T Nation

Why IGF-1 Should Be In Your PCT

I’ve been looking into whether IGF-1 should be incorporated into PCT, during a cycle, or before a cycle.

My initial thinking was before a cycle, for 2 main reasons. First and foremost, since IGF-1 increases satellite cell activity, and myogenic differentiation, I would think that it would be more useful to do this before your cycle, and then use the cycle to encourage growth in the new muscle. Secondly, I know that there is a direct correlation between testosterone levels and GH, which in turn spurns IGF-1 production. My initial thinking was this: since an exogenous source of IGF-1 would encourage downregulation of the receptors, by increasing test levels to superficial levels, one could �??overshoot�?? the downregulation, at least for a short period of time. What I mean by this is, since the downregulation is already taking place, increasing the amount of test in the body, and thus the amount of GH, and thus IGF-1, you would still have enough to activate the receptors, despite the downregulation.

However, I got to thinking once again. For starters, wouldn�??t downregulation for such a long period of time be hard to recover from. Granted, I�??ve heard of pMGF being used as a �??PCT�?? for IGF-1, although I know nothing about pMGF, so I can�??t comment on it. However, my thinking was still the same, that it would be hard to recover. My thinking soon switched, regarding my thoughts on when to use IGF-1. Mainly, I don�??t feel there would be much downregulation in the period where the exogenous test is used. Granted, the test itself is exogenous, but it�??s affects on GH levels should be endogenous. Once again, let me try to explain myself. Although the test itself is exogenous, it would increase production of endogenous GH. As such, it is my personal belief (no, I really don�??t have much proof of this) that an increase in endogenous sources of hormones causes little to no shutdown/downregulation.

Because of this, it would make sense to use the IGF-1 AFTER the cycle, because your body would not be producing the same amount of IGF-1 as before, but (at least in my belief, which I am quick to acknowledge has no scientific backing) would not be as severely shutdown/downregulated. Secondly, I was reading through PubMed and found this excellent piece of advice regarding IGF-1. �??two boys aged 10 and 14 but prepubertal and one 28-year-old fully sexually developed adult. IGF-I was administered by a once daily subcutaneous injection of 150 microg/kg per day to the boys and 120 microg/kg per day to the adult patient…In the two older boys and the adult patient, there was a progressive rise in luteinizing hormone, follicle-stimulating hormone and testosterone.�?? Granted, these were GH resistant people, but regardless, I still feel that the effects could be seen in those recovering from a cycle.

Anyone have any thoughts on the subject? This is my first time really trying to come up witih my own research, and not just listen to what I�??m told. If it�??s completely incorrect, please point out where I went wrong, obviously I�??m in this to learn.

By the way, the study cited was from here…
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=9506862

I have thought about this quite a bit myself. I finally decided that (at least for my next cycle) I would use the pegMGF during during to recovery from my past IGF use and therefore hopefully have continued success using IGF during PCT.

The first time I used IGF was for PCT and I loved it. I was able to continue strength gains and size gains even into my PCT. It is probably more of a mental thing for myself, I no longer fear coming off cycle.

As for yourself if you haven’t used IGF before, why not use it for three weeks in the beginning of your cycle then run pegMGF during cycle and then use IGF again as part of your PCT. Just my .02

The thinking in that guy’s post (it looks pasted) is somewhat correct, though somewhat out there too. From my experience, it comes down to this: If you can afford 1mg of IGF then use it post-cycle. If you can afford 2mg of IFG then use one post cycle and one during cycle. If you’ve got enough money to get the MGF then run it between the two as 2thepain suggested. This is assuming you’ll run 1mg over 3-4 weeks.

IGF is effective both during and post cycle, but you’ll get the most bang for your buck post, but if you’ve got the money then you’ll still get great results during. Every person I’ve known personally to use IGF, myself included, say the results are much more pronounced post cycle, and that if they’ve only got one vial of the stuff then they’ll save it for PCT.

Not that sound defensive, I can assure you this is my own work. I wrote it while I was offline in a word document, and copy and pasted it when I had the internet later. Despite that the fact that it may not be the most amazing post, I’m proud of the work I’ve put into it, and would like the credit (however little it may be).

And 2thepain, the MGF in-cycle was some great thinking. I was wondering if you’ve heard any real world experience.

Sorry Schmazz if my post sounded bad. I assume it was pasted because apostrophes get turned into weird question mark boxes. It’s good reasoning, but I skimmed over it and thought this part was referring to the AR:

[quote]
Although the test itself is exogenous, it would increase production of endogenous GH. As such, it is my personal belief (no, I really don�??t have much proof of this) that an increase in endogenous sources of hormones causes little to no shutdown/downregulation.[/quote]

I see now that it was referring to receptors of GH activity, though it is still a bit flawed in reasoning, at least from my experience. If you raise GH through either direct exogenous means (supplemental GH) or indirect means (supplemental testosterone that raises GH), you would still have elevated GH. Higher levels of GH, induced by any means, will have an effect of receptor sensitivity.

Regardless of this, you nailed everything else and the final reasoning is solid regardless. Again, I am sorry if I seemed negative with my first post. You put in the work and it certainly shows.

[quote]Schmazz wrote:

And 2thepain, the MGF in-cycle was some great thinking. I was wondering if you’ve heard any real world experience.[/quote]

I do not have any real world results from in cycle MGF use, but I intend to use it during my next cycle. I will also be using IGF during my PCT for my next cycle, so if I experience good results again from my PCT IGF use then I will consider the in cycle MGF use to be a success.