say i only use dietary supplements which don’t have a dramatic influence on performance and gains and don’t change the hormonal balance in the body to make you an advanced version of yourself.[/quote]

Then why use those supplements?
[/quote]

Multivitamins to boost my immunity and overall health to minimize the risk of illness that may take me off the gym for some time.
Protein because i’m too busy and i can’t take it all from whole foods.
Omega 3 for joint support to be able to lift for years and years.
Amino acids to prevent being in a catabolic state and lose any possible progress

Usually this is my basic stack and as you notice it is mostly to “Not to loose” and not to enhance insanely.

[quote]kalb wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]kalb wrote:
Several years ago i was too naive and thought crazy gains and strength could be achieved without the use of steroids and juice is for the lazy people who don’t want to work hard, inpatients and stupid.

Why stupid? Because my ignorance led me to think that liver failure and permanent sterility were inevitable just to realize that roids are the dirty secret of all the IFBB pros and all time world record holders and when used wisely, the long term side effects are minimal.

So my health fears were exaggerated and don’t make sense anymore for me to not use steroids but a stronger and more convenient reason keeps me away from them!

I want to get the strongest and biggest possible naturally so all the credits go to my hard work and dedication ONLY. This is the ultimate satisfaction for me.

Some may argue about supplements. I would say i only use dietary supplements which don’t have a dramatic influence on performance and gains and don’t change the hormonal balance in the body to make you an advanced version of yourself.[/quote]

Then why use those supplements?
[/quote]

Multivitamins to boost my immunity and overall health to minimize the risk of illness that may take me off the gym for some time.
Protein because i’m too busy and i can’t take it all from whole foods.
Omega 3 for joint support to be able to lift for years and years.
Amino acids to prevent being in a catabolic state and lose any possible progress

Usually this is my basic stack and as you notice it is mostly to “Not to loose” and not to enhance insanely.
[/quote]

lol

[quote]kalb wrote:
Several years ago i was too naive and thought crazy gains and strength could be achieved without the use of steroids and juice is for the lazy people who don’t want to work hard, inpatients and stupid.

Why stupid? Because my ignorance led me to think that liver failure and permanent sterility were inevitable just to realize that roids are the dirty secret of all the IFBB pros and all time world record holders and when used wisely, the long term side effects are minimal.

So my health fears were exaggerated and don’t make sense anymore for me to not use steroids but a stronger and more convenient reason keeps me away from them!

I want to get the strongest and biggest possible naturally so all the credits go to my hard work and dedication ONLY. This is the ultimate satisfaction for me.[/quote]

This is like straight out of a anti-steroid propaganda commercial. I recommend you watch the documentary Bigger Stronger Faster if you haven’t seen it.

[quote]kalb wrote:
Some may argue about supplements. I would say i only use dietary supplements which don’t have a dramatic influence on performance and gains and don’t change the hormonal balance in the body to make you an advanced version of yourself.[/quote]

Dietary supplements even the ones for health have a noticeable effect on your hormone levels. Pretty sure curcumin, fish oil, zinc, vitamin D all boost T.

If your goal is health, then building any significant amount of muscle or strength isn’t for you. Guys with higher T levels tend to live shorter lives.

You’re goal is health and longevity? Stop chasing physique goals and instead do the following:

Make your main form of exercise walking with small amounts of light weight training.

Eat a mostly plant based diet with moderate amounts of egg, meat and wild fish.

Keep calories low to moderate.

[quote]therajraj wrote:

Dietary supplements even the ones for health have a noticeable effect on your hormone levels. Pretty sure curcumin, fish oil, zinc, vitamin D all boost T.

If your goal is health, then building any significant amount of muscle or strength isn’t for you. Guys with higher T levels tend to live shorter lives.

You’re goal is health and longevity? Stop chasing physique goals and instead do the following:

Make your main form of exercise walking with small amounts of light weight training.

Eat a mostly plant based diet with moderate amounts of egg, meat and wild fish.

Keep calories low to moderate.

[/quote]

I never mentioned that health is my goal. I said if you’re sick or have fucked up joints you can’t lift.

A deadlift PR may cause a greater increase in test levels than the supplements you mentioned and it won’t enhance strength and muscle gains magically like roids do.

[quote]kalb wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Dietary supplements even the ones for health have a noticeable effect on your hormone levels. Pretty sure curcumin, fish oil, zinc, vitamin D all boost T. [/quote]
A deadlift PR may cause a greater increase in test levels than the supplements you mentioned[…]
[/quote]

I can’t cite studies or anything, but I’m pretty sure that that’s a false statement.

But it’s not because they “increase test levels”, but rather that most people/athletes/lifters have insufficient levels of omega 3s, vitamin d and zinc… so by supplementing them back to “normal” levels, T production is restored. (I don’t know anything about curcumin.)

In other words: if your T levels are artificially low due to deficiencies/insufficiencies, supplementation will help more than deadlifts.

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]kalb wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Dietary supplements even the ones for health have a noticeable effect on your hormone levels. Pretty sure curcumin, fish oil, zinc, vitamin D all boost T. [/quote]
A deadlift PR may cause a greater increase in test levels than the supplements you mentioned[…]
[/quote]

I can’t cite studies or anything, but I’m pretty sure that that’s a false statement.

But it’s not because they “increase test levels”, but rather that most people/athletes/lifters have insufficient levels of omega 3s, vitamin d and zinc… so by supplementing them back to “normal” levels, T production is restored. (I don’t know anything about curcumin.)

In other words: if your T levels are artificially low due to deficiencies/insufficiencies, supplementation will help more than deadlifts.[/quote]

CT has said on here a number of times that athletes and trainees typically have lower T-levels than the average person. It’s weird and hard to wrap your brain around, lol, but I believe him.

Also, I thought it was a known fact that T-levels drop substantially after about an hour of training. Perhaps not?

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]kalb wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Dietary supplements even the ones for health have a noticeable effect on your hormone levels. Pretty sure curcumin, fish oil, zinc, vitamin D all boost T. [/quote]
A deadlift PR may cause a greater increase in test levels than the supplements you mentioned[…]
[/quote]

I can’t cite studies or anything, but I’m pretty sure that that’s a false statement.

But it’s not because they “increase test levels”, but rather that most people/athletes/lifters have insufficient levels of omega 3s, vitamin d and zinc… so by supplementing them back to “normal” levels, T production is restored. (I don’t know anything about curcumin.)

In other words: if your T levels are artificially low due to deficiencies/insufficiencies, supplementation will help more than deadlifts.[/quote]

You are over-analyzing man. I just meant it is too negligible to be considered.

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]roland2000 wrote:

[quote]doublelung84 wrote:

[quote]kalb wrote:

I want to get the strongest and biggest possible naturally so all the credits go to my hard work and dedication ONLY. This is the ultimate satisfaction for me.
[/quote]

Have you given any thought to what you will do when you reach that point?

You’re 25 right? Gains come easy at 20; at 25, hard consistent work will do, at 30 everything has to on; training, diet, knowledge of your body, and rest. It’s at this time you will be struggling to put 10 lbs on your bench in a year. At 35 you will most likely be at your peak providing you have avoided the injury bug. At 40, your weights in the gym will decline, injuries will mount up, you’ll take on a softer look, your % BF will go up and you may find out for the first time in your life what the term “Stubborn Fat” is.

I’m not painting a bad picture for you, actually if you go at it naturally you may be even happier but this is most likely where you will go once you get there. [/quote]

Don’t be so sure about what you are saying regarding older lifters. In my case, I am 48, never really lifted before and I have no issues with my joints or tendons. Two years ago, I decided to see how fit and strong I could be and have been real consistent and hard working. The result is that I am getting bigger and stronger than I have ever been in my life.

I am 48 and growing.

Just so you know. You can build muscles when you are older.

As far as the “why stay natural” issue goes: I am natural and am making good progress. I don’t compete in any sport. There is no reason to change that up. Perhaps when I hit 60.
[/quote]

Beginner gains. Enjoy[/quote]

I would have gone on a tangent but your 3 words said it all!

I could cut 10 strokes off my game in a months time; but then I don’t golf.

If you stay natural, you are a pussy.

There I said it.

Come at me natural bros.

[quote]Bauber wrote:
If you stay natural, you are a pussy.

There I said it.

Come at me natural bros.[/quote]

but but but being natural makes me special…

Lol, for the record I don’t give a shit either way. Put what you want in your body.