well thats according to Wendler if you read how to build pure strength. I been using both methods. volume with wsfsb and just the percentages from his program. Should it be changed if so I would change to 5/3/1 since i been doing wsfsb for a year.
I think he means the dynamic days are not part of 531 and do not fit into the program (speed benching/dynamic box squats etc). Secondly, I have done both separately and the volume is comparable, if not more in 531.
It’s not necessarily that a mix of 5-3-1 and WSFSB would be a bad program, but it wouldn’t be 5-3-1, it would be something else. Here’s a quote from the article you mentioned:
[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
If you want to see the results of 5/3/1, you have to do the program as written. As soon as you start customizing it, it’s no longer 5/3/1. You might like your own version of it better than Wendler’s original, but you can’t attribute your success or failure to the guy who wrote the program unless you’re actually doing the program as he wrote it.
[/quote]
My suggestion is that if you’re curious about 5-3-1 start with doing it the way it’s written. Do it for a while, evaluate, then decide if you want to change things. Once you’ve done a program for a while and have a feel for it you can start customizing it a little, but if you start changing too much at once you won’t learn what worked and what didn’t.
[quote]elih8er wrote:
I think he means the dynamic days are not part of 531 and do not fit into the program (speed benching/dynamic box squats etc). Secondly, I have done both separately and the volume is comparable, if not more in 531. [/quote]
Well I do dynamic legs only(box jumps)… Like I said im only doing the percentages from 5/3/1.First I would like to say im not a raw powerlifter so yes i box squat with 5/3/1 percentages which I feel carry over to deadlift and just my athletic training. As for volume 5/3/1 alone does not have reardelts,biceps unless you include them which would make you replace a dumbell bench. and only 2 accesory excercise.
Ex
5/3/1 bench
5/3/1 main excercise bench 135x5 185x5 225x10(real workout)
dipx5
chinupsx5
total x13 sets the first 2 of main excercise usally are not hard so don’t count.
Wsfsb would look like this(working to 5rm)
95x8 135x5 135x5 155x5 185x5 205x5 225x5 255x5
vertical pulling x3
trap x3
reardelt x3
armsx3
you do that 2 days a week.
I don’t really see how voume compares to wsfsb although wsfsb is not made for raw powerlifters thats why I felt like using 5/3/1 program to get stronger(meathead) strength and everything else for balance and more athletic.
[quote]Matsa wrote:
It’s not necessarily that a mix of 5-3-1 and WSFSB would be a bad program, but it wouldn’t be 5-3-1, it would be something else. Here’s a quote from the article you mentioned:
[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
If you want to see the results of 5/3/1, you have to do the program as written. As soon as you start customizing it, it’s no longer 5/3/1. You might like your own version of it better than Wendler’s original, but you can’t attribute your success or failure to the guy who wrote the program unless you’re actually doing the program as he wrote it.
[/quote]
My suggestion is that if you’re curious about 5-3-1 start with doing it the way it’s written. Do it for a while, evaluate, then decide if you want to change things. Once you’ve done a program for a while and have a feel for it you can start customizing it a little, but if you start changing too much at once you won’t learn what worked and what didn’t.[/quote]
For sure Im going to deload in week 4 because I only deload 5/3/1 mian excercise and i keep wsfsb accesory work high as always so that would be changing. I want to see how i progress. If not then I would do 5/3/1 alone which would work im sure but I won’t be working on my arms as much ill become more powerlifter strong if you know what I mean.
I’m sure in one of Defranco’s Ask Joe columns he said he was experimenting with subbing in the 5/3/1 rep scheme for the max effort lower body day and the max effort upper body day.
Yeah, DeFranco’s hybridized the two, so it’s not necessarily a bad thing. It’s just that you should familiarize yourself with both first. WS4SB is a linear progression as far as loading goes, so there will eventually be plateaus (the rotational exercise thing only works for so long, which is part of the reason why Joe D only uses this program for short-term off-season clients). When that happens, you can keep the basic integrity of the program, but use a periodized loading scheme like 5/3/1 to keep going.
Honestly, this is what I’d do:
WS4SB until plateau
5/3/1 cycle
Hybridization of the two…
That might take two or three years to complete fully, so hell… you might even want to go to something entirely different by the time you’ve exhausted both programs in their own right.
[quote]animus wrote:
Yeah, DeFranco’s hybridized the two, so it’s not necessarily a bad thing. It’s just that you should familiarize yourself with both first. WS4SB is a linear progression as far as loading goes, so there will eventually be plateaus (the rotational exercise thing only works for so long, which is part of the reason why Joe D only uses this program for short-term off-season clients). When that happens, you can keep the basic integrity of the program, but use a periodized loading scheme like 5/3/1 to keep going.
Honestly, this is what I’d do:
WS4SB until plateau
5/3/1 cycle
Hybridization of the two…
That might take two or three years to complete fully, so hell… you might even want to go to something entirely different by the time you’ve exhausted both programs in their own right.[/quote]
Thanks I started just 5/3/1 today without wsfsb. Though im getting weaker cause I been dieting.
[quote]motherofpearl wrote:
As for volume 5/3/1 alone does not have reardelts,biceps unless you include them which would make you replace a dumbell bench. and only 2 accesory excercise.
[/quote]
“Only two accessory exercises” is from the triumvirate. There are myriad combinations for 531. If you want to add more volume, do it. But have a reason for why you are adding in extra rear delt work (on top of the back work you already do) other than simply “more volume = better”
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
[quote]motherofpearl wrote:
As for volume 5/3/1 alone does not have reardelts,biceps unless you include them which would make you replace a dumbell bench. and only 2 accesory excercise.
[/quote]
“Only two accessory exercises” is from the triumvirate. There are myriad combinations for 531. If you want to add more volume, do it. But have a reason for why you are adding in extra rear delt work (on top of the back work you already do) other than simply “more volume = better”[/quote]
Well I would add it just to have bigger rear delts. I get what you are saying but how do you when the “extra” accessory is hurting your progress?
[quote]motherofpearl wrote:
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
[quote]motherofpearl wrote:
As for volume 5/3/1 alone does not have reardelts,biceps unless you include them which would make you replace a dumbell bench. and only 2 accesory excercise.
[/quote]
“Only two accessory exercises” is from the triumvirate. There are myriad combinations for 531. If you want to add more volume, do it. But have a reason for why you are adding in extra rear delt work (on top of the back work you already do) other than simply “more volume = better”[/quote]
Well I would add it just to have bigger rear delts. I get what you are saying but how do you when the “extra” accessory is hurting your progress?[/quote]
…when you no longer make progress on your main lifts.