T Nation

Why I'll Never Vote for Rudy

We look upon authority too often and focus over and over again, for 30 or 40 or 50 years, as if there is something wrong with authority. We see only the oppressive side of authority. Maybe it comes out of our history and our background. What we don?t see is that freedom is not a concept in which people can do anything they want, be anything they can be. Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do.
? Mayor Rudy Giuliani, 1994

What the hell? I really really hate democrats, but look what the other options are.

mike

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
We look upon authority too often and focus over and over again, for 30 or 40 or 50 years, as if there is something wrong with authority. We see only the oppressive side of authority. Maybe it comes out of our history and our background. What we don?t see is that freedom is not a concept in which people can do anything they want, be anything they can be. Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do.
? Mayor Rudy Giuliani, 1994

What the hell? I really really hate democrats, but look what the other options are.

mike[/quote]

More reasons: 9/11, Republican Convention, etc.

[quote]We look upon authority too often and focus over and over again, for 30 or 40 or 50 years, as if there is something wrong with authority. We see only the oppressive side of authority. Maybe it comes out of our history and our background. What we don?t see is that freedom is not a concept in which people can do anything they want, be anything they can be. Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do.

  • Mayor Rudy Giuliani, 1994
    [/quote]

Now, now Jeffro; both hands on the keyboard.

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
We look upon authority too often and focus over and over again, for 30 or 40 or 50 years, as if there is something wrong with authority. We see only the oppressive side of authority. Maybe it comes out of our history and our background. What we don?t see is that freedom is not a concept in which people can do anything they want, be anything they can be. Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do.
? Mayor Rudy Giuliani, 1994

What the hell? I really really hate democrats, but look what the other options are.

mike[/quote]

I’d like to see more of Fred Thompson, myself.

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
We look upon authority too often and focus over and over again, for 30 or 40 or 50 years, as if there is something wrong with authority. We see only the oppressive side of authority. Maybe it comes out of our history and our background. What we don?t see is that freedom is not a concept in which people can do anything they want, be anything they can be. Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do.
? Mayor Rudy Giuliani, 1994

What the hell? I really really hate democrats, but look what the other options are.

mike[/quote]

Mike,

Take a look at this board. The hardcore loons are lining up against this guy.

What does that tell you?

They know he’s formidable.

I meant to tell you that I can see both sides of your carrying argument the other day.

You must understand that walking around with your gun hanging out in public (especially post-911/columbine etc) is going to arouse some suspicion.

I see your point about personal freedoms. However, I hope you see the point of Law Enforcement.

Further, in time of war, every society has had curtailed personal freedoms.

As far as Rudy’s quote, I’m not sure what it is you are objecting to.

Perfect freedom is a myth.

The Founders believed in a strong Centralized Government.

Strong Federal Government, by it’s very nature, existed due to cessation of certain freedoms. Be it personal or state freedoms.

Taxation and military service come to mind.

I’m sorry, pal, I cannot imagine the Founders would object to protecting the very existence of our Republic. From enemies both foreign and domestic…

EVEN at the theoretical expense of some personal liberties.

You can take every example to the nth degree.

Most rational people acknowledge the existence of a sinister element in humankind. It needs to be curtailed, controlled, and at times, destroyed.

In summary, you go right ahead and vote the “Freedom” candidate.

I’ll vote the guy most likely to enforce laws–crime, immigration, domestic terrorism protection.

I’ll vote the guy most likely to understand what happened on 9/11. You can tell it changed him in dramatic ways.

JeffR

[quote]JeffR wrote:

I’ll vote the guy most likely to understand what happened on 9/11. You can tell it changed him in dramatic ways.

JeffR[/quote]

Voting for a guy so stupid he put our emergency crisis center in the WTC (resident at the time). A guy so stupid, he said (alleged) thank god George Bush is our president? (what, with the not doing anything to prevent 9/11 and all…) A guy so stupid he doesn’t even understand terrorism (see debate: attacks Ron Paul for saying something absolutely true.–translation:Rudy hasn’t read 9/11 report, hasn’t researched enemy who attacked his headquarters.)

Disclosure: I voted for Giuliani. Twice.

[quote]100meters wrote:
JeffR wrote:

I’ll vote the guy most likely to understand what happened on 9/11. You can tell it changed him in dramatic ways.

JeffR

Voting for a guy so stupid he put our emergency crisis center in the WTC (resident at the time). A guy so stupid, he said (alleged) thank god George Bush is our president? (what, with the not doing anything to prevent 9/11 and all…) A guy so stupid he doesn’t even understand terrorism (see debate: attacks Ron Paul for saying something absolutely true.–translation:Rudy hasn’t read 9/11 report, hasn’t researched enemy who attacked his headquarters.)

Disclosure: I voted for Giuliani. Twice.

[/quote]

lumpy,

Kudos to you for admitting your voting record. Good choice.

However, no one is fooled. You oppose him strictly on the grounds that he is running for the White House.

I’ll wait for someone else to bring those specific allegations against Rudy before destroying them.

My time is wasted on you.

JeffR

[quote]100meters wrote:
JeffR wrote:

I’ll vote the guy most likely to understand what happened on 9/11. You can tell it changed him in dramatic ways.

JeffR

Voting for a guy so stupid he put our emergency crisis center in the WTC (resident at the time). A guy so stupid, he said (alleged) thank god George Bush is our president? (what, with the not doing anything to prevent 9/11 and all…) A guy so stupid he doesn’t even understand terrorism (see debate: attacks Ron Paul for saying something absolutely true.–translation:Rudy hasn’t read 9/11 report, hasn’t researched enemy who attacked his headquarters.)

Disclosure: I voted for Giuliani. Twice.

[/quote]

Kerry lost…Mr. ‘Shoot-yourself-in-the-ass-and-get-a-medal’ lost (a guy at my church was a Swifty and knows the whole story). Get over it already.
You’re getting as bad as Wreckless with your frothing hatreds.

[quote]JeffR wrote:
100meters wrote:
JeffR wrote:

I’ll vote the guy most likely to understand what happened on 9/11. You can tell it changed him in dramatic ways.

JeffR

Voting for a guy so stupid he put our emergency crisis center in the WTC (resident at the time). A guy so stupid, he said (alleged) thank god George Bush is our president? (what, with the not doing anything to prevent 9/11 and all…) A guy so stupid he doesn’t even understand terrorism (see debate: attacks Ron Paul for saying something absolutely true.–translation:Rudy hasn’t read 9/11 report, hasn’t researched enemy who attacked his headquarters.)

Disclosure: I voted for Giuliani. Twice.

lumpy,

Kudos to you for admitting your voting record. Good choice.

However, no one is fooled. You oppose him strictly on the grounds that he is running for the White House.

I’ll wait for someone else to bring those specific allegations against Rudy before destroying them.

My time is wasted on you.

JeffR

[/quote]

He said it himself at Rep.natl.conv.(alleged is because he’s probably lying about actually saying it.)
and did you see the debate?

And I oppose him because of 9/11 and his support of Iraq post 9/11–in short, because he doesn’t get terror anymore than the president. Keep in mind, I believe he’s lying about Iraq now purely for those votes from the 28 percenters. He’ll pull us out faster than Hillary–still being a stupid liar isn’t something I opt for first in an election.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
100meters wrote:
JeffR wrote:

I’ll vote the guy most likely to understand what happened on 9/11. You can tell it changed him in dramatic ways.

JeffR

Voting for a guy so stupid he put our emergency crisis center in the WTC (resident at the time). A guy so stupid, he said (alleged) thank god George Bush is our president? (what, with the not doing anything to prevent 9/11 and all…) A guy so stupid he doesn’t even understand terrorism (see debate: attacks Ron Paul for saying something absolutely true.–translation:Rudy hasn’t read 9/11 report, hasn’t researched enemy who attacked his headquarters.)

Disclosure: I voted for Giuliani. Twice.

Kerry lost…Mr. ‘Shoot-yourself-in-the-ass-and-get-a-medal’ lost (a guy at my church was a Swifty and knows the whole story). Get over it already.
You’re getting as bad as Wreckless with your frothing hatreds.

[/quote]
Hmmm…I’m not sure what Kerry has to do with my previous Mayor’s stupidity?

Also, unlike the swifties, everything I said is true (crisis center was in WTC, did belittle Paul at debate, I mean you could probably google it, then apologize later—I of course accept in advance.)

I’m sending ten dollars to Rudy’s campaign tonight, just to encourage him. Hell, Rudy needs some encouragement, he had a bad week. He dropped from 1st place to third place in Iowa, in one week. The more people see of Rudy, the more they dislike him, so things are just going to get worse.

I really hope Rudy is the GOP candidate. He’s hopeless!!! He doesn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell.

But I have to give Jeffy props for thinking outside the conservative box, by backing a big city liberal east coast pro-gay, pro-abortion, pro-gun control candidate.

Go Rudy!!!

Rudy isn’t getting the nomination. He may be grabbing media attention at the moment, but he won’t get the nomination. It’s probably going to be Fred Thompson or Romney. Personally, I think Thompson will jump ahead quickly, once he enters. Sorry, but Rudy is too liberal on too many issues.

Edwards or Obama for the dems. I’m betting Edwards. Oh, and forget Hillary. The democrats can’t be that ignorant to give her the nod.

Hell, maybe Dick Cheney should throw his name into the hat. Why not? Go for it!

Maybe Cheney can ask Rumsfeld to be his VP. I bet that would be the 2008 Dream Ticket for all you guys who still love George W. Bush so much. Since you think Dumbya’s policies are working so well for America, why not keep 'em going for another 8 years?

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Rudy isn’t getting the nomination. He may be grabbing media attention at the moment, but he won’t get the nomination. It’s probably going to be Fred Thompson or Romney. Personally, I think Thompson will jump ahead quickly, once he enters. Sorry, but Rudy is too liberal on too many issues.

Edwards or Obama for the dems. I’m betting Edwards. Oh, and forget Hillary. The democrats can’t be that ignorant to give her the nod. [/quote]

Sloth,

I hope you are wrong.

I’m not necessarily against Thompson. My understanding of his record is incomplete. I only know the bare outline of his career. Two time Tennessee Senator, law degree from Vanderbilt, actor, cancer, Conservative, etc.

However, Rudy has more cross over appeal.

I think the true Conservatives will hold their nose and vote for him. Especially, if hillary, haircut, or I don’t want my minister at my announcement speech are the opponents.

I think Rudy has a good chance to grab some moderates and some slightly left voters.

I’m not talking about lumpy, bradley, or petey.

I’m talking about people who actually vote the candidate.

I don’t know if Thompson could attract the open minded voter.

JeffR

we talking about the Rudy who is blaming a former aide for locating the Emergency Services offices in the WTC, when said aide has a memo proving that Rudy was the one who wanted it there and he (the aide) recommended it go to Brooklyn?

Masterful planner that Rudy.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
We look upon authority too often and focus over and over again, for 30 or 40 or 50 years, as if there is something wrong with authority. We see only the oppressive side of authority. Maybe it comes out of our history and our background. What we don?t see is that freedom is not a concept in which people can do anything they want, be anything they can be. Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do.
? Mayor Rudy Giuliani, 1994

What the hell? I really really hate democrats, but look what the other options are.

mike

I’d like to see more of Fred Thompson, myself. [/quote]

Agreed. He’s the only guy I would actually be happy to vote for. I’ll vote for Paul if I must, but I still believe in Iraq so I would rather not.

mike

[quote]renny wrote:
we talking about the Rudy who is blaming a former aide for locating the Emergency Services offices in the WTC, when said aide has a memo proving that Rudy was the one who wanted it there and he (the aide) recommended it go to Brooklyn?

Masterful planner that Rudy.[/quote]

renny,

You are top 3 in the list of my favorite troll. Number on is the muffin man, number two is bradley, and you clock in at number three.

Therefore, I’ll take on this so-called criticism.

Sounds like hauer has some issues. hauer is the former aide who apparently suggested Brooklyn and then switched his thinking to the WTC.

Sounds like what happened was Rudy stated that he wanted the Emergency Center within walking distance of City Hall. That’s part and parcel of his take charge mentality.

Sounds like hauer took that directive and decided upon the WTC.

Scroll down and you will see how hauer defended his decision to recommend the WTC site.

Therefore, this sounds like more weak criticism from the feces throwers.

Next load please. That was too easy.

[quote]JeffR wrote:
You must understand that walking around with your gun hanging out in public (especially post-911/columbine etc) is going to arouse some suspicion.
[/quote]

Not where I live. Come on down, and wear your gun on your hip. It’s legal, fun and heck, cool. Wee-haw, it’s the wild west out here! Giddeyapp.

[quote]kroby wrote:
JeffR wrote:
You must understand that walking around with your gun hanging out in public (especially post-911/columbine etc) is going to arouse some suspicion.

Not where I live. Come on down, and wear your gun on your hip. It’s legal, fun and heck, cool. Wee-haw, it’s the wild west out here! Giddeyapp.[/quote]

Pretty funny post.

Hey, I personally don’t have much trouble with it.

However, I also understand the other side of the issue.

JeffR

[quote]JeffR wrote:
renny wrote:
we talking about the Rudy who is blaming a former aide for locating the Emergency Services offices in the WTC, when said aide has a memo proving that Rudy was the one who wanted it there and he (the aide) recommended it go to Brooklyn?

Masterful planner that Rudy.

renny,

You are top 3 in the list of my favorite troll. Number on is the muffin man, number two is bradley, and you clock in at number three.

Therefore, I’ll take on this so-called criticism.

Sounds like hauer has some issues. hauer is the former aide who apparently suggested Brooklyn and then switched his thinking to the WTC.

Sounds like what happened was Rudy stated that he wanted the Emergency Center within walking distance of City Hall. That’s part and parcel of his take charge mentality.

Sounds like hauer took that directive and decided upon the WTC.

Scroll down and you will see how hauer defended his decision to recommend the WTC site.

Therefore, this sounds like more weak criticism from the feces throwers.

Next load please. That was too easy.

[/quote]

Recap. Hauer wanted Brooklyn. Rudy said no, gotta get his walk on. Hauer said WTC 7. Rudy says booya. People critisize Rudy for WTC 7. He BLAMES Hauer for following orders.

Right, you don’t see a problem there?

Or maybe the fact that I would like my president to be accountable for the decisions he makes is wishful thinking