Why Israel Attacked the USS Liberty

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
John S. wrote:
lixy wrote:
John S. wrote:
What the fuck would Israel have to gain by attacking us? It was an obvious mistake. Seems people are really pulling at straws to prove that Jews are somehow evil.

Don’t apply the current situation to what happened decades ago.

Watch this hour-long BBC documentary to get better acquainted with the tragic “incident”.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6595846710992512471

If it wasn’t for us there would be no Israel right now. They have no reason to attack us. Maybe some of you should pull your heads out of your asses and realize that Israel would gain nothing and lose everything if this was intentional.

Kind of like Jonathan Pollard?
[/quote]

Jonathan Pollard was to be expected. Do you honestly believe we do not have spies in are allies country’s? Come on now we are really grasping for some reason to hate jews now arnt we.

[quote]John S. wrote:
Jonathan Pollard was to be expected. Do you honestly believe we do not have spies in are allies country’s? [/quote]

I honestly doubt the CIA could hold a (Sabbath?) candle to the Mossad.

Anyway, your argument is fallacious and your spelling horrendous. You need to do something about your logic and orthography. It’s becoming painful to read your posts.

What’s religion gotta do with anything here?

[quote]lixy wrote:
John S. wrote:
Jonathan Pollard was to be expected. Do you honestly believe we do not have spies in are allies country’s?

I honestly doubt the CIA could hold a (Sabbath?) candle to the Mossad.

Anyway, your argument is fallacious and your spelling horrendous. You need to do something about your logic and orthography. It’s becoming painful to read your posts.

Come on now we are really grasping for some reason to hate jews now arnt we.

What’s religion gotta do with anything here?[/quote]

It was late when I wrote that so sorry about the spelling but I will be more then happy to break shit down for you.

Jonathan Pollard was an Israeli spy in the USA. He got caught. Some people are trying to say that Israel is bad for having spy’s in its allies country’s. But the fact of the matter is we have spy’s in are allies country’s too, as do are allies have spy’s in are country.

Now you see Israel is a Jewish nation. Now I know you already know that because your religion has had a Jihad on them for quite some time.

[quote]John S. wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
John S. wrote:
lixy wrote:
John S. wrote:
What the fuck would Israel have to gain by attacking us? It was an obvious mistake. Seems people are really pulling at straws to prove that Jews are somehow evil.

Don’t apply the current situation to what happened decades ago.

Watch this hour-long BBC documentary to get better acquainted with the tragic “incident”.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6595846710992512471

If it wasn’t for us there would be no Israel right now. They have no reason to attack us. Maybe some of you should pull your heads out of your asses and realize that Israel would gain nothing and lose everything if this was intentional.

Kind of like Jonathan Pollard?

Jonathan Pollard was to be expected. Do you honestly believe we do not have spies in are allies country’s? Come on now we are really grasping for some reason to hate jews now arnt we.[/quote]

First off, I’m assuming you’ve gone to college, the difference between “are” and “our” shouldn’t be that tough.

I’m not “grasping for some reason to hate Jews”, I’m just noting that Israel has fucked us in the past, and repeatedly. To pretend they’re an American ally, when it’s an incredibly one-sided relationship, is silly.

And the story of the attack on the USS Liberty is far from a conspiracy theory. Read a bit.

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
John S. wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
John S. wrote:
lixy wrote:
John S. wrote:
What the fuck would Israel have to gain by attacking us? It was an obvious mistake. Seems people are really pulling at straws to prove that Jews are somehow evil.

Don’t apply the current situation to what happened decades ago.

Watch this hour-long BBC documentary to get better acquainted with the tragic “incident”.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6595846710992512471

If it wasn’t for us there would be no Israel right now. They have no reason to attack us. Maybe some of you should pull your heads out of your asses and realize that Israel would gain nothing and lose everything if this was intentional.

Kind of like Jonathan Pollard?

Jonathan Pollard was to be expected. Do you honestly believe we do not have spies in are allies country’s? Come on now we are really grasping for some reason to hate jews now arnt we.

First off, I’m assuming you’ve gone to college, the difference between “are” and “our” shouldn’t be that tough.

I’m not “grasping for some reason to hate Jews”, I’m just noting that Israel has fucked us in the past, and repeatedly. To pretend they’re an American ally, when it’s an incredibly one-sided relationship, is silly.

And the story of the attack on the USS Liberty is far from a conspiracy theory. Read a bit.[/quote]

I can already see I am frustrating the hell out of you if you are going to pick on me saying are not our. You think that Israel is a one sided ally? They will be a major help when the middle east finally implodes on itself. The USS Liberty was an accident, if you bothered to read it without this I hate Israel mentality you will clearly see its a mistake.

when Israel didn’t want to participate in “the war on terror” we should have buried the hatchet with several of our old cold war enemies like we did with Lybia.

Lybia saw benefits in becoming an ally of the West.

Saddam was supposed to be this great ally of the US during the Iran Iraq war in the 80’s yet they bombed a US ship.

No one is looking for controvercy there, are they?

Maybe we were not allied with Iraq in the 80’s contrary to what US haters tend to believe.

Saddam was supposed to be this great ally of the US during the Iran Iraq war in the 80’s yet they bombed a US ship.

No one is looking for controvercy there, are they?

Maybe we were not allied with Iraq in the 80’s contrary to what US haters tend to believe. haters tend to believe.

Seeing as the Cold War was in full swing at this time, having a US ship sunk and blaming it on Egypt would have given America an excellent excuse to enter the Middle-Eastern conflict.

Completely walking over the Arab coalition attacking Israel, occupying, and setting up permanent bases would have given the United States an excellent strategic advantage against the USSR.

Given the bigger picture, there’s really not much wrong with this. Deception is used to enter into war all the time. You can’t get people behind a war for “strategic” reasons or “national interest”, the people need to believe they are under attack.

ElbowStrike

[quote]John S. wrote:
I can already see I am frustrating the hell out of you if you are going to pick on me saying are not our. [/quote]

To be fair, you did that thrice. And let’s not forget “allies” and “country’s”.

It doesn’t weaken your arguments, but it doesn’t necessarily make you come off as a serious debater either.

I am still not able to understand why you brought up religion when addressing Gdollars.

Anyway, your America might have spies too is not an argument at all. It’s a perfect example of a strawman. You are operating under the premise your interlocutor thinks the US has the best of intentions and is the most “noble” and “moral” country on Earth. And even a blind patriot who assumes that can see that there is no way the CIA can pull it off. The Mossad is superior in terms of cunning and ruthlessness. Plus, how much money does Israel give the USA? Hell, is there a group lobbying for the benefit of the American people at the Israeli government? So, in theory, the US shouldn’t be held to same standards as Israel. The relationship is not exactly symbiotic. With that and Pollard’s case in mind, your “logic” that “Israel would gain nothing and lose everything if this was intentional” takes a blow.

Trust me: you don’t know everything. Trickery and deceit are essential in politics. I am not saying the Israelis did it intentionally, but don’t pretend that there can be absolutely no motive for the attack when you so clearly lack basic knowledge to be able to analyze the situation.

There is a good deal of secrecy surrounding the issue, and I’m sure that when documents finally surface, everybody who was there would have died anyway. People will probably be too busy learning about Britney’s out-of-control kids and the story will be just forgotten. How often do you hear people bring up the 2nd Tonkin attack nowadays?

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Saddam was supposed to be this great ally of the US during the Iran Iraq war in the 80’s yet they bombed a US ship. [/quote]

The US and Iraq have never been best pals. Nobody’s saying otherwise. In fact, up until the 80s, the relationship has been frosty at best. As we all know, the US did take Iraq out of their “terrorism” list just in time to allow for shipment of weapons (including precursors of the chemical weapons he used on so many people).

Iraq was seen as an ally only because it was effective at slaughtering Iranians.

There are plenty of declassified documents if you’re interested.

Maybe those traitors at the National Security Archive of George Washington University have forged the documents in an effort to undermine the patriots. Anything’s possible really.

US haters.

[quote]lixy wrote:

Trust me: you don’t know everything. Trickery and deceit are essential in politics. I am not saying the Israelis did it intentionally, but don’t pretend that there can be absolutely no motive for the attack when you so clearly lack basic knowledge to be able to analyze the situation.

There is a good deal of secrecy surrounding the issue, …[/quote]

Hear, hear!

[quote]lixy wrote:

It doesn’t weaken your arguments, but it doesn’t necessarily make you come off as a serious debater either.[/quote]

Heh. As such a devoted fan of irony, Lixy - you must be beside yourself when you read…well…yourself.

[quote]ElbowStrike wrote:
Seeing as the Cold War was in full swing at this time, having a US ship sunk and blaming it on Egypt would have given America an excellent excuse to enter the Middle-Eastern conflict.

Completely walking over the Arab coalition attacking Israel, occupying, and setting up permanent bases would have given the United States an excellent strategic advantage against the USSR.

Given the bigger picture, there’s really not much wrong with this. Deception is used to enter into war all the time. You can’t get people behind a war for “strategic” reasons or “national interest”, the people need to believe they are under attack.

ElbowStrike[/quote]

But none of this happened, and no one party even moved in that direction in June 1967! Israel immediately admitted the error, never blamed Egypt, paid reparations eventually, and the US did not need a pretext to set up permanent bases…it has them anyway nearby and uses Haifa as needed.

So other than being wrong on every point, ElbowStrike, how did this comment help us understand motivation on Israel’s part? It didn’t because there was no motivation for the attack. It was a mistake at every level.

And John S.: you are again correct. Before Johnathan Pollard, the CIA had turned an Israeli in Israel to work for the CIA, for dollars. Friendly nations spy on each other all the time. It is cheaper than starting from scratch. And Pay no attention to Lixy, a gasbag who would not now a fact from his ass when it comes to these matters.

[quote]lixy wrote:
John S. wrote:
I can already see I am frustrating the hell out of you if you are going to pick on me saying are not our.

To be fair, you did that thrice. And let’s not forget “allies” and “country’s”.

It doesn’t weaken your arguments, but it doesn’t necessarily make you come off as a serious debater either.

You think that Israel is a one sided ally? They will be a major help when the middle east finally implodes on itself. The USS Liberty was an accident, if you bothered to read it without this I hate Israel mentality you will clearly see its a mistake.

I am still not able to understand why you brought up religion when addressing Gdollars.

Anyway, your America might have spies too is not an argument at all. It’s a perfect example of a strawman. You are operating under the premise your interlocutor thinks the US has the best of intentions and is the most “noble” and “moral” country on Earth. And even a blind patriot who assumes that can see that there is no way the CIA can pull it off. The Mossad is superior in terms of cunning and ruthlessness. Plus, how much money does Israel give the USA? Hell, is there a group lobbying for the benefit of the American people at the Israeli government? So, in theory, the US shouldn’t be held to same standards as Israel. The relationship is not exactly symbiotic. With that and Pollard’s case in mind, your “logic” that “Israel would gain nothing and lose everything if this was intentional” takes a blow.

Trust me: you don’t know everything. Trickery and deceit are essential in politics. I am not saying the Israelis did it intentionally, but don’t pretend that there can be absolutely no motive for the attack when you so clearly lack basic knowledge to be able to analyze the situation.

There is a good deal of secrecy surrounding the issue, and I’m sure that when documents finally surface, everybody who was there would have died anyway. People will probably be too busy learning about Britney’s out-of-control kids and the story will be just forgotten. How often do you hear people bring up the 2nd Tonkin attack nowadays?[/quote]

Lixy, Please explain to me in your infinite wisdom what Israel would gain. See the Israelis are smarter then your Jihadist friends and they realized if you attack America shit ends up happening to your country. The last country that attacked us at that time ended up having two atomic weapons dropped on them. The fact of the matter is a bunch of people do not like Israel and want to believe they are some evil empire.

This may come as a surprise, DrSkeptix, but I don’t read all previous posts in every thread I post in, so I had skimmed over your very informative Wiki submissions.

As for my post I was simply pointing out to the conspiracy-theory crowd that even if their version of events were true, sinking a US ship and blaming it on the Arabs would’ve been a good move in furthering America’s position in the Cold War (not a sign that Evil Israel is controlling America).

ElbowStrike

[quote]ElbowStrike wrote:
This may come as a surprise, DrSkeptix, but I don’t read all previous posts in every thread I post in, so I had skimmed over your very informative Wiki submissions.

As for my post I was simply pointing out to the conspiracy-theory crowd that even if their version of events were true, sinking a US ship and blaming it on the Arabs would’ve been a good move in furthering America’s position in the Cold War (not a sign that Evil Israel is controlling America).

ElbowStrike[/quote]

Then, I stand corrected; my apologies, sir!

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:
Then, I stand corrected; my apologies, sir![/quote]

No worries.

[quote]ElbowStrike wrote:
Seeing as the Cold War was in full swing at this time, having a US ship sunk and blaming it on Egypt would have given America an excellent excuse to enter the Middle-Eastern conflict.

Completely walking over the Arab coalition attacking Israel, occupying, and setting up permanent bases would have given the United States an excellent strategic advantage against the USSR.

Given the bigger picture, there’s really not much wrong with this. Deception is used to enter into war all the time. You can’t get people behind a war for “strategic” reasons or “national interest”, the people need to believe they are under attack.

ElbowStrike[/quote]

So what you’re basically saying is that it’s acceptable to have defenseless american marines butchered in cold blood, as long as it serves the interests of a third party ( in your version, USA)

So, if your dad was a marine( or your mother if this was taking place today)and was murdered by the US administration, you would welcome the move as long as it would benefit the US in the long run.

Really.

I would like to remind you that our ancestors fought and gave their lives in past wars so their children would have the right to be treated as human beings with inaleniable rights.

You, their child, would now rather give all that away.

Maybe we could make an exception for your ilk when it comes to enforcing Geneva conventions?

Egyptian, American and British[quote]John S. wrote:

Lixy, Please explain to me in your infinite wisdom what Israel would gain. See the Israelis are smarter then your Jihadist friends and they realized if you attack America shit ends up happening to your country. The last country that attacked us at that time ended up having two atomic weapons dropped on them.[/quote]

Well, they planned on putting the blame on the Egyptians, and were counting on not being found out.

The US would have crushed Egypt, and they wouldn’t have had to fight the war themselves.

It’s called a FALSE FLAG OPERATION, and Israel-Mossad has perfected this technique to an art.

The best example is the LAVON AFFAIR of 1954.

The goal of the Operation was to carry out bombings of Egyptian, American and British institutions, and other acts of sabotage in Egypt in order to wreck relations between the US-England and Egypt.

After a few early succeses, an Israeli agent disguised in Arab clothes was arrested as the bomb he was carrying accidentally ignited prematurely in his pocket, and the whole network of agents was captured.

The fiasco became known as the Lavon Affair after the Israeli defense minister Pinhas Lavon, was forced to resign because of the incident.

Israel lost significant standing and credibility in its relations with the United Kingdom and the United States as a result ( that would take years to repair) and the tactics of the operation led to deep-seated suspicion of Israeli intelligence methods, such as agents provocateurs and false flag operations.

It took Israel 51 bloody years to at least admit responsablity.

Guess they thought they could hush it too, like they are doing now with the USS LIBERTY.

PS: it’s all documented, and even Wikipedia couldn’t deny it. Lavon Affair - Wikipedia

Another example of Israeli false flag operation is the bombing of the KING DAVID Hotel in 1946,
which killed 92 britons, arabs and jews and wounded 58.

It’s purpose was to embroil arab-british relations, to destroy sensitive intelligence documents relating to earlier Israeli terrorist activity and to eventually force the British out of Palestine.

The King David Hotel was used as an office housing the Secretariat of the Palestine Government and British Army Headquarters. The attack was made on 22 July at about 12 o’clock noon when offices are usually in full swing. The attackers, disguised as milkmen in Arab clothing, carried the explosives in milk containers, placed them in the basement of the Hotel and ran away.

Even today, the Israeli governement CELEBRATES the bombing as a pivotal date in the creation of Israel: Netanyahu said himself at the 2006 commemoration that " the bombing was morally justifiable" and that “It’s very important to make the distinction between terror groups and freedom fighters, and between terror action and legitimate military action” (sic)
http://www.google.be/search?hl=fr&q=king+david+hotel+bombing&btnG=Recherche+Google&meta=