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Why Shouldn't I Do a Cycle @ 18%bf?


hi guys

my current wieght is 195lbs.

i am bulking atm from 13ish % and want to start a cycle at the end of this bulk to put on more wieght.

i want a goal wieght of 225 @ something like 10-8%BF

to achieve this ^^ i am willing to bulk to a higher BF 240-250lbs then start to cut down after proper successful PCT

i am not scared of fat, will shredd it over a cutting cycle after i maintain most of the gains earned post cycle.

please direct me or suggest any topics/stickies i can read in these boards or others

this will be my first cycle btw.


cause most people consider 18% pretty chubby unless you have an enormous amount of muscle.

if you are 5'4 then that's a little different..

but if you are a normal height like 5'10 and 195lbs at 18% bf, then IMO you are not ready for a cycle. You have too much bodyfat and not enough lean body mass. You didnt say, but unless you are a strength athlete who doesn't care about how he looks whatsoever you should lose some bodyfat. remember fat cells never go away, they only shrink, the fatter you allow yourself to become, the more difficult it will be to cut down without losing muscle.


why would you let yourself gain 5% MORE bodyfat if youre already at 13? Youre not even big, theres no excuse to put on that much fat at your current weight.

Learn to eat better.


i was over exaggerating the fat gains. i do like to bulk dirty though.

i am 5'10, just wondering if high levels of BF would have a difference on the amount of muscle i put on in my first cycle.

i am planning to cycle test only when i reach 200 to get a goal weight of 240, then cut to 200-10 lean if possible.

thanks your reply, i noticed that you are a veteran as i been lurking here for a while.


You CANNOT out juice or out train a shitty diet, believe me I have tried. Please learn from my mistakes.

Better diet and more food means more muscle and less fat, better health and recovery irrespective of steroid use. Good diet should be part of your lifestyle, I'm not saying impede muscle gain by eating fucking lettuce sandwiches, what I mean is if you need 4k a day, eat steak, beef-burger, stir-fried meat vegetables and a 6 egg omelette for breakfast every day with protein shakes. Not ice cream, candy bars pizza and fizzy drinks. I can say from experience that 3-4k a day from shitty food gives little in the way of gains, health and recovery and a lot in the way of fat accumulation...

One of my favorite quotes from Louie Simmons... "Skip the milk and chocolate cookies, buy a book or two on nutrition then read and learn"


the reason I wouldn't let my bodyfat get that high while bulking is simple. There are a few guys at my gym that are much stronger than I am and carry more muscle, but they are 20%+ bf and consequently look like fat guys who have never lifted before.


If your lifting weights like Reza Dazeh or Andy Bolton then I suppose you're allowed to have >20%!

Not many of us would feel comfortable like that, I was 21% BF once and it really wasn't fun, I can't remember having much sex during that period either...


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So youre going to get to 200lbs (in average condition). Then get fat (in fat condition). Then go back down to 210 (in "lean" condition).

How about you think about this for more than 20 seconds and realize that you can simply gain to 200 without getting much fatter than you are now. Then, if you really need steroids to get to 210 (lol), gain 12-15 pounds of lbm while shedding a tiny bit of fat in the process.

I mean I only thought about that plan for roughly 3 eyeblinks, but I think it sounds ok. What do you think? PLease dont respond with "but Id rather be lazy and do it my way".


my english is terrible man, as well as my calculating lbs to kgs

i want to be a lean 225 by end of year, and wondering will starting a cycle with a bit of extra fat make a difference to gains or estrogen side effests like gyno.

i just simplified what i want answered above. thanks for taking the time to answer






You have already been told you what you needed to hear. Going from 195 @ 13% to 225 @ 11% would require gaining 30 lbs of muscle and NO fat. You can either dirty bulk on an extra 25 lbs of fat and turn around and diet it right off, or just gain a bit slower and not get fat in the first place.

The more fat you carry will increase estrogen sides and make PCT a little tougher. Your call...


explain this a bit more man

and its exactly what i was enquiring about.


if you have a little extra fat on you it is still possible to run a cycle.

only thing is you have to be a little more aggressive with your AI administration because like was already stated the more fat you have the more aromatase you have and more sites to turn the test into E.

it is possible but its harder and you need alot more research.
however,at 195 and 18% I wouldnt advise it ,if you were 300 and 18% then thats a different story.
your lean mass is only around 150ish pounds you should learn to eat first and learn how to gain muscle without drugs and then go for it


in fat tissue lives an enzyme called aromatase,this enzymes sole job is to take free testosterone and switch it to estrogen,which is very similar to begin with. when you have more fat you have more of this enzyme and more chances to have your test switched to estrogen.
the leaner you are the less of this enzyme you carry around.
this is the basics of it anyways


Isn't the nunmber of fat cells fixed, they just change size?


no if you get fat enough they can start to multiply - think its called hyperplasia but dont quote me on that. been a while since i read up on it


Right, but I'm looking at it from the other direction - even if he diets before cycling, it wont help, based on this theory.


Brown Adipocytes (fat cells) are fixed and not fixed. They are fixed in the fact that you cannot decrease their numbers, but they are not fixed because they CAN increase. When there is an abudance of lipids stem cells are recruited to form new adipoctyes. When you lose fat they just shrink in size not in numbers, hence why a dirty bulk is not a good idea unless you decide to get liposuction which can remove the actual adipose tissue :slight_smile: Fucking medical exams!!!