Closer to the collar bone. It never really feels great, but the hurt will go away.
[quote]Mutu wrote:
Will this get better, or am I holding it in the wrong spot? Should the bar be up on my shoulders, almost on my collar bone, or should it be lower, around where the bicep-shoulder meet?[/quote]
between your anterior (front) delt and collarbone is the sweet spot. try the wrist wrap trick mentioned earlier instead of the arms crossed. IMO arms crossed sucks ass. the wrist wrap trick gives way better control. theres a pic of it in some poliquin article on this site I just couldnt find it.
I do front squats because my lower back comes into play way to much with the back squat. I have no idea what people are talking about when they say front squats are for your quads. I just push though my heels and the next day it is my hams, glutes and groin that are sore.
Front squats make me perfectly straight all the way down, and all the way up. I see a lot of people at my gym, that think they can squat with a big plate on each side. Every single one of them bends to far forward in my humble opinion. One thing I find dangerous about front squats is when you start reaching cardio exhaustion. I find my upper body starts to get weak during the last sets.
I actually find front squats better on my knees than back squats. I do ATG Front squats every week but have to do more of a powerlifting style, wide back squat to just below parallel on back squats because of my knees. ATG back squats kill my knees.
And this is pretty terrible coming from an 18 year old.
[quote]Frank Castle wrote:
Mutu wrote:
Will this get better, or am I holding it in the wrong spot? Should the bar be up on my shoulders, almost on my collar bone, or should it be lower, around where the bicep-shoulder meet?
between your anterior (front) delt and collarbone is the sweet spot. try the wrist wrap trick mentioned earlier instead of the arms crossed. IMO arms crossed sucks ass. the wrist wrap trick gives way better control. theres a pic of it in some poliquin article on this site I just couldnt find it. [/quote]
I don’t see why people always bash the crossed arm grip. Is there an actual reason why people shouldn’t use this technique?
I have to go crossed arms for front squatting. I simply can not hold it in a clean position. My wrists are not that flexible, at all. It’s crazy painful if I try to do it.
On an odd note, I can front squat about the same weight as I can back. Haven’t figured this one out yet. Maybe my back squat form is bad.
[quote]CantStop wrote:
I don’t see why people always bash the crossed arm grip. Is there an actual reason why people shouldn’t use this technique?[/quote]
It doesnt really matter if you use the cross grip and never plan on doing any olympic lifts. If you want to do cleans and snatches, you need to practice the appropriate grip, be it overhead squats or front squats.
[quote]NAUn wrote:
I actually find front squats better on my knees than back squats. I do ATG Front squats every week but have to do more of a powerlifting style, wide back squat to just below parallel on back squats because of my knees. ATG back squats kill my knees.
And this is pretty terrible coming from an 18 year old.[/quote]
Get a form check your young to be having such pain
The cross arm grip I believe always will hurt your shoulders especially when you get higher in weight. You dont get locked in like you do with the olympic style. I say just suck it up and keep working on it.
But I am telling you this. I think most people that have trouble with “wrists” are having trouble with forearm tricep and shoulder flexibility, skill of doing the lift and lack of ability to stay erect and just sink down, my wrists on not that much more flexible now, it has to do with all of the above factors and more I bet. Just dont give up on it.
There are not many people I know that do the cross arm grip without using towels or pads to protect their shoulders, no one uses these doing olympic style.
[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
The cross arm grip I believe always will hurt your shoulders especially when you get higher in weight. You dont get locked in like you do with the olympic style. I say just suck it up and keep working on it.
But I am telling you this. I think most people that have trouble with “wrists” are having trouble with forearm tricep and shoulder flexibility, skill of doing the lift and lack of ability to stay erect and just sink down, my wrists on not that much more flexible now, it has to do with all of the above factors and more I bet. Just dont give up on it.
There are not many people I know that do the cross arm grip without using towels or pads to protect their shoulders, no one uses these doing olympic style.[/quote]
Agreed, I suck it up and do the olympic grip. I have grown to love it…
I love doing heavy front squats with the olympic grip. I like them better than back squats, though I know back squats are supposed to be the ‘better’ exercise.
The wrist thing is never a problem for me if I keep the form correct. If I keep my upper arms parallel to the floor, my wrists are fine. Once I start going heavy, however, I have to take care, cause I tend to let my arms slide down, and then the wrists hurt like hell.
[quote]Inner Hulk wrote:
I have to go crossed arms for front squatting. I simply can not hold it in a clean position. My wrists are not that flexible, at all. It’s crazy painful if I try to do it.
On an odd note, I can front squat about the same weight as I can back. Haven’t figured this one out yet. Maybe my back squat form is bad.[/quote]
I find the better the form the less weight I can lift. Maybe your back squat is good and your front squat is bad?
[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
The wrist flexibility is always an issue, and the problem is that many people get dead set on doing front squats and their wrists need time to accomodate the front squat position. A few things:
1- Do not go heavier than you can do with good form. This may seem obvious but it is very important with front squats.
For many people they will think they are comfortable with the wrists but actually doing the squats still bother the wrists, this is because you need to stick with a weight you can do keeping your torso erect and the weight on your shoulders.
When you start to sense the weight bearing on your wrist more, in my opinion this is soley because your torso started to lean and you are not just sitting back and the bar started coming away from your throat and there is more pressure on the wrists. With a good front squat there is very little forward lean relative to the back squat.
This is the most important point. Just keep working on it and your core strength will come around and you will be able to bear more weight.
Someone mentioned alternating front squat and back squat. Excellent Idea. This gives your posterior chain a rest on front squat days and anterior chain a rest on back squat days. The front squat days will also be lighter, and, at least for a damn good while significantly lighter.[/quote]
Hey shadow, good posting bro, and good point about ant/post chains getting rested…
Do you find that they’re good for mass on the quads? I’ve been making steady progress with back squats/DB lunges, and post.chain goodies like rom deads etc…but would like to increase size from the sides…would going back to fronts help this in your opinion?
And I always used to do them cross arm fashion when I was younger, seems like the regular way would give one more control on the bar especially as the weight goes up...but my wrists are not ready for that extreme stretch yet..maybe holding the bar like stated for some amount of time and getting used to it will get that going...
your opinion on the size issue would be appreciated, if you get a chance..or any of the other vets I've seen here can chime in as well..
thanks guys,
ToneBone
I think they’re more fun to do than back squats, and if you can’t get out of the hole, and no spotter is around, it’s much easier/safer to dope the barbell as oppose to back squats.
[quote]InTheZone wrote:
Hey shadow, good posting bro, and good point about ant/post chains getting rested…
Do you find that they’re good for mass on the quads? I’ve been making steady progress with back squats/DB lunges, and post.chain goodies like rom deads etc…but would like to increase size from the sides…would going back to fronts help this in your opinion?
And I always used to do them cross arm fashion when I was younger, seems like the regular way would give one more control on the bar especially as the weight goes up...but my wrists are not ready for that extreme stretch yet..maybe holding the bar like stated for some amount of time and getting used to it will get that going...
your opinion on the size issue would be appreciated, if you get a chance..or any of the other vets I've seen here can chime in as well..
thanks guys,
ToneBone[/quote]
Thanks brother,
Hmm, the size of the legs… Personally I take kindof a long term approach to this myself. I think it is just something that will happen gradually as your strength progresses… you cant really rush it anymore than you can rush getting stronger… You could do alot of high rep sets with pretty heavy weight, but you would get an initial gain in leg size but would not keep getting stronger, so in the end you would not be in as a good a position.
so I advocate the stronger route… I had a tough time with this when I first started lifting, the fact of the matter is your lifts are going to go up in a slow but predictable manner after a certain point of time, and your muscle size will increase in the same manner, I would just concentrate on good form at all costs, and just work on increasing your lifts. You mention from the sides growing? I think doing front squats would definitely help with the vastus lateralis and VMO.
However, if I was just looking for leg size I would probably hack squat instead of front squat. Strict hack squats will put mass on the quads very quickly. But IMO I think this is somewhat a waste of time in that you could have been working on increasing your wrist flexibility, core strength and ability to do a much harder lift…
[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
InTheZone wrote:
Hey shadow, good posting bro, and good point about ant/post chains getting rested…
Do you find that they’re good for mass on the quads? I’ve been making steady progress with back squats/DB lunges, and post.chain goodies like rom deads etc…but would like to increase size from the sides…would going back to fronts help this in your opinion?
And I always used to do them cross arm fashion when I was younger, seems like the regular way would give one more control on the bar especially as the weight goes up...but my wrists are not ready for that extreme stretch yet..maybe holding the bar like stated for some amount of time and getting used to it will get that going...
your opinion on the size issue would be appreciated, if you get a chance..or any of the other vets I've seen here can chime in as well..
thanks guys,
ToneBone
Thanks brother,
Hmm, the size of the legs… Personally I take kindof a long term approach to this myself. I think it is just something that will happen gradually as your strength progresses… you cant really rush it anymore than you can rush getting stronger… You could do alot of high rep sets with pretty heavy weight, but you would get an initial gain in leg size but would not keep getting stronger, so in the end you would not be in as a good a position.
so I advocate the stronger route… I had a tough time with this when I first started lifting, the fact of the matter is your lifts are going to go up in a slow but predictable manner after a certain point of time, and your muscle size will increase in the same manner, I would just concentrate on good form at all costs, and just work on increasing your lifts. You mention from the sides growing? I think doing front squats would definitely help with the vastus lateralis and VMO.
However, if I was just looking for leg size I would probably hack squat instead of front squat. Strict hack squats will put mass on the quads very quickly. But IMO I think this is somewhat a waste of time in that you could have been working on increasing your wrist flexibility, core strength and ability to do a much harder lift…
[/quote]
Well I agree with your line of reasoning 100%, just hadn’t done them to any regular degree in years…I’ve been quite happy with my progress over the last two years training at home…I got so sick of the status quo nerdlings that seem to populate the gyms today, that I invested about 12,000.00 in the home gym.
It’s pretty awesome, about the only thing I don’t have is any leg press/hack squat machine. But I’ve made good solid gains in size and cuts with simply doing my back squats, and heavy DB lunges and leg extensions, with a lot of roman deads, stiff legs, and leg curls on the hammy side of things too…
I have to say that I was just curious about the front squats again after all the progress I've made...I think the idea of rotating the two is solid...and I will probably give that a go..I need to see how bad the wrist situation is, as I learned by doing them cross armed...I'm going out there now to see how that feels..
what do you make of the front squat "tools" ie: the Manta Ray etc..? do you think those are any good.?
I must say the one thing I have noticed is with the arms crossed method, once you add the weight they do indeed feel not so great on the delts..
thanks for the help and you say the vastus lateralis, and the medialis are hit pretty well?
So sounds good, I'm very happy with the results I've been getting from doing the heavy DB lunges after squats...
At first it was a bear, but have it down now, and they have really started to take off with regards to added size and definition…
thanks for helpin out again,
best, Tonebone
[quote]NAUn wrote:
I actually find front squats better on my knees than back squats. I do ATG Front squats every week but have to do more of a powerlifting style, wide back squat to just below parallel on back squats because of my knees. ATG back squats kill my knees.
And this is pretty terrible coming from an 18 year old.[/quote]
Sometimes knee problems are genetic. I’m 19 and I get frequent joint pains, but so has the rest of my family their whole lives.
-dizzle
[quote]InTheZone wrote:
best, Tonebone[/quote]
I dont like the tools myself. I think of it this way. How many different body types and people have successfully olympic lifted with no problems? And so I am sure thousands of people have been through the same issue I am having right now with the wrists. Dont give up bro. But I will tell you this.
You wont be using weight that will help build your legs while front squatting until you get the wrist issue resolved. Just wondering what do you usually front squat and also what do you back squat? Just want to get an idea of some numbers.
[quote]detazathoth wrote:
I think they’re more fun to do than back squats, and if you can’t get out of the hole, and no spotter is around, it’s much easier/safer to dope the barbell as oppose to back squats.[/quote]
that’s enough reason to switch - i suspect even light squatting is not the best idea without spotter or power rack.
i’d guess many here have done squats having first clean and push pressed the bar over their heads and without a power rack or very good squat stand there arent many (safe) options. I know my ‘behind the neck push press after oxygen depleting 20 squat reps’ is nothing like what i’d dare try inside a power rack so i’m a convert. I’ll practice front squats.
[quote]detazathoth wrote:
I think they’re more fun to do than back squats, and if you can’t get out of the hole, and no spotter is around, it’s much easier/safer to dope the barbell as oppose to back squats.[/quote]
Agreed. I’ve just started doing wide, ATG front squats with a crossed grip and I’m starting to love them. The core work is exhilirating.
Also I think the crossed grip looks cooler lol.