[quote]bretc wrote:
Krollmonster wrote:
bretc wrote:
Louie Simmons said something to the effect that a powerlifter who can squat 1000 pounds could easily full squat 800 pounds, but an Olympic lifter who can full squat 800 pounds could not powerlifting style squat 1000 pounds.
I don’t think I have seen any videos of elite powerlifters doing any atg squats, can you share any?
Correct me if I am wrong, but do any powerlifters do deep squats in training? I don’t understand why they would want to train strength in a position that does not add to their total. Especially, when the purpose is to use the best leverage and positioning to minimize the distance the bar has to move so they can lift a $hitload of weight.
An olympic lifter isn’t interested in doing a powerlifting squat to help his clean and jerk, so it doesn’t really matter what he can squat in that position. Remember it takes a different type of technique to drive out of the hole of a deep squat after catching a clean. I would prefer to reinforce that skill.
I’ll give you my opinion. I will state that I have never competed as or trained an Olympic lifter. I am not anywhere near an authority on Olympic lifting.
However, I have watched many videos and read many articles about Olympic weightlifting and know that most Oly lifters’ routines are centered around full squats, front squats, and clean, snatch and jerk variations. Then they throw in things like explosive good mornings, barbell lunges, etc.
But just because most oly lifters train the same way, it doesn’t mean that there isn’t a better way.
Many Oly lifters over the years have been very creative in their training. For example one Oly lifter made the glute ham raise popular (he used a pommel horse), which is not specific to the Oly lifts but it will strengthen the hamstrings sufficiently.
One lifter on the Elite Fitness website by the name of Travis Mash is an accomplished powerlifter and he has been dabbling in Olympic lifting. I believe he wants to qualify for the next Olympics.
He uses bands, chains and reverse hypers in his training. He is using many unconventional methods because he was schooled by Louie Simmons and trained as a Westsider.
I believe that powerlifters are more open-minded than oly lifters in their training. Most powerlifters perform full squats at various stages throughout the year for several reasons.
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To increase the difficulty of the exercise by making the leverages disadvantageous
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To increase the strength of their quadriceps
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To incorporate variety into their training and
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To give their hips a break from wide stance squatting.
Perhaps performing box squats and powerlifting style squats occasionally would benefit an olympic lifter. Variations of lifts feed off of each other. For example, sumo deads help increase your conventional deadlift and safety bar squats help increase your regular squat.
I’m not saying that olympic lifters must perform box squats and/or powerlifting style squats. I just know that Louie Simmons believes so and he is a very smart man and that there is more than one way to skin a cat.
Specificity is a great thing but so is variety. [/quote]
I will say from experience in O-lifting that being “strong” doesn’t neccessarily make you a better O-lifter. As mentioned by cactrotman, the lifts that they care about are snatch and clean-and-jerk. There is so much technique involved here. There are some O-lifters that squat way more than other guys, but they still can’t snatch or clean and jerk as much as some guys with lower squat weights. Another aspect of squatting that is of a hinderance to O-lifters is the fact that too much squatting, especially during competitive phases, stiffens up the hip complex. This, although making one stronger in squatting, causes a lack of speed and flexibility during the competitive lifts themselves. That is partly the reason why i believe most coaches program their athlete’s squatting volume to be kept low and around an intensity of 15-20% over their snatch and clean and jerk percentages.
I’ve also seen a video on youtube of powerlifters doing band power snatches, and i personally think that is not “creative”, it’s down right dangerous. Bands are great tools for working on sticking points and teaching acceleration, however for a lift like a snatch or clean-and-jerk, it changes the natural rhythm and intertia of the bar. This can groove bad motor patterns and ultimately end up causing a condition known as “dislocated shoulder” and/or “taking a bar to the face”
