T Nation

Why Not This Post-Work Out?


#1

if you need fast digesting carbs PWO
'
just curious, seriously, why not these things:

Saltine Crackers
candy -non fat kind
non-alcoholic beer
or pasta

none of this is "clean" that I know of but if you just need the carbs -why not??


#2

There are plenty of sources of carbs out there, it's not too tough to find some that would "work" post-workout.

I remember one halloween season where I just stuffed my face with candy corn along with a protein shake for my post workout nutrition.

Yeah, it's sugar and protein, so it "worked".

However, there's a difference between how effective one carb is compared to another, just depends how serious you are about your training goals I suppose.

Plus, would you actually want to chug some shitty non-alcoholic beer after a leg workout? I think I'd vomit...


#3

Avoid potential allergens. Pasta and saltines-wheat. Candy-artificial colors and possibly flavors. Beer-some say carbon dioxide.

Anyway, there is about a one hour window, but there is also a window of increased utilization lasting 4 hours, 12 hours etc.


#4

How about Smarties candy (dextrose) and whey protein?

Maybe I'll try that next time I run out of Surge.


#5

Grape juice, or pure malt sugar are both theoretically almost optimal post wo carbs.


#6

That's what I had for dinner.

Is what you are saying....why not just eat anything post workout? I think this has been done to death.

It must be time for another tedious is a calories just a calorie discussions.

I know Dave Barr, Lonnie, JB etc etc will have a shit fit when I say this but nutrition really is a no brainer. If you have any cop on whatsoever it's pretty easy to make the right choices no matter what your goals are. You can pretty much teach anyone with any semblence of intelligence everything they need to know about sports nutrition in an hour.


#7

Hey Baurer-a hamburger patty and a na beer pwo is great

that is how I came up with the idea

actually I thought grape juice would not work as it is frutose which goes to your liver not your muscles

allergens are not an issue

na beer comes from wheat so I say it's ok..


#8

Fructose is named based on its presence in fruit, however, that does not mean that the majority of the sugar in fruit is fructose and in fact with many including grapes it is not.


#9

NA Beer? WTF? Nothing is better after a hard-fought hockey game than 5 or 6 beers...the real stuff!


#10

That's true, but high-fructose corn syrup is the major sweetener in most candy which makes it bad for postworkout.


#11

Yea I said grape juice, and I never recommended high fructose corn syrup, however the fructose thing is not so straightforward anyway. We are actually dealing with 3 things here: 1 how fast the sugar enters the blood 2 how fast your glucose levels spike and 3 what kind of insulin response you get.

Fructose may actually preferrentially reload liver glycogen as only the liver can use it directly. I am not recommending anyone use fructose though, just that there are some interesting questions here like if you have been on a carb depletion diet, you can in theory restore liver glycogen first without turning off the effects of ketogenesis, and then more quickly load the muscles with glucose-because it wont have to be split between liver and muscles as you have already filled up the liver. Probably complicated in practice though.


#12

Another issue with some of the foods listed here is water. If the post workout meal is too concentrated, you pull water out of the blood, which pulls water out of the muscles which pushed sugar, amino acids and electrolytes out of the muscle to compensate. 36-48 ounces of fluid is probably a good guideline.


#13

Friday night pwo nutrition consists of 1 cheeseburger, a shit-ton of fries, beer, beer, more beer, pizza, and more beer.


#14

Somewhere on elitefts I read an exchange between Jim and Dave, I think, and the jist of it was PWO shakes are great, but if you just go and eat a couple whole pizzas PWO, which is going to put more mass on you? They said the pizzas.

I tend to agree, however, I think a good PWO shake, ahem SURGE, ahem, before and after and then an hour later a couple pizzas would be even better.


#15

What do you guys think about the Bars and some gatorade post workout. When Surge was out of stock I had to order some other product, had I known the bars contained whey hydro I would've order some of those and down it with gatorade.

Does it make a difference if you use whey concentrate compared to whey hydro? What's the most important ingredient post workout besides the protien, the sugars, glutamine, or anything else in them?

Also anyone have any expierence with other products? Should I piss on it now that Surge is back in stock? Surge is pretty expensive and right now I can't really afford it, but could if it was VIP (very important protein).


#16

Gatorade is too concentrated. Add a protein bar and you get an even more hypertonic stomach content. Refill the Gatorade bottle with water and drink that too and its probably good, if the bar is giving you around 20-30 grams of protein minimum and has very little fat.

Remember, you need to eat again within an hour.


#17

I could never come to terms with the justification of Surge preworkout. First, local acute glycogen depletion is probably what creates the window of opportunity in the first place. If you take a Surge, and then lift, you may comprimise the local glycogen depletion. Also, I couldn't drink Surge and then go squat heavy. I could see getting started on a Surge maybe around halfway through the workout-very dilute-and maybe doing some ligher, higher rep stuff to keep the blood flowing for the last 15 minutes of training.

What about just protein in the 1-2 hours before lifting? Then you don't cancell out the carb depletion, but the AA's are sitting there in your bloodstream for active transport during training, and can just get pushed in when you get your PWO Surge.

Anyway, I asked Berardi or Barr about this (can't remember for sure) and I think Barr told me that it wasn't probably about local glycogen depletion, and that at any rate, the results people were seeing justified the pre-workout Surge. I can easily take protein pre-workout, but sugar tends to increase acid production for me-or maybe there is some citric acid in the surge?


#18

I think the effects of the hypertonic stomach contents are probably only a problem if the sodium concentration is low. Adding table something on the order of 100 mmol Na/L would likely offset the response, however, I'm extrapolating from a study that did not test that parameter precisely.

I just got done refamiliarizing myself with this study, so it happened to be on my mind. (Perhaps it's like the adage, to man with only a hammer in his toolkit, every problem looks like a nail.)

Effect of sodium in a rehydration beverage when consumed as a fluid or meal. Journal of Applied Physiology ,85 (4), 1329-1336.


#19

Those are interesting points and I pretty much agree with you. I'm not convinced glycogen depletion is all that important for our purposes. This is sort of a shot in the dark, seeing as how I don't have an exercise phys. textbook and I'm too lazy to dig up references. But I think a preworkout drink is going to give you an increase in insulin, increase in glycogen synthesis, along with all the other usual physiological effects. The onset of exercise is going to see those insulin levels go down, while non insulin mediated effects at the working muscle and liver are going to see blood sugar go down with possibly hypoglycemia as a result. (especially with the increase in carb oxidation from the the sudden rise in 'slin and CHO preworkout) I recall the Barrbary Pirate saying something about using table sugar to keep blood CHO up, and that seems reasonable.

The best part is as the adrenergic effects of exercise subside and the stomach empties, along with insulin levels coming back up, you're going to get the effects of the preworkout drink, including, according to a study I can't recall the particulars of, better utilization of subsequent postworkout protein. That leads me to say that, as you suggested, preworkout protein alone would also have benefit.

I thought I read somewhere once that the rate of change of CHO or protein concentration was perhaps more important then the absolute concentrations, probably above some threshold of neccesity of course. I would think, without looking at any data that you're going to see larger, faster changes in concentration with the preworkout drink, perhaps because GLUT4 expression is increased from exercise during the precise time when the gut's given' up the goods.

That was a hodgepodge of crap, I hope some of it made sense.


#20

Bottle of wine and a pound of fish. Works wonders on me.