T Nation

Why Not Hilary?

Disclaimer: This is in no way putting my support behind Hilary Clinton as a presidential candidate.

When I look at the GOP line-up, I can name at least one thing I don’t like, usually many things, about what the candidates say they are going to do. While I understand Hilary comes off as incredibly insincere and power hungry, she isn’t much worse than most politicians. I’m asking my conservative friends, why don’t you like her? I see the argument against Obama, he’s indecisive, no experience, ect…

But Hilary has by far the most experience and connections needed to be an effective President (not that she’d make a good one, just an effective one). I recently realized I’d never actually heard the real argument against her, and I’m curious.

What about her voting record, or her campaign platform do you dislike in particular? What has she said she will do as President that you dislike? I’ve heard the whole “She’s crazy” and "She’d end up doing this and this and this), but what about her actual message is not to like? What about her period as a NY Senator rubs you guys the wrong way?

I’ve just never actually heard anyone give real reasons why she would make a “crazy bitch” of a president.

And, of course, I’ll gladly answer any questions about the GOP candidates individually; I will say what I do not like about their platforms, if asked.

I know you are looking for stuff like “in 1997 she did this…”, but I personally think she’s a crazy bitch. Having known some guys who were with HMX-1 during the Clinton years (Tha’s the Marine helicopter squadron that flies the President around), to a person she is described as EXTREMELY foul-mouthed (that’s bad when a Marine says that) and that she has ABSOLUTELY ZERO respect for the military and routinely directed this mouth at the military guys who swear to protect her and her husband with their lives.

I would love to see Condi and her debate. Condi would eat her lunch. If Condi ran I’d vote for her. Hillary says whatever the present crowd wants to hear. I believe her platform will be tailor-made to get votes (she’ll say anything), and quickly forgotten.

It doesn’t matter, she won’t even be the Dems candidate. It’s going to be Obama or Edwards. I don’t care what the polls say, when it comes down to actually making a vote that counts, many of her supporters will say “I just can’t do it” and vote for someone else.

No, I don’t have any hard facts to support my reasons for not liking her. I already know I won’t vote for her no matter what, so I really don’t follow her much.


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[quote]Beowolf wrote:
Disclaimer: This is in no way putting my support behind Hilary Clinton as a presidential candidate.

When I look at the GOP line-up, I can name at least one thing I don’t like, usually many things, about what the candidates say they are going to do. While I understand Hilary comes off as incredibly insincere and power hungry, she isn’t much worse than most politicians. I’m asking my conservative friends, why don’t you like her? I see the argument against Obama, he’s indecisive, no experience, ect…

But Hilary has by far the most experience and connections needed to be an effective President (not that she’d make a good one, just an effective one). I recently realized I’d never actually heard the real argument against her, and I’m curious.

What about her voting record, or her campaign platform do you dislike in particular? What has she said she will do as President that you dislike? I’ve heard the whole “She’s crazy” and "She’d end up doing this and this and this), but what about her actual message is not to like? What about her period as a NY Senator rubs you guys the wrong way?

I’ve just never actually heard anyone give real reasons why she would make a “crazy bitch” of a president.

And, of course, I’ll gladly answer any questions about the GOP candidates individually; I will say what I do not like about their platforms, if asked.[/quote]

Beowolf,

If you are seriously interested here is a pretty good discussion (scroll down)

www.gonemild.com/2004/11/why-do-they-hate-hillary-clinton-so.html

I for one, am thrilled that she will be the nominee.

The electoral map stacks up against her BIG TIME.

hillary’s supporters assume that women will come to her side based on gender.

You watch, they’ll abandon her in droves. I’ll bet quite a few are insulted by her assuming their vote.
Women just aren’t that stupid.

Further, many women can see right through her. Many women are suspicious that she only married billy boy (and stayed with him) to trade off the name. They don’t have a lot of respect for someone who tolerates infidelity.

In the end, her genitalia won’t save her.

As you know, most men outright HATE her. From her dumping on traditional values “I could have stayed home and baked cookies.” To her arrogant and pathetic attempt (unelected I might add) to reform health care. To her myriad of quotes that sound like communism.

I’m salivating at the opportunity to oppose her. We Republicans know that dems are ruthless when someone loses a Presidential nomination.

When she loses, she’s finished. She’ll become a pathetic shell flailing in the wilderness (gore/kerry/mondale/dukakis).

JeffR

Heres hoping Mike Gravel becomes a dark horse…

I think I count myself in PGJ’s “I just can’t do it” area. Gah.

But still, any particular policies? For some reason, that link is being blocked by our “protection from obscenity” wall, that lets through porn… go figure. I’ll check it at home then.

Besides the quotes and the insincerity and the arrogance, what about her policy?

I’m not looking for “In 1995 she did this…” I’m looking for “She’d do this, and I wouldn’t like that because of this…”

I don’t think it IS any specific reason, Beowulf.

I think it’s mostly that Hilary is completely, totally power-hungry, and is seeking the White House purely for the power and glory of it.

That’s not unusual for politicians, but Hilary is particularly bad about this. She really doesn’t hide her ambitions well, and based on her prior campaigns, she’s shown that she’s the type of person who would look you straight in the eye and lie to you without blinking. She’s the type of politician who will say anything to anyone in order to get a vote.

Again, most, if not all politicians do this to some degree, but very few do it as badly Hilary does.

Now add in the fact that in her time as First Lady and Senator, we’ve seen enough glimpses into her “real” personality to see that she’s damn-near socialist in her beliefs (don’t let her recent move to a more moderate stance fool you, it’s merely decorative; Hilary is FAR left), and you have a candidate for president that is reviled by a great many voters.

You know that phrase “The only good candidates for president are the people who don’t want to be president”? Well, Hilary not only wants to be presidents, she needs to be president for her own ego. She is the LAST type of person that I would want in the White House.

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
Heres hoping Mike Gravel becomes a dark horse…

I think I count myself in PGJ’s “I just can’t do it” area. Gah.

But still, any particular policies? For some reason, that link is being blocked by our “protection from obscenity” wall, that lets through porn… go figure. I’ll check it at home then.

Besides the quotes and the insincerity and the arrogance, what about her policy?

I’m not looking for “In 1995 she did this…” I’m looking for “She’d do this, and I wouldn’t like that because of this…”[/quote]

I honestly don’t think she has any policies. I believe she will say whatever it takes to get the votes. At least when President Bush says “I’m going to do this…”, he does it. Wether you agree or not, the man does what he says he’s going to do.

There are better Democratic candidates out there (I like Lieberman as a Dem). It has nothing to do with gender. I think Condi is the best Conservative available and would win the GOP easily if she wanted to.

Hillary frightens me in a political sense.

A fair question, and others have mentioned similar stuff…

  1. Politics is awfully polarized right now, and she will do nothing to improve that.

  2. Her health care ambitions are bad policy.

  3. She is a changeling - I prefer to know what I am getting, especially when it comes to national security. She seems like she will take whatever position is necessary to get elected.

The old rule is that some people want to be president, and others want to do the work of the Presidency. Most politicians are the former, it’s true - but she just seems especially awful at lusting for the office just for the sake of having the office.

  1. She is a harpy - and I don’t think she would do well under pressure. What happens when people start carping that she isn’t her husband? The comparisons would be inevitable - and I don’t think she would handle it well.

She needs to have her eyes focued on problems - but I think she would be too distracted by her legacy.

  1. She lacks something that sets her apart - whether it be steely-eyed nerve or charm or something, she just does not have anything that makes her “special” for a leadership job (I realize I am being picky as hell, there is a shortage of that generally as well).

That said, I will likely vote in the Democratic primary in the state I live in when it rolls around. Hillary does have a policy depth that sets her apart from other Democratic candidates - and assuming Richardson is out of it by then (which I would be sad to see), I would do my part to make sure Hillary gets the bid over Obama. An Obama presidency would be worse that a Hillary presidency, in my view.

She reminds me too much of Livia, the wife of Caesar Augustus, who killed most of his family so her son, by another marriage, became emporer.

Power-hungry people usually don’t have the interests of the country at heart.

That, and Vince Foster…

Summary of candidate positions.

http://www.selectsmart.com/president/2008/comparethem.html

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
I’ve just never actually heard anyone give real reasons why she would make a “crazy bitch” of a president.
[/quote]

I know I don’t fall into the conservative camp but I will say why I do not want her to be nominated.

  1. she seems too insincere.

  2. she has no real policy (other than perhaps health care) that I have heard her talk about.

  3. she is just a legacy from her husband and I don’t think that is good (at this time) for the this country.

  4. I don’t think she has the guts to just say what she means (of mean what she says) which is the most important thing we should see in a presidential candidate–not just spouting rhetoric to get the votes.

  5. she voted to go to war with a country that was never a threat to us–which shows ultimately a lack of judgement.

  6. and…she can’t even play the sax.

[quote]hedo wrote:
Summary of candidate positions.

http://www.selectsmart.com/president/2008/comparethem.html[/quote]

Very interesting. I did that candidate selectorat the end to figure out who my ideal candidate would be. Came out Duncan Hunter at 87%. Who is that? Obama came out last at 9%. Hillary was at 21%.

[quote]lIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
I’ve just never actually heard anyone give real reasons why she would make a “crazy bitch” of a president.

I know I don’t fall into the conservative camp but I will say why I do not want her to be nominated.

  1. she seems too insincere.

  2. she has no real policy (other than perhaps health care) that I have heard her talk about.

  3. she is just a legacy from her husband and I don’t think that is good (at this time) for the this country.

  4. I don’t think she has the guts to just say what she means (of mean what she says) which is the most important thing we should see in a presidential candidate–not just spouting rhetoric to get the votes.

  5. she voted to go to war with a country that was never a threat to us–which shows ultimately a lack of judgement.

  6. and…she can’t even play the sax.[/quote]

liftus,

I’m very curious to see if any of you die-hard dems will give Rudy a sniff.

He was the only candidate in the recent debate who was pro-choice and certainly the only one who donated to planned parenthood.

He also is known for speaking his mind.

He meets many of your stated criteria.

I’m guessing most of the dems who claim to have an open mind and insist they vote the person and not the party, are just windbags.

However, I’d be glad to be wrong.

JeffR

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

  1. and…she can’t even play the sax.[/quote]

I hear she plays a mean skin-flute and was first chair meat whistle in her high school marching band.

That could be just a rumor.

[quote]PGJ wrote:
hedo wrote:
Summary of candidate positions.

http://www.selectsmart.com/president/2008/comparethem.html

Very interesting. I did that candidate selectorat the end to figure out who my ideal candidate would be. Came out Duncan Hunter at 87%. Who is that? Obama came out last at 9%. Hillary was at 21%.

[/quote]

Former California Congressman. Ex-Ranger.

Good guy but a long shot.

Tancredo? Never heard of him but I got 79%.

McCain is my highest major candidate.

[quote]JeffR wrote:
I’m very curious to see if any of you die-hard dems will give Rudy a sniff.
[/quote]

I am not a dem…though I have voted that way since 2000. I am favoring Ron Paul for the Republican bid and Gravel for the democratic but will probably vote green this time around since there are no candidates that I think could be as bad as Bush ever was.

If any democrat other than Gravel, Edwards, Richardson, or Kucinich get nominated I am voting green unless Ron Paul makes it past the primaries.

You might be wrong but it’s too early to tell yet.

To me, elections are a farce. Its good we get to choose but it seems like deciding on Velveta verses that out-of-the-can, spray shit…they both are completely artificial and leave an awful taste in the mouth as well as guilt for having been taken by the flashy packaging.

[quote]PGJ wrote:
I hear she plays a mean skin-flute and was first chair meat whistle in her high school marching band.

That could be just a rumor.

[/quote]
well then i just might have to vote for her.

[quote]lIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
JeffR wrote:
I’m very curious to see if any of you die-hard dems will give Rudy a sniff.

I am not a dem…though I have voted that way since 2000. I am favoring Ron Paul for the Republican bid and Gravel for the democratic but will probably vote green this time around since there are no candidates that I think could be as bad as Bush ever was.

If any democrat other than Gravel, Edwards, Richardson, or Kucinich get nominated I am voting green unless Ron Paul makes it past the primaries.

However, I’d be glad to be wrong.

You might be wrong but it’s too early to tell yet.

To me, elections are a farce. Its good we get to choose but it seems like deciding on Velveta verses that out-of-the-can, spray shit…they both are completely artificial and leave an awful taste in the mouth as well as guilt for having been taken by the flashy packaging. [/quote]

liftus,

Thanks for the response. However, I was hoping you’d take a peek at Rudy. He’s definetly not business as usual.

Being a great fan of Theodore Roosevelt, I have a true fondness for guys who are able to clean up New York.

JeffR

[quote]PGJ wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

  1. and…she can’t even play the sax.

I hear she plays a mean skin-flute and was first chair meat whistle in her high school marching band.
[/quote]

That’s not what Bill said.