i’ve never been impressed with ants. sneaky little critters
[quote]Pinto wrote:
Mass moves mass. The heavier you are, the more stable you are. That’s true whether it’s fat or muscle.
[/quote]
Troof!!
It’s funny actually… I thought 90-92kg was my set point. Then all of sudden I jumped to 96kg about a year ago. I gradually worked my way up to 100kg at around 17% bodyfat. For the last week or two I’ve been trying to drop a bit of fat so I’ve reduced my kcals a bit and upped my meal frequency and protein. I’ve just come off a high volume training phase and am moving towards higher intensity with reduced volume now. The result…? 102kg with the same size waist and bodyfat% this morning. Looks like my body’s telling me it’s not done growing yet. I’m 5’10 for what it’s worth.
Also, look at your points total rather than relative bodyweight lifts (sinclar for weightlifting, wilks or whatever for powerlifting). A 190kg bench at 100 isn’t as good as 200 at 110. Similarly a 280 squat at 110kg is better than 270 at 100 surprisingly.
[quote]Lucid_3ntr0py wrote:
Anyways, does anyone else who does competitive lifts hear this “gain weight” and think it is not only nonsense but also insulting? [/quote]
I think most often when this advice is given its not taken into consideration competitive strength sports where there are weight class considerations. I always hear the ‘gain weight’ advice when referring to general or bodybuilding style workouts.
In terms of moving up an OL weight, I honestly don’t think its worth seriously pursuing until you start becoming competitive in the sport. There is not really such thing as being ‘too tall for a weight class’ until your technique far exceeds your strength levels and thats something that pretty much only elite lifters should worry about.
[quote]dfreezy wrote:
Lucid_3ntr0py wrote:
Anyways, does anyone else who does competitive lifts hear this “gain weight” and think it is not only nonsense but also insulting?
I think most often when this advice is given its not taken into consideration competitive strength sports where there are weight class considerations. I always hear the ‘gain weight’ advice when referring to general or bodybuilding style workouts.
In terms of moving up an OL weight, I honestly don’t think its worth seriously pursuing until you start becoming competitive in the sport. There is not really such thing as being ‘too tall for a weight class’ until your technique far exceeds your strength levels and thats something that pretty much only elite lifters should worry about.[/quote]
uh yeah there is. a 5’4" guy can be a lot stronger at a lower bodyweight then a 6’2" guy. not to mention limb lengths.
[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
uh yeah there is. a 5’4" guy can be a lot stronger at a lower bodyweight then a 6’2" guy. not to mention limb lengths.
[/quote]
What is your point? I think you missed what I was saying…
I think Mariusz Pudzian is a good example of why you should gain weight
Not really. Mariusz is a strongman, not a weightlifter.
I think some things to take into account are:
- How long have you been lifting as a 62?
- How well are you progressing as a 62?
- Would you perform proportionately better at a higher bodyweight?
- Do you have problems recovering from cleans?
Height does give you a rough idea of what weight class should be optimal, but some people are just better lifters in weight classes that aren’t generally suited to people of their height.
Pechalov is 5’6", Naim is 5’0’, both lifted at 62kg. Based on the average heights of other lifters Pechalov should have been a 77, Naim a 56 (ok, he was earlier on, but he lifted better as a 62).
Sagir is “too tall” to be a 77, yet he lifts very well at that weight. Maybe he would lift better as an 85, maybe he wouldn’t, but as long as he’s hammering 95% of the opposition as a 77 there’s probably not much reason to move up. Unless he could annihilate 95% of the 85s too.
Botev lifted as a 110kg lifter at a height of 5’9" - very short for that weight class, yet he C&Jed 260kg and power cleaned 250kg.
Rybakov lifts as an 85, but outsnatches pretty much anyone in the 94s and most of the 105s.
That said, 62 is very light for someone who’s 5’7". You’d probably make a beastly 85 (the weight class Roman roughly suggests for someone of that height), but obviously being a skinny 62 is better than being a fat 85.
I’m not sure about the idea of waiting until you’re “competetive” to move up though. You might not become “competetive” (whatever your defenition of that is) until you move up, or you might move up and struggle at the bottom of the table for a while (as most lifters who move up do at first).
Certainly don’t try and avoid moving up a weight class simply because it’s easy to lift in the lighter one.
Oh yeah, the goal isn’t to be the shortest in your weight class. The goal is to be the strongest, and if you can’t be the strongest then be just as strong as the strongest guy but lighter.
[quote]ninearms wrote:
Not really. Mariusz is a strongman, not a weightlifter.
I think some things to take into account are:
- How long have you been lifting as a 62?
- How well are you progressing as a 62?
- Would you perform proportionately better at a higher bodyweight?
- Do you have problems recovering from cleans?
Height does give you a rough idea of what weight class should be optimal, but some people are just better lifters in weight classes that aren’t generally suited to people of their height.
Pechalov is 5’6", Naim is 5’0’, both lifted at 62kg. Based on the average heights of other lifters Pechalov should have been a 77, Naim a 56 (ok, he was earlier on, but he lifted better as a 62).
Sagir is “too tall” to be a 77, yet he lifts very well at that weight. Maybe he would lift better as an 85, maybe he wouldn’t, but as long as he’s hammering 95% of the opposition as a 77 there’s probably not much reason to move up. Unless he could annihilate 95% of the 85s too.
Botev lifted as a 110kg lifter at a height of 5’9" - very short for that weight class, yet he C&Jed 260kg and power cleaned 250kg.
Rybakov lifts as an 85, but outsnatches pretty much anyone in the 94s and most of the 105s.
That said, 62 is very light for someone who’s 5’7". You’d probably make a beastly 85 (the weight class Roman roughly suggests for someone of that height), but obviously being a skinny 62 is better than being a fat 85.
I’m not sure about the idea of waiting until you’re “competetive” to move up though. You might not become “competetive” (whatever your defenition of that is) until you move up, or you might move up and struggle at the bottom of the table for a while (as most lifters who move up do at first).
Certainly don’t try and avoid moving up a weight class simply because it’s easy to lift in the lighter one.
Oh yeah, the goal isn’t to be the shortest in your weight class. The goal is to be the strongest, and if you can’t be the strongest then be just as strong as the strongest guy but lighter. [/quote]
much better explanation ninearms. Better be a skinny 62 then a fat 85. You might be better in a higher weightclass, you never know til you give it a shot.
It all depends on why you do what you do.
Sure if you gain weight you’ll be able to lift more. But why do you want to lift more. I dont know exact numbers, but would you rather place near the top in your current weight class, lifting 300, or place in the bottom of a higher weight class lifting 400?
To different people, different things are impressive. Seeing a 250 lb guy bench 400 lbs is not very impressive to me. But if I saw a 140 lb girl benching 300 i would be very impressive.
If competition is your goal, then I would only compare yourself to those that you can compete against. Just remember by going up a weight class, your going to have to significantly raise your lifts to stay competative.
Im no expert on competing, but it would be my guess that someone competing at a higher weight class, that only needs to lose a few pounds to go down a class would do much better than someone gaining a few to go up.
Also, think of this. The athletes with the highest relative strength are the lightest. This just shows that the human body is able to achieve very high levels of strength before it needs to increase muscle to increase strength further. Like someone above said, unless your highly skilled and close to the elite level, your height in your class probably isn’t going to affect you too much. Once you plateu, then you should decide whether an increase in muscle mass will help you out or not, but its not necessary until that point.
As for why people tell you to gain weight. Most people dont know what they are talking about, even people on here were saying bigger is better.
A side question for you. In olympic lifting does the top weight class have a weight limit? If not, according to the bigger is better hypothesis, you should see some HUGE guys in there shattering all the records.
Take home point. Olympic lifting is very technical and skill related. The human body can produce incredible amounts of strength even without increasing muscle. Thus perfect your technique, and milk the gains until you are at your genetic limit. Then an increase in weight will be waranted.
The top weight class has no upper limit and all the top guys are well over 105kg. The lightest of the top 105+ guys is probably Chigishev at 123kg, and he’s a freak. Scerbatihs is 20kg heavier than him, Cholakov is a good 40kg heavier, heavier than Reza in fact who sits around 155kg.
What you tend to see is that the top lifts start to level out between the 85kg and 105kg classes (hence why Rybakov’s WR snatch could annihilate almost everyone in all 3 classes), then shoot right back up again once the bodyweight limit is removed.
Its easier to get stronger while gaining weight. If you want to make it harder on yourself then go for it.
dankid, the biggest you see out of guys is a few souls like Andrei Chermerkin, who weighed in around 400lbs near the end of his career, and Mark Henry who was in that ballpark as well. Difference being though, Chermerkin actually won an Olympics.
There might not be a weight limit, but most guys level out between 120-140kg, as you can’t be so big you lose your flexibility.
[quote]romanaz wrote:
dankid, the biggest you see out of guys is a few souls like Andrei Chermerkin, who weighed in around 400lbs near the end of his career, and Mark Henry who was in that ballpark as well. Difference being though, Chermerkin actually won an Olympics.
There might not be a weight limit, but most guys level out between 120-140kg, as you can’t be so big you lose your flexibility.[/quote]
I see, so if I understand some previous posts, the guys in the heaviest weight classes, ARENT lifting significantly more than the lower classes?
Its just my opinion that your goal shouldn’t just be absolute strength. It should be whatever is impressive for you, at whatever weight you want to be. Otherwise you might as well juice up, and get as huge as possible.
[quote]Lucid_3ntr0py wrote:
This is an issue I see popup all the time. People will tell smaller people that they need to gain some weight. As an OL for a little over a year (injured right now) with a snatch of 170 and a C and J of 225, at 136, I just hate people telling me or hearing other people insist you must gain weight. I enjoy finishing my deads at 365 and back squats at at 325. Is there any real reason to gain weight?
I just don’t think I have the body build for it. I am 5’7 and this is my weight. My brother is 5’7 at 215# and the number one in New England for u18 per the New England Open. Different bodies, different builds.
Anyways, does anyone else who does competitive lifts hear this “gain weight” and think it is not only nonsense but also insulting?
The only good reason I have heard to gain weight is to avoid injury.
Thanks[/quote]
You are wrong, thanks.
If you arent commited enough to put the effort in to put yourself in your most efficient weightclass then dont bother. IF you want to be good at weightlifting then maybe you should follow your brothers example.
I’m 5’7" and 202 right now. My strength went up proportionately as my weight went up. I was just at a triple bodyweight deadlift at 148, I’m now at just under 600 at 202. And I’m not cutting like I was then.
I think the concept of relative strength is stupid, since I’m as pound for pound strong as I was and I actually look like I lift weights now.
No, the concept of relative strength is not stupid. Performance in the majority of sports is related (by some extent) with the athlete’s relative strength.
Stupid are the excuses people make, trying to justify their mediocre results, achieved with mediocre efforts.
No matter if it is
“I’m bulking, that’s why I’m at 30% BF”
“My 2.6x 350 pound deadlift is better than your 2.5x 500”
“It’s all genetics, my pecs won’t grow even if, God forbid, I cut the cardio and train 3x week”
[quote]JFG12 wrote:
Besides, how many 100 year olds are 6ft something and 200 something pounds? They are usually smaller, and leaner individuals.[/quote]
Well given, that not too many people are 6ft+ 200+ to begin with … and given that you NATURALLY lose size as you age, so you’d probably have to be at least 6’ 0.5" and ~210ish as an adult to be 6’, 200lb as a senior citizen … and given that not too many in the general population live to 100 in the first place, indeed few enough that I would question whether there is even enough for a statistically significant sample set … I’d conclude that the percentage of 6’+ 200lb+ centenarians approximates the percentage of 6’ 0.5"+ 210lb+ adults.
To the OP, since you seem so dead set on having the best lbs lifted:bodyweight ratio, why dont you try losing weight? I’d be willing to be that having adapted your CNS, as well as your tendons and ligaments to the weights that you are lifting now, you wouldnt lose much in terms of performance even AFTER you lost all your fat and went to work on catabolizing your muscle. So put down that salad, fatty, and start work on dieting down to 120.
Hey, did the 52 kg class survive the reshuffling? Yeah, thats the ticket, 114 lbs @ 5’7" here you come! Maybe you should look into a sex change? After all, if you want to impress people with your bodyweight ratio it would REALLY impress them if you were female. I know I’m always impressed by a girl lifting as much/more than a guy her same size.
Just for fun I checked my “weightlifting encyclopedia” by drechsler, to see if he had anything to say. heaven knows where he got this table of “ideal weightclasses based on height” but according to the table you should be lifting in the 90kg class. Pffft, but what does he know anyway.
[quote]mldj wrote:
No, the concept of relative strength is not stupid. Performance in the majority of sports is related (by some extent) with the athlete’s relative strength.
Stupid are the excuses people make, trying to justify their mediocre results, achieved with mediocre efforts.
No matter if it is
“I’m bulking, that’s why I’m at 30% BF”
“My 2.6x 350 pound deadlift is better than your 2.5x 500”
“It’s all genetics, my pecs won’t grow even if, God forbid, I cut the cardio and train 3x week”[/quote]
Relative strength, in the context of “I deadlift x times bodyweight” IS stupid, on the sporting field it probably holds true, but not in lifting comps. Anybody with any competition experience knows it’s a horrid basis for comparison. If it was a good way to compare lifters then forumlas like Sinclair, Wilks, Schwartz-Malone etc wouldn’t exist.
A 3x bodyweight pull at 242 is MUCH more impressive than 3x at 181. They’re both phenomenal pulls but the latter IS better imo. Regardless of relative strength. I’d even go so far as to say that a 2.75x bodyweight pull by a 242lb lifter is better than 3x at 181.
Oh and KBC, +20 rep points.
[quote]dankid wrote:
romanaz wrote:
dankid, the biggest you see out of guys is a few souls like Andrei Chermerkin, who weighed in around 400lbs near the end of his career, and Mark Henry who was in that ballpark as well. Difference being though, Chermerkin actually won an Olympics.
There might not be a weight limit, but most guys level out between 120-140kg, as you can’t be so big you lose your flexibility.
I see, so if I understand some previous posts, the guys in the heaviest weight classes, ARENT lifting significantly more than the lower classes?
Its just my opinion that your goal shouldn’t just be absolute strength. It should be whatever is impressive for you, at whatever weight you want to be. Otherwise you might as well juice up, and get as huge as possible.[/quote]
WR Snatch for 105kg class is 199kg. Video of Dolega shows him doing 202.5kg in training.
World Standard Clean and Jerk for 105kg class is 242kg. Most guys in the top of the 105kg class are doing 230 or so.
For the 105+ class, world record for the snatch is 213kg (216kg is all time before record re-set).
the clean and jerk is 263.5kg (266 is all time record). Not a big difference? 14kg on the snatch and upwards of 30kg on the clean and jerk.
Now, back in the day of the 110/110+ class, there was a 6kg difference in the snatch and only 16kg in the clean and jerk. Even in the 100kg class then, there was only a 10kg difference in both lifts between them and the 110 class.
Then again it was mostly russians ruling those class’s in those days. Olympic lifting is not Powerlifting, the heaviest man is most of the time, not the best suited to win. You have to be fast, flexible and powerful. Now, you can’t be all three and weigh 400+ lbs. Hence why you see most people in that class level off around 300lbs or so.